Do you own a Rev I? Or have access to one? While you're trying out stacks, you might try out a Rev II, Rev 1.5, Rev I progressive stack. The stack lines are the same length on a progressive as they are on a linear, so it would be easy to switch it up using pigtails on the various kites.
Linear stacks are fun to fly (I've also own a 3-kite stack of 1.5s), but the progressives are more enjoyable for the flier. With a progressive, you get to see all three kites while flying. With a linear, you get to see the last kite peek out from the stack once in a while.
1) If Barry's signature is on the kite, then he gets a veto vote on what ever you do. When folks have asked me if a Pro is really worth the money, my response is "When a craftsman signs his work, it's worth it." Please don't dilute that expression of pride.
2) Others might notice the problems, without knowing the back story, and assume the flaking will happen with all Rev kites. Thus, the kites need to be clearly marked as "different" than normal.
3) I like the idea of "donating" them to individuals you see in your travels ... kids who show an interest in kiting and help you out at festivals. Clubs and stores that focus on bring new fliers into the family should also be considered.
4) Sell them? Sorry Ben, but that doesn't feel right ... especially a Pro. I know they're functionally correct, but it just doesn't feel like something a company who prides themselves on quality does.
... Also it looks like I will be here for a long time. ...
First off, welcome to the forum ... especially as a contributor!!
The indoor and the outdoor Revs require different flying skills. You'll not get a huge boost to your indoor skills by hours of outdoor kite practice. Sorry!!!
Why don't you tell folks where in Florida you live ... there are at least three folks in Florida who frequent this forum. You might find someone who lives near you and would love nothing more than to help you become even more infected with the Rev bug. They'll have a much better idea of what flies well in that area of the state. Any one of the three will also give you and opportunity to try-before-you-buy.
Since you've already determined that you'll be flying Revs for awhile, and if you fail to connect with someone, why not save yourself a ton of worry and torture? Simply buy a full sail and a full vent B-series. That will cover 95% of the wind conditions that you'll encounter. The SUL is not a panacea for low winds ... practice and skill is the real secret there. The mid-vent is my favorite kite, but it gets flown less than 10% of the time ... darn winds are either too low or too high. The X-tra vent is a great addition, but it'll be used less than 5% of the time. That leaves only the full sail and the full vent as viable choices. If necessary, you can save a little money by buying the SLE full sail and full vent and still have a great time. However, buying the B-series with the additional frame sets will help you cover a broader wind range.
The B2 is a great kite, but not the best choice for a first kite. The 1.5 has the best balance between speed and precision for developing the muscle memory that's necessary for long time interest.
One of the fastest ways of picking up Rev flying is to get with others. You'll learn more from one afternoon with a group than a month of flying by yourself. Promise! Post the city you live in/near/close to and you might find others nearby. The lower half of Michigan has a very active kiting community ... Dave Bush (AKA regional) would be a good person to contact.
Grand Haven is a good festival to put on your calendar. Come on Friday and the beach will have lots of Revs flying. It's worth the trip just to see Lee Sedgwick and Sam Ritter fly their REV I stacks ... they make it look sooooo easy. Sam did a 360 with his stack last year. iQuad, night flying, indoor flying ... great festival.
It worked like a charm. Now, do I need to add a drop of super glue or epoxy to keep it from slipping back in again. ...
Super, glad it worked for you.
Looks like Jim and Alden gave you good advice. Clean as much of the old stuff as possible, wet the interior of the rod with epoxy (if you use CA, then use some of the new non-brittle stuff), cover the ferrule with epoxy, insert to depth, clean off the ooze and tape till dry. Check it after about 20 minutes ... if some more has ooze out you can still get it off by scraping. If you wait overnight it'll be hard as a rock.
Rev ferrules take a beating, so do all you can to make sure they are glued solidly in place.
The day after Kite Party, Laura took out her Zen to fly since the winds were very light. One of her ferrules was pushed in till it was flush. Neither Jim nor I could get it out on the beach. So, Laura flew all the way across the USA, paid for an extra night at the hotel and couldn't fly the kite she needed just 'cuz of a loose ferrule. Make sure your ferrule doesn't come loose at a critical time.
@Jim ... thanks for the compliment ... better than being called eccentric.
