Just a note for any newer pilots that are thinking of joining the event - I recently was on the FB posting for the event, and David K posted a diagram of the kite & pilot positions that do not require any inverted hovering. Take a look at the FB event here: https://www.facebook...14867438580073/ and I think the diagram is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down (as I write this today).
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goestoelevenMember Since 16 Dec 2010
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skiing, kites, travel
If I must pick, my B-Series vented.
Posted by goestoeleven on 11 August 2013 - 05:46 PM
Posted by goestoeleven on 03 August 2013 - 07:33 AM
Very nice work. It was a bit large to fit on my monitor, but I could get a sense for how the super grid will work with 100. I have flown the grid before, so I'm glad for the refresher.
A thought for the rehearsals and attempt. The leaders/captains of each column should put some thought into the skill levels of the various flyers in their column and think about position of each flyer in the grid, especially for the concentric rings and where each flyer will end up in the ring. Experienced flyers will probably not have a problem hovering in "unusual" attitudes or positions in the window, but there are some positions that may be challenging or outside the normal experience. In particular, I'm thinking about the position of a hover in the ring and the position of the flyer relative to the wind window. Here's what's going through my head. Let's say you are OK with flying the upper left corner of a ring, which puts your kite into the upper left side of the wind window, while hovering left wing low, right wing high if you are facing out. In the 100 grid, if your column is on the far left and you are at the upper left corner, then you'll still be required to hover left wing low, right wing high - but now it will be hovering high on the right side of your wind window, which is a somewhat unusual position in normal group flying if you were in a ring. Perhaps minor, but when thinking about each column, I think the captains (and each pilot) need to make sure each flyer is in the right position for both "normal" and unusual situations for their abilities and the wind window.
My two cents. Worth what you paid for it. I'm probably over-thinking this thing. Be better once I'm out there flying. Hope the porta-potties are closer this year. My best piece of advice to first timers - go to the porta potties before the rehearsals and/or attempts start . . . . other than that, relax and have fun!
P.S. - If you are newer, and only have time to learn one thing, learn to hover well vertically (facing both left and right). I find it's generally an easier position to hold for newer flyers in varying wind conditions than either right side up or upside down. Plus, with the big grid, left and right threads are common, and there are positions for you to fly (even in the rings) that will only have a vertical hover, so we'll find a spot for you. I was you in 2011 - less than one year flying at that point, and I joined the grid (not that I'm that much better now). John even made fun of me for not going to the porta pottie first.
Posted by goestoeleven on 14 June 2013 - 08:48 PM
Update from Illinois . . . at current count I think we'll have at least six or seven Illinois Kite Enthusiast (IKE) members from Illinois at WSIKF to participate in the grid, and several other IKE members from other states as well. We're hoping to fill a whole column of IKE members.
- Theresa likes this
Posted by goestoeleven on 11 February 2013 - 06:48 PM
You'll just be looking at your kite and the kites right around you.
Except when you get distracted and forget which one is yours . . . ooooh . . . . look at all the pretty kites . . . . Happened to me this year at TI when we had about 17 revs just doing follows and pez and other random stuff . . . . "hey, what are those kites at the other end doing and they should join or get out of the way" followed by "hey, who is the idiot messing up the line" . . . followed by "oops, that would be me." Don't worry, have fun. You will have fun. Hang out, fly revs. Join the big groups. It's all good. No, seriously, it is really all good.
Actually, it's probably easier to focus when you are brand new as you are so worried about messing up that you really pay attention to your own kite, plus you've been flying all day without taking a bio break . . . so you are more "focused" as a result. And the rest of us don't care if you mess up - we've all been there and will be there again.
Keep flying, have fun. See you at WSIKF!
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Posted by goestoeleven on 19 August 2012 - 08:16 AM
First - Welcome to the dark side (quad line rev flying), and welcome to the forums!
I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice here . . . I'll give you my opinions on your questions, for what it's worth (which might be just what you paid for them .
I'm sure I'll get some disagreement here about this answer . . . . IMHO, there are no bad Revs currently available on the market (although I've heard there was at least one back in the late '90s). Some are significantly better than others, to be sure, but as a beginner you will probably do fine with any kite from an EXP all the way up to a B-Pro. I still fly my EXP a fairly significant amount of the time, depending on conditions and what I dig out of the kite bag on any given day.
