The main difference between the NYM and the B-Series is the extra details put into the NYM. The NYM is as close to a B-Pro as you can get without the extra money. It comes with extra detail stitching on the trailing edge, folded and sewn leading edge ends to prevent fraying and multi panel layout for a wide variety of designs.
The other advantage to the NYM is the way that Rev has incorporated the venting options. The B-Series is only available in a single, mid-vent or full-vent. The NYM is available in, Single Dual-Vent or Triple-Vent, all available in the same color designs for uniform looks with multiple kites. All NYM kites are also shipped with the deluxe "Green Race Frame" for light weight and exceptional durability.
The NYM is also Rev's latest and newest design.
As mentioned above though, both of these kites are excellent and are capable of doing every trick in the book. You will be very pleased with the B-Series or the NYM.
One thing to remember...if you want your wife/girlfriend to fly with you then NEVER NEVER NEVER have her reset your kite for you if you crash. In fact, when she is learning it is your job to set it all up and then remain at the kite end resetting the kite for her while she learns.
Two or three times chasing after your kite while you stand there waiting to fly will teach her that kite flying is NOT what she wants to do.
Just an FYI, all REV's are packaged with LPG lines from the factory, LPG is the only line that Revolution sells with their kites. Even the EXP comes with them. The thing to be aware of is that Revolution sells REV's packaged in a couple different ways. One is the full package which includes lines, handles and everything you need. The other is the full package without lines, a lot of shops like to order this way because they use their own lines instead of the more expensive REV LPG lines. That is not to say that the shop is using inferior line, they may just as well be supplying LPG lines as well but it can be less expensive for the shop to wind their own lines in house instead of purchasing them from Rev. The shop could also be supplying inferior lines and calling them LPG (very poor business practice but I know of some shops that do this). The third option Rev offers it's dealers is a Kite Only option. This is usually the kite and storage sleeve only. No lines or accessories included. All of Revolution's packages have the full complete package available (with lines) except the B-Series package. Rev only offers this package as a full kit minus the lineset. The reason is that most pilots will have a desirable line length they are wanting, either 120 ft for team flying or 75ft or 50ft for personal flying...or something totally custom. Now it is possible for your local shop to order the B-Series package and have Rev include a lineset with the package, but Rev only does this on special orders.
When purchasing from your kite store, you should always ask what lines are being supplied with the kite and where the lines are from. A Wind Of Change ONLY carries LPG or Shanti lines for our dual or quad line kites, our complete packages come from Revolution with OEM Revolution supplied lines. With some of our other packages (B-Series and NYM) we offer one or the other to our customers depending on what they desire. Although I personally like the Shanti line better, I usually always recommend the LPG line for Rev's when there is a possibility of team flying. This minimizes possible conflicts when it comes to line type and other pilots.
As far as choosing between the EXP now and the B-Series later, keep in mind that an experienced pilot on an EXP would most likely out-fly a inexperienced pilot on a B-Series Pro. There isn't anything you can't do on an EXP that you can do on the B-Series. The B-Series just does everything a lot smoother. The biggest difference is that the B-Series comes packaged with two complete framesets, which basically gives you two kites for the price of one. With the 2wrap frame, you get a very nice UL kite that will fly down into the 2-3 mph wind range and with the 3 wrap or Race Frame you can fly in standard winds up to 18-20 mph. Because of that, I would definitely hold out for the B-Series over the EXP.
1) Most versatile kite all depends on your winds. We have found that the most used kite is the standard full sail. If the winds in your area are a little stronger than average, then the mid or even the full vent will be the one you want.
2) Wraps vaguely refer to the amount of wraps used to make the frame/rods of the kite. A 2 wrap rod will have two wraps of carbon. A 3 wrap rod = 3 wraps, etc....etc... Although there are many unique and secret processes used to layer up a Revolution rod, that is the basics and reason as to their labeling. The more wraps of carbon, the heavier the rod will be. So for the lightest of winds, the 2 wrap rods are used as they are the lightest but also the most delicate. For strong winds, the 4 wraps are used because they are the strongest.
3a) Frames can be interchanged in a Rev super easy and usually in less than 1 minute. With the ability to change frames so easily, you can extend the wind range of your Rev or even change the handling characteristics of it by swapping one frame for another. As an example, for the lightest of winds you will most likely want to put in a 2 wrap frame (lightest of all Rev frames). For stronger winds, the 3 wrap or even the super strong 4 wrap frames. Having multiple frames is like having 2 different kites, changing to the light frame will be like an UL or SUL model. Moving to the stronger frames will be like having a standard model. Frames can be purchased separately in all different wraps / types.
3b) Yes, you can mix n match all frames for the 1.5 series kites to personally customize the feel and performance of your Rev. Most pilots just go with one frame-set model at a time though.
4) I would recommend starting with the basic handles. If you can spring for a little more money then the no-snag handles are nice but not necessary for beginners. Handles come in different lengths as well. What length is best depends on personal preference. Some like the longer ones, some the shorter ones. Nearly everyone I know uses the standard 13" handles that comes in the package.
