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Felix Mottram

Member Since 03 Sep 2007
Offline Last Active Today, 01:59 AM

#75432 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 20 November 2010 - 02:42 AM

An updated ZigZag is now available at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16
The motion is at 24 FPS(Frames Per Second).
A feature for step to next and also step to previous frame has been added.
The attached file has all the rotations listed for the particular ZigZag mentioned above. This might be useful in developing the calls. I used it to insure that there is never more the a 360 degree twist in individual line sets.

This ZigZag has four mini pinwheels incorporated with in it to show one of the many possibilities of the ZigZag start.

Great work John. I'm wondering if the whole thing could be rotated by 90 degrees. I'm also wondering how to morph from the 16 square to the 4 squares vertical or horizontal without the shift prior to the ZigZag.

The other thought now is how to link the moves together in a sequence... <grins>


#75376 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 18 November 2010 - 12:16 AM

Sorry, I have been a bit swamped the last few days on other things.
I did manage to form 4 mini diamonds from the zig-zag and then rotate 90 cw and back 90 ccw. I hope to have more for this, maybe Friday night gmt-8.


No rush, it's not as if there is any time frame!

By the way, my comment about the squares/diamonds in the zig-zag was not completely serious. I look forward to seeing what you have come up with.


#75321 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 15 November 2010 - 11:02 PM

Felix, I was referring only to the Zig-Zag animation that I created yesterday.

Of course! It looks fine but as you say, looks like it is on very long lines. I think that any diagonals will be very much shorter in practice. Some moves may have to be 'step, stop, step'.


#75308 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 15 November 2010 - 04:08 PM

May I presume that the start of the Zig-Zag is what you were describing?


Not sure I'm following you there. I was not intent on describing anything in particular. Andy had questioned the viability of the 'cross stop'.


#75301 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 15 November 2010 - 12:39 PM

I can see that these manoeuvres look amazing, but - with the cross stop in particular - it looks as if there will be a lot of crossed/pulled strings... To me, the highest risk factor is instability (myself or another flyer) when we are all mutually dependent and there is no clean exit available. Visualising the line crosing and line twists is much more difficult with the 2 dimensional representations available to us, without a lot of real-life experience to back it up.

So I do like David's idea of a Richter Scale for moves - this could be very helpful for encouraging and developing novice teams and MegaFly opportunities. Defining the factors leading to difficulty and a Request For Comment on a Quad-line MultiFlier Richter Scale format could be spawned to another discussion thread? [I'd guess that STACK or other multi-line competition formats have developed some of these elements in the context of smaller numbers of participants.]


The idea of the Super Sixteen came about somewhat spontaneously at Long Beach when conditions became less than ideal for the grid fliers given all their different capabilities. The Sixteen volunteers quickly showed an ability to cope with the light breeze keeping the kites moving across the window and throwing in the manoeuvres as called by Stephen and John B (as I recall).

It seemed a good idea to up the ante and try to develop the framework for a 'performance' that could be presented when a 'sufficient' number of capable fliers were available even if conditions were not suitable for the full grid mega-team. There would be a need to document the moves that could be components in such a performance and invite suggestions. (The same applies to the full grid mega-team obviously.) John M asked me about threading and as The Decs had recently flown the 8 person 'sprocket' his proposed move did not sound completely impossible. <grins>

I think that everyone is aware that wrapped lines and no clear exit route are a significant threshold in the development of the grid mega-team. Getting a core of fliers together who can cope with that situation seems to me to be the way to gain experience and develop the possibilities.

I hope that this makes sense!


#75284 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

OK, I am working on it now. I doubt I will have it done before you bed down for the night. Hopefully I will have the basis when you look here in your morning.

And if we were to switch to the squares at the cross over point, where would we be then?

Thanks John


#75282 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 12:41 PM

Fine, I will create a vertical shift with all starting at the same time moving exactly the same distance.
This is considering that I am of course starting from the vertical columns and not from the ground.

Do you have a name for this maneuver yet? If not, how about zig-zag?

I am already visualizing this moving on into a diamond, maybe as the base figure.

Zig Zag would do fine. I think that holding the Zig Zag at the crossover would be good..

I would consider this to be a 'Diamond' based move.


#75280 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 12:12 PM

I think I will have a slight variation in the timing in that the right columns moves at a slightly different speed as the left columns.
Should I try starting this from the ground with the outer kites moving at varying speeds faster then the inner kites?
Or, should I start it from columns already in the air?

I anticipated a different start time but i think that the flying speed should be the same for the best effect.

Edit. A small shift in the vertical position should be enough.


#75277 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 11:46 AM

Sorry, I must have fried my brain yesterday flying in the sun all day.

I'll have at it and we will see what comes out. It might be what you were thinking or even something else that you might like.

I'll add my sorry as I had then pictured the right columns being the ones starting ahead in the move contrary to how I had described it initially.


#75275 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 11:27 AM

Do you mean they slide horizontally, in a threading fashion, together to form the parallel zig-zags?

Flying forwards...


#75273 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 11:14 AM


How about this attached by way of an answer?


Followed by...


Attached Thumbnails

  • diagonal thread 2.jpg

#75271 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 10:55 AM

Do you mean a 180 radar where half the kites start from the left and the other half start from the right threading between each other at zero.
Then maybe continuing down the opposite sides, 90 on each side followed by a return back to their start point.
Or maybe at zero doing steps 3 and 6 of the Dosey-Do and return to their start point.


How about this attached by way of an answer?


Attached Thumbnails

  • diagonal thread.jpg

#75265 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 08:40 AM

This is precisely why I have chosen to call them concepts.


The process of animating the moves potentially offers insight which would not be available to fliers.

If we go back to the 'Radar' which was a rotation around the lower (or upper) kites could you attempt to draw a thread where the left two columns set off on the diagonal just slightly ahead of the right two columns? There may be a case for making a 'stop point' where the kites are threading. It may be a square. The 'Radars' may need to be vertical!

A slight 'shuffle' into line may be required at the outset for the columns either side.


#75262 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 14 November 2010 - 07:23 AM

John - not sure about the practicality/feasibility of either of these moves unfortunately.
The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.
This new one would also need a huge vertical window to pull it off - in excess of the 10 kite ceiling.

I think that David is probably right but I wonder if a little lateral thinking may be in order here. I was wondering how to 'set up' an attempt on the move as demonstrated by John, as in the two eights. It then occurred to me that 'the thread' may be more viable 'on the diagonal'. 'Windscreen Wipers' are not so far away in my view.

It may be best to leave the more 'adventurous' moves for the time being and focus on the ones that we know are flyable. <grins>


#74787 Super Sixteen

Posted by Felix Mottram on 31 October 2010 - 08:45 AM

I created an animate gif for what I understand from the first sentence. (click on the image to see the animation) The next sentence animation will be next.

Hey John,

That's perfect <grins>


Edit, those following closely may realise that I had envisaged a left or right facing grid for moving on into an 'infinity'