When you are first learning to fly Revs, you are getting started on the basics of technique, and it will take a while to master the finer points. The analogy I'll make is a driving one - which car is more appropriate for a beginning driver - a used family sedan or a brand new 911? While it might be great to learn to drive in a 911, my take is that the new driver won't appreciate the nuances of performance available when they are first starting. In addition, there are plenty of tuning possibilities with all the kites that significantly affect the performance of the kite in different conditions - and you've hit on two with your questions about the spars and the venting. You can also tune the kite with how you set the handle leaders (more on that later) and length of your line set. These changes to your setup will have a much greater impact to your learning and performance when you are first learning than which kite you buy (i.e. EXP/1.5/B/B-Pro).
Now, some may argue that starting with a B-Pro is the right answer, since it's such a great kite. While the B-Pros are exponentially better than the EXPs in terms of construction and how the kite responds to your inputs, as a beginner I think it is unlikely that you will appreciate the differences unless you plan to work on your flying nonstop for weeks. I've been flying quite a bit for the last two years and I feel like I'm just getting to the point where I can really appreciate the differences (although the construction of a Pro is clear right away). That said, the construction of other kites (like the EXP or 1.5) is perfectly good for many years of flying. The strongest argument for starting with a B-Pro is the reason we call it the dark side . . . once you're hooked, it's an addiction, and you'll end up with multiple B-Pros sooner or later anyway.
While this may not help, I think you could go with anything from the EXP to the B-Series (or even a Pro), and you'll be fine. I'd stay away from the speed series (like the Shockwave or Supersonic) until you have learned some technique as they have a steeper learning curve for a new pilot. Keep in mind, you'll also need to buy handles and line sets, so your budget needs to plan for that cost as well. If you really want to stretch your budget, I will tell you that my first Rev was purchased used online . . . but the addiction has led to purchases of quite a few additional kites both new and used (some since sold off). Getting your first Rev tends to lead to the need for more . . . and that leads to your next topic(s).
Sails and venting: Most of the time, the first Rev is a full sail kite. The full sail covers the most common wind conditions, and so it's the natural first choice. There are also various levels of venting - from mid vent (one set of vents), full vent (two sets of vents) and extra vent (multiple panels replaced with vents). The other full sail kite is the SUL, where the sail is marginally lighter than a standard full sail kite, so it's better for low wind situations. My second rev was a full vent, which really smooths things out when the wind picks up. I don't have a mid-vent or a mesh yet, nor do I have an extra vent. I have a couple SULs (which are full sail kites with lighter sails), but IMHO as your technique improves, skill will have a bigger impact on your capability in low wind than the sail / spar combination.
Spars: 2/3/4 wrap (and SLE) spars refer to the number of layers of carbon fiber in the spar. More layers = more weight, stronger, and greater stiffness / less flex. Don't get the SLE leading edge, which is a big, heavy spar that's very stiff. I think it's useful for certain situations, but it's heavy and stiff, which can make it harder for a beginner to get the kite in the air. Several of my Rev friends suggest using the SLE leading edge as tomato stakes in the garden. I think the vast majority of Revs are flown with 3-wrap spars, and IMHO it's the best spar for a beginner. As you improve, you'll appreciate the differences with 2-wrap or 4-wrap spars. There are some other specialty spars like Race Rods, which weigh close to 2 wraps but behave like 3 wraps. Again, as a beginner, the subtle differences won't be appreciable. There is/was some confusion between the 1.5 SLE kite and the SLE leading edge. I think Rev recently dropped the SLE designation on the 1.5 kite, which by default came with the SLE leading edge in most kite shops, but you could get always get it with different spars (like the 3 wrap) by working with the shop.
The performance questions you haven't asked about are: line sets and handles.
For handles, as a beginner, it won't matter whether you choose the shorter or longer handles. Most experienced pilots go for the longer handles, but I won't get into why just now. For a beginner, what is important about the handles is that you set up the leaders on the handles to allow you to adjust the "brake" on the kite. You can do this yourself if you get handles without the adjustment leaders - there are several threads here about how to do that. The brake settings can have a very significant impact on the way the kite performs in different wind conditions (regardless of which kite you choose).