Race Rods are not handles, but another designed Frame for your Rev. The Race Rods come in only one wrap version and are made from a different modulus carbon fiber material that has a quicker "spring-back" rate. Meaning that when the frame is loaded and stressed in a hover, it will spring back into shape faster than the other carbon giving the kite a faster acceleration - hence the name Race Rods.
5a) Lines are always a personal preference. Longer lines give you a much larger area in the sky to play with and somewhat slow the kite and control down a little. Shorter lines make the kite respond quicker and give you less area to play with. Which is better? That's like asking someone what color is prettiest.
5b) I fly nearly all my Revs on 90# lines. The exception would be the Blast & larger kites and the Shockwave & Supersonics. Those I fly on stronger lines. For the EXP, 1.5, B-Series and the New York Minute models....most you will probably ever need is 90#. If you happen to be on a Full Vent kite as your most used kite, you may want to up to the 150# lines but I fly my full Vents on 90 as well. For stronger winds, heavier lines will have very little effect on the kites performance. Usually the lighter winds is when line weight comes into question. Some will use 50# lines for the lightest of breezes.
6) Yes and no. In stronger winds the Rev's will give some pull. Most of the time the pull is what I would consider light to moderate. The exception would be the Sonic or Shockwave and of course the larger Rev's like the Blast and 2-4 or the monster 4-8. The speed series and blast series can give some pretty serious pull. The 1.5 series and the Rev 1 are very light to moderate pull.
7) Lots of information on this forum. Spend some time searching around and you will learn more than you imagine.
8) Rev's are super fun to own and fly. It is not often that a person wants to sell, but keep an eye out and you can find some pretty good deals on them. Be very cautious about e-bay as there are aftermarket knock-offs being sold on there which claim to be reputable Rev dealers and have authentic Rev kites....but they are junk and will not fly properly. When buying used, try to buy from reputable people and make sure you are getting a genuine Rev product.
9) The control you get from a Rev is absolutely amazing. Even on the SuperSonic or Shockwave which are lightning fast and have some pretty good pull, the control will blow your mind. Search Youtube for Supersonic Rev videos. I think you will be amazed. Even the larger Blast series kites have amazing control. The best precision and control will always be the 1.5 series (EXP, 1.5, B-Series and NYM) or even the Rev 1 which is also amazing.
10) Again check out the different models. Usually the best control and precision is done in the lighter winds. As the winds pick up, so does performance and speed in the Rev's. A master pilot will have the same awesome control in higher winds as lighter winds but normally as wind increases, control and precision will begin to decrease. Skill will overcome that though.
Hope that answers your questions. As mentioned above, the best way to learn about the different models is to find other Rev pilots and have a go on their kites or even see them first hand. That is always best.
Good luck....and remember, you can't just get one. LOL
Even though they both look the same, and the frames are interchangeable, there is a huge difference in overall performance and control from the EXP to the B-Series. As far as flight, there is not that much of a difference, the controls are exactly the same. The biggest difference comes when you start to hover and do precision controls. The B-Series loads up much nicer and holds its position better. It also gives better feed-back during flight.
For someone who hasn't flown much, the difference is very minimal. For someone who has flown a lot and really knows how to fine tune the kite the difference is quite a bit and well worth the extra cash.
I would say there is less difference between the B-Series and the B-Series PRO (which is somewhat less) than there is between the B-Series and the EXP (which is quite a lot).
The Sonic can have some pretty good pull to it, especially when it loads up and is in the stronger winds (above 8mph). I wouldn't fly it on anything less than 150#. I also don't care much for it in anything under about 7-8 mph and it really kicks when the winds hit 10. Personally, that's when this kite becomes a rush to fly. Absolutely awesome and fast.....I mean really fast!
85' lines should be perfect. This kite has such a high speed across the window that shorter lines will be a bit more difficult. Longer lines will slow it down a bit and give you much more room in the sky to fly. To each their own though....
I would use your 85' lines and go for it. The Sonic does require a little quad line skill, not one that I would recommend starting out with if you've never flown before. Also, give yourself some time to really get use to it, feather the rear lines and get it locked in and get use to how that feels. With a little time, you may find it as one of your favorite kites to fly. I did.
This question has come up quite a few times on several different forums. This is a copy of a post I did over on the Power Kite forum regarding this same subject.
As far as fishing line compared to kite line - and saying they are the same and kite line is just more because of a niche market....that can not be further from the truth.
Saying fishing line is the same as kite line because they are both made from HDMPE fibers (spectra/dyneema) is like saying a $10 bicycle tire is just as good as a $300 steel belted racing radial tire because heck, they are both made from rubber!
Even though fishing line and kite line are both made from spectra fibers, that is the only thing that is the same. Spectra fibers are the size of a hair and are carefully braided and re-braided to form kite lines. The way they are braided, the pattern in which they are braided, how tight they are braided and the shape they are braided in will determine if it is good enough quality for kite flying (where your life and $100's of dollars worth of kite depend on it) and whether it can be used to haul in a fish.