If the rods are not broken, then do this. Take one of your non-ferruled tubes (rod) and align it with the tube that has the pushed in ferrule ... just like it looks when installed in the leading edge. Now tape it very securely in that position. Take the joined piece and imagine that it is an arrow shaft. Now strike the open end firmly on a piece of wood ... like you are going to drive the arrow shaft right through the board.
The non-ferruled tube will support the ferruled tube and provide a place for the ferrule to exit the center rod. Don't worry if it goes too far into the non-ferruled tube, since it's easy to get it out with one end open. If you want to check progress simply insert a thin dowel into the non-ferruled tube to check the position of the ferrule.
PS ... double check the security of the center ferrules every so often ... they do come lose.
Posted by Jeepster
on 14 September 2010 - 08:47 AM
I'm assuming that the line stretching is achieved through of a steady pull rather than jerking action - but is the point of "stretch completed" discernible [other than through bitter experience]? For example, does it stretch noticeably at first, then progressively less until (in extremis) it snaps?
Point of order: Our flying line exhibits both stretch and creep. Since it's a form of plastic, the fibers/weave will permanently yield under load ... ie take a set and not return to its original length ... that's creep. In addition to creep, the line will elongate under load and return to it's original length when the load is removed ... that's stretch and can't be removed.
Said another way: When the line is new, you can pull on it with an increasing load and it will elongate in proportion to the load. However, when the load is removed, the line will not return to it's "off the spool" length. That's creep, and that's what we're trying to remove from new line when making a line set.
If you make up the individual lines independent of each other and don't use a scale to induce the same loads in each line, then you'll have various levels of creep in each line. That will mean lots of adjustment after you've flown for awhile. The alternative is to pair up the upper lines and the lower lines. Remove double the length of the line set off a spool (plus enough extra for all four loops.) Sleeve both ends. Place the loops over a stake/nail/post and stretch out the doubled over line. Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up. Since the sleeves/knots reduce the breaking strength by about a third, your 90# line will now break at about 60# of load. But, since the line is doubled, you can pull with 120# of force before the line will theoretically break. Pull and tug away with abandon ... tugging does seem to assist in increasing the creep. The closer you get to the breaking strength the less post-flying adjustment will be needed.
Now measure the line length plus one times the amount for your loops (don't forget an additional 1/2 inch for each knot you place in the sleeving.) Cut the line there, melt the exposed ends, and sleeve away. I use the sag method to get the lines even. You will be surprised at how much extra line you will cut away ... if you don't pre-creep your lines, this has to come out during the initial flying sessions.
Now make the remaining pair of lines the same way. If you measure the same length before cutting, this pair of lines will be close enough to the other pair for the initial usage. Remember that reasonable differences between top and bottom lines can be adjusted our with your pigtails. After flying in high winds and rotating the top lines with the bottom lines, make your final adjustments ... probably for the life of the lines.
I know it sounds annal, but I absolutely hate to futz with line sets at the flying field. This "work" is usually accomplished in the hallway of our local school during down times.
One of the great advantages of Revs is that you can fly shoulder-to-shoulder with others. That adds an entirely new dimension to kite flying. But, it's best if all parties are flying on the same length lines. 120 is a standard line length for team flying. Check around with other Rev fliers in your area and see what they use for the intermediate line lengths ... 75' to 90' being the most common. The IKE club members have settled on 80' lines as their intermediate length ... Kite Party requires 75' lines ... I think the Brits use 90' lines. Very little team flying is done on the shorter (50' to 60') lines, but some dual flying happens, so ask the locals about that length also. The 20' to 30' lengths are almost exclusively used for individual flying in the lighter winds, so no problems with what ever you choose.
With the winds you're talking about, 90# line will do you well for all lengths. Some others might recommend 50# for the 30' foot line sets. Don't even think about following the power kite tradition of using lighter lines for the bottom pair ... the disadvantages far out weight any advantages!!
If you want to stretch your dollars on lines, you might investigate making your own line sets. There are several good threads here on how to do that. If you can tie your shoe laces correctly, you can probably make line sets. Plus, you'll eventually have to learn to equalize the lengths and that's the hardest part about making line sets. Buy good materials ... Laser Pro would be my suggestion.