For line sets, the most common line length for group flying (which you are going to want to do eventually anyway) is 120 feet. More line length = more wind window, and while most "ready to fly" packages are sold with line lengths around 75-90 feet, you should upgrade to the 120 foot length, if possible. More wind window = more time to react and more time for you to fly in a direction. It's just easier overall when you are first learning. When you get more experienced, you can move to shorter lengths which I now find very enjoyable. You want to go with a good quality line (there are threads on that as well, I won't start a big discussion on brand names here).
As far as where to go to get your Revolution - I can't answer that for the UK. However, I will say that you should buy a real Revolution kite. They are by far the most popular quad line kite, and if you want to fly with others, you will find that most people at festivals and other events are flying Res. Don't buy a Chinese knockoff - the quality is not as good, and it's just plain wrong. Revolution has been successful for a reason - they have the best combination of performance and precision in this space, IMHO. It's why we're all flying them. Oh, and by the way, the Rev community is great, supportive, and very friendly as well!
Final thoughts: The most important thing you can do to learn to fly Revolutions is get together with someone who is already a skilled flyer. If I were you, I'd save on the kite if it meant I had extra money left over to travel to a festival or event and meet other pilots. The biggest improvement to my flying came from meeting and flying alongside other Revolution pilots. Don't be shy - get to a festival or even just make arrangements with your closest friendly pilot. An afternoon with others is better than days of flying by yourself.
Wow. I didn't realize I wrote that much . . . time for other forum members to take apart my answers . . .
Welcome to Revolution!!!
Posted by goestoeleven on 13 August 2012 - 09:06 PM
I agree with what everyone is saying - don't fly the kite until you have talked to Ben or Lolly at Revolution. Ben is out right now (on his way to a festival at Dieppe, Canada), so it may be a few days but you can try to reach Lolly at Revolution.
I see you are in Elgin, IL. There are a bunch of us "Revaholics" in Illinois and Wisconsin. Not everyone in IKE (see my signature below) is on this forum, so you may want to check out our forum as well (you can click the signature to get to IKE, then click the link for the forum). We get together several times a year (at a minimum) to fly kites. We have a club fly / retreat planned for the last weekend in September at the Indiana Dunes, and I know a bunch of us will be flying Revs for a couple days solid - and at several of the festivals in Wisconsin and Illinois between now and then. Flying with others really helps your learning curve if you are new to quad line flying. I'd be more than willing to lend you a Rev at a club fly or a festival to help with your learning curve until you can get your B-Pro situation resolved.
Hope to see you at a club fly or festival soon.
Posted by goestoeleven on 12 December 2011 - 04:56 PM
I cant wait to compete...first chance i get. But why do 1.5 and such almost always beat speed series?
While I defer to others with far more expertise and experience than I, I think part of the answer is the 1.5s are just way more popular than the speed series kites, and therefore you have more competitors focusing on getting really good with that kite. Most people learn on a "regular" 1.5 first, and eventually try out the speed series for a different experience if they really get into flying quad line, but they don't fly it every single day. Even with the 1.5, there's a big investment in flying time to learn the precision and control that are required for the figures and ballet in competition.
I'm nowhere close to the control I'd like to have with a 1.5, so . . . . I should fly every day . Unfortunately, the lack of a nearby beach with smooth wind and . . . a slight "work" and "mortgage" problem keep me from flying all the time. The other aspect is that the standard 1.5 lends itself much more to flying as a group - in part because slower speed allows more people of different abilities to fly close together. With the speed series, you get across the flying window so fast that it would be tough to fly as a group unless you really had some experience.
Now somebody is going to prove me wrong by posting up video of speed series team ballet . . . .
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Posted by goestoeleven on 11 December 2011 - 03:30 PM
Lol...I'm trying but another kite...since Sept 5 I've bought 2 supersonics 1 shockwave 1 mojo 1 quantum and 1 kitty hawk flyer....2 line sets 3 stakes lights and a video from kitty hawk kites... that doesn't include the h q salsa and little cheap kite I bought a couple weeks before that.... I don't think she'll be okay with me spending more money on kites right now. ))) I do want a b series and an indoor asap though. Wish me luck on that 1. Lol
Welcome to the first year of rev flying, it's an expensive year if the bug really bites . . . . I bought a bunch too, but started at the slower end of the spectrum (i.e. 1.5s and a couple Rev 1s). Now I have a couple Shockwaves and a Blast (but I still find I fly the 1.5s far more often as getting to a decent level of precision takes a long time (at least for me)).