Braiding kite line takes as much as 100 times more time and up to 30% more line than making fishing line - which is basically designed to be thrown away in the event it breaks or gets tangled. Breakage and stretch in fishing line is expected and assumed. This obviously can not be tolerated with kites. Daniel Prentice of Shanti kites is a very close friend of mine and I have seen what it takes to make both fishing line and kite line and they are no way comparable. Daniel also is the inventor of Spectra kite line and the reason we have both Shanti kite line and LPG.
Fishing line, while it may work for your kite for a while, will not hold up nearly as long, will be more prone to breakage and wear and will never have the performance and durability that kite line has. Kite line is designed to rub against each other with minimal wear, this is because of the special way the braid is made so that the two (or four) lines can slide over each other. Fishing line will create a lot of friction when crossed with other fishing line and will literally melt itself in half, causing breakage.
To add to the above,
Getting into the braiding of the lines, Spectra kite line is braided in several different ways depending on the type and manufacturer, the tightness of looseness of the braid will determine just how easily the other line(s) will slide over it and just how much it will cause friction or heat, which will eventually ruin your lines. Each manufacturer uses a different type of braiding, this is the reason that flying team with different types of line can cause lock ups. Basically one braid on one line will not slide over the braid on the other line causing friciton and lockup. Fishing line uses none of this type of design because it doesn't matter. Fishing line is braided as quickly and as cheaply as possible because it is designed to be thrown away.
Although people do stack vented and non vented kites, it is normally not suggested by Revolution to do so. The different kites do fly differently in the same winds which can cause the stack to not fly quite as good as a stack made up of all the same style kites. All sails will stretch out over time depending on how they are taken care of and what the wind conditions they are flown in. The only time this would be an issue is if you did fly them in a stack, or side by side....but, they would all fly differently anyways so it would be nearly impossible to tell if the difference in flight was caused by the stacking, or by the normal characteristics of the kites designs, or by the use/wear and tear/condition of the kites as they are flown? Will they stretch out differently, yes....what is the consequences of this? They would eventually fly differently when compared to the other. Is this a big deal??? Not really, they already fly differently from each other new from the factory anyways.
In reality, your kites will slowly change in how they perform over a long period of time, that's just how it works. Things get warn out the more you use them. You will adjust your flying skills/styles to compensate for the changes in your kites performance. Sometimes the performance is better the more the sail stretches (think of it as a pair of shoes getting broke in to match your feet as you wear them). I personally don't think the wear-n-tear on the kites being stacked together is going to be any more or less than flying them solo as long as you pay close attention to the wind conditions you are flying them in.
I would suggest going to 150 or 200 for the stack, just to be on the safe side. Breaking your 90# set will do two things that you wont like, obviously it will break your 90# lineset, the other is that now you will need to purchase a new 90# set and then also purchase a 150 or 200# set, costing you twice as much as before.
The center stack line use to be a real pain, but Rev has now helped out with that a ton on the new stack line sets. The center line is specially colored so you can easily identify it from the others. What you want to do is to loop it through the center loop on the front kite, passing the loop through and then pulling the rest of the stack line through so it makes a larks head on the front kite, then just your standard larks head knot on the rear kite on the center loop where the knot is. Hopefully this will make sense when you look at it. If not then let me know and I may be able to get some pics. The new stack line kits should have the full instructions in them on how to do this.
Usually the more rev's you stack, the more sluggish the kites become. They also pull like a truck, especially when you start to get over 4 kites. Even my 5 stack of Rev II's can have some solid pull in them when the winds pick up.
For a 6 stack, I would suggest a minimum of 250# lines, I have 300# lines on my 8 stack of 1.5's. I have buggied with it in 10 mph winds. LOL
There are a lot of tuning you can do, most of the tuning is to get the stack to follow correctly and get more precision out of it. I have found on nearly every stack I have done that you will need to pull in the top lines at least 2 inches, probably more like 3 or 4 inches to get the best control and ease the pull. This lets you fly without ripping your arms out of their sockets, but more importantly, makes the stack behave much easier. Without pulling in the tops, the stack will always try to flip on you when hovering or stalling/landing. Small stacks like 2 or 3 can hover pretty good when tuned in properly, more kites than that then you will probably not want to try hovering them at all.
Tuning in the stack can take a very long time to do but it is soooo worth it in the end. Start with all stack lines equal (*except the center ones, those are always going to be different depending on how you attach the front kite to the next and so on). Fly the stack and then adjust the lines as you see necessary depending on how the kites are behaving. Usually I pull in about .5 to 1 inch on the very last kite bottoms, this usually helps with the 'chasing' and keeps that last kite more in check. That's a good place to start and then work forward as needed.
As for frames, with a 6 stack you may need to beef up the front kite or two with either the 4 wrap SLE rod, or contact me and we can work with Rev to custom build you a couple stiffer rods, like 6 wraps or something. The reason you need to beef up the front kite (or two) is because all the other kites are hanging off of the front one and it is in a constant tug or war between the flying lines and the rear kites. This puts a ton of stress on the frame. If stacking less than 3 kites then you can usually use whatever frames the kites come with, more than that you may need to beef them up. As you are stating lightly, meaning light winds (I assume), you may not need the extra strength frames, but if a gust hits you may be in trouble.
Hope this helps, let me know if you need any other info and I will help out as much as possible.