I do want a b series and an indoor asap though. Wish me luck on that 1. Lol
Yeah, me too . . . .
You know, this might be sacrilege on this forum, but you might just want to dial your flying back a tiny amount . . . I get a lot of leeway from my wife on this hobby, but I still try to get permission to go flying first. You can always get a new kite, but if you play your cards right, that fiancee will be around longer than any of the kites. Now I have to go make dinner, because that's the deal I made with my wife to get in an hour of flying today. Hmm . . . time to order pizza, I think. Or I'm pretty good with ramen . . . .
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Posted by goestoeleven on 02 December 2011 - 05:43 AM
Posted by goestoeleven on 15 November 2011 - 06:15 AM
The trick with doing an urban clinic is that I can only take 1-2 people out at time due to the nature of the places we fly, and how much personal attention is required to teach in them.
I'm game if folks are interested, you'd learn LOTS, but it'd just be 2-3 of us at a time.
Hmm . . . . so maybe if I can manage to get to Portland . . . .
Posted by goestoeleven on 09 November 2011 - 04:58 PM
This video review is a very good idea.
I will present the performance of my quad teams in Japan.
It's named Wind Ripper.
Please look this perfomance to three judges, and everyone.
Very nice performance, I enjoyed the video. I aspire to the level of precision your team shows.
Just FYI to those with kids . . . . the music did not bother me, but I probably won't let my son watch the video (with the sound on) as there are some lyrics that are not kid-appropriate (at least in my house).
Posted by goestoeleven on 08 September 2011 - 07:39 PM
The first time I flew with the kites, I put the stakes, handles & sails into my checked bag, and put all the spars into a mailing tube.
Next time, I just took Mike's approach - two kites in one sleeve, with an extra set of spars. Handles & lines in the suitcase (check-able if needed). I skipped the stakes on that trip so that I could carry the suitcase on the plane if the handles didn't cause a concern at security. No problem, and I just used whatever I could find on the beach or ground for a stake. At one checkpoint, I was asked what was in the sleeve, and then they waved me through.
I've also carried a large extendable "blueprint" tube with several kites in the tube. I figured I'd get no argument since I've seen people carrying documents, and I've never heard a flight attendant tell someone they have to check their blueprints. When I've had that tube, handles and lines go in the suitcase (and I skipped the stakes).
The last trip, I wanted to bring a lot of kites, so I figured I'd chance it with my kite bag. I just brought the whole kite bag with as many kites, handles and line sets as I could fit (I brought extra kites so I could fly with my kids), and carried it right onto the plane with no questions. No problems at security either, with several handles and line sets. Ground stakes were in the checked bag for that trip.
The bag I carry is a 48in Into the Wind carryall bag, so it's fairly "big" as a carry on - certainly longer than any suitcase they'd let you carry aboard. Maybe one day a roll up Rev bag will show up under the Xmas tree . . . .
Posted by goestoeleven on 22 August 2011 - 05:50 PM
Many firsts for us - first time I've been flying at a festival for more than a day, first time watching indoor flying, first time in a group fly larger than eight (once I got up the courage to say hello and join some groups), first time in a mega fly, first time flying in a (beginner's) precision competition, and first time my son (David) got to fly team with JB calling. By the way, he said I need to write his name on the kite he flew with you because now that is "his" kite and it's the one he'll fly from here on out. (also, he's 9 but that's OK).
Many thanks to everyone for your hints, helps, patience and guidance. Hope to be there again next year to see everyone I met and meet some more folks! When I asked my wife when they publish our school district calendar for 2012-2013, she said "you're trying to figure out if you can go back to WSIKF next year, aren't you?" (and she was right).
P.S. - just suggest they merge Field B, C, and D into one super giant rev arena . We practically took over all three fields most of the week anyway.