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#41 Jynx

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 10:28 PM

Hey guys,

Stumbled along this thread while looking at where to start with team flying. Where I am there is no one that team flys but there are 2 of us that are wanting to have a go at some team stuff with a third person getting an 1.5 SLE soon to join us. What I would like to know is some real basic things that we should be looking at doing to get things underway. Yes we all will need to get some 120' lines at some stage in the near future but at this stage we are looking at the very basic stuff.

So, what would use guys suggest we start looking at to get the hang of very early stages of Rev Team flying?

Mike Kory of IKE, and a member of 180Go as well as iQuad, published this Mega Fly Mannual...

http://www.revkites.com/main/Team


After taking part in my first Mega fly at Treasure Island, I found this mannual very helpful to further understand some of the calls that were made. It's certainly well worth printing, and studding for team flys.


:clap2: Thanks to Mike for all his hard work and talents! :clap2:




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#42 andelscott

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 03:54 AM

Mike Kory of IKE, and a member of 180Go as well as iQuad, published this Mega Fly Mannual...

http://www.revkites.com/main/Team


I find the animations very helpful:
http://www.revkites.com/main/Animations

The manual is great at alerting to individual kite line twists and has allowed me to ponder the deep and exciting world of wrap-around twists (2 or more kites lines passing around each other, rather than individual kite line twists). OK, so I've barely made any progress, but it gives the residual brain cell something to do.
Andy

#43 Jeff

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:38 PM

Hey guys,

Stumbled along this thread while looking at where to start with team flying. Where I am there is no one that team flys but there are 2 of us that are wanting to have a go at some team stuff with a third person getting an 1.5 SLE soon to join us. What I would like to know is some real basic things that we should be looking at doing to get things underway. Yes we all will need to get some 120' lines at some stage in the near future but at this stage we are looking at the very basic stuff.

So, what would use guys suggest we start looking at to get the hang of very early stages of Rev Team flying?

At the very start...I'd begin with a couple basics to get going.

The Follow.
Basically, have someone lead and the others follow the path of the leader.
The goal, to maintain even spacing, speed, and smooth lines.

The most common format for this among quad team fliers is that the person standing farthest to the right is the leader, with each person to the left following in succession.

The most common pattern, the one you will see most teams and mega-flys perform, is a figure-8 shape turned sideways. The leader will fly to the right in a large clockwise circle in the right half of the window, come up in the center and turn a counter clockwise circle in the left half of the window. You will start to get the feeling of what other kites' lines pushing on yours feels like as you come up halfway for the second circle.

Ball and burst.

Practice hovering in a ball formation. With three kites, you can have the top kite straight horizontal, and the other two will be beneath facing outward diagonally toward the ground. Winds up more of a triangle than a ball, but that's fine for three. Practice keeping your formation steady.

Then practice flying outward at the same time. Do slow, and fast. Try to move at the same speed as the other kites. Keep straight lines.

Practice returning to the ball position by flying backward exactly to where you came from. Remember that the kites coming up can't go as fast as the one coming down, so the top kite needs to match its speed to others so they arrive back at the middle at the same time.

Have Fun
This last one's pretty easy, in my opinion. Hardly need to practice that anymore. ;)
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#44 Jynx

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:36 PM

Have Fun
This last one's pretty easy, in my opinion. Hardly need to practice that anymore. ;)

Now that's one I'm an expert at!
Jeff ~ Great information, as usual... Thanks again for all your help (and patience) at the Cool Fool Kite Fest!
Jynx

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then there will be peace"

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#45 Jeepster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 05:54 AM

Mike Kory of IKE, and a member of 180Go as well as iQuad <snip> studding for team flys.


:clap2: Thanks to Mike for all his hard work and talents! :clap2:



Studding? Your Freudian slip has certainly put a smile on my face this morning. Adds a whole new dimension to the Pappa Smurf image. I'm sure some of the IKE members will help point out his new status this Saturday.

Cheers,
Tom

#46 Jynx

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:19 AM

Studding? Your Freudian slip has certainly put a smile on my face this morning. Adds a whole new dimension to the Pappa Smurf image. I'm sure some of the IKE members will help point out his new status this Saturday.

Cheers,
Tom

OMG!
Talk about... Open Mouth Insert Foot!



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then there will be peace"

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#47 Wayne

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 05:22 PM

Chris,

As a beginner (my first team attempt was yesterday), I can share what I learned from my humbling experience. I quickly discovered that my solo flying sessions needed some practice that I had not thought of before.

The only pattern I attempted with the group was folowing the leader. Seeing others doing this looked so easy, and I had done many figure-8 patterns alone, but I had not realized that I needed to master doing it slowly. Fast solo figure-8's were not that difficult for me, but for team flying it must be done much slower, making the maneuver harder to perform well. After mangling the team figure-8's a couple of times, I spent considerable time during the afternoon practicing large circles and figure-8's alone as slowly and smoothly as I could.

A second lesson was the difficulty in focusing. There is so much pressure with 4-6 other kites that it is easy to lose concentration. I need to learn to keep my attention on flying my own kite while keeping a sense of the kite immediately in front of me. One time I lost focus by noticing a kite flying downwind from us.

My third rude awakening was realizing that my lines were longer than everyone else's. I had purchased a ready-to-use set of quad 120' lines from a reputable dealer, but they seemed 3-6' longer than everyone else's. This led to entanglements whenever others tried to dock with my kite. I learned that this is called "threading", and Brad gave me some one-on-one lessons on dealing with this. Today I checked this lineset and found it to be 123.5 feet long with about 1" variation among the four lines. I will be shortening them to 120' as I don't want to stand 3 1/2 feet behind everyone else.

I hope these lessons can be helpful to you. I also hope that the friendly and patient group I flew with gives me another shot when I get better. Sharing the airspace with one other seems like a good step for me to work up to a full team, but the lessons I got yesterday I needed to learn. I am greatful for the fun, camaraderie, and learning experience.

Enjoy the learning curve,

Wayne Reed
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#48 Jeff

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:07 PM

The only pattern I attempted with the group was folowing the leader. Seeing others doing this looked so easy, and I had done many figure-8 patterns alone, but I had not realized that I needed to master doing it slowly. Fast solo figure-8's were not that difficult for me, but for team flying it must be done much slower, making the maneuver harder to perform well. After mangling the team figure-8's a couple of times, I spent considerable time during the afternoon practicing large circles and figure-8's alone as slowly and smoothly as I could.

A second lesson was the difficulty in focusing. There is so much pressure with 4-6 other kites that it is easy to lose concentration. I need to learn to keep my attention on flying my own kite while keeping a sense of the kite immediately in front of me. One time I lost focus by noticing a kite flying downwind from us.

Congratulations on a successful first effort. Those things you found difficulty with are the first things everybody realizes after the first time out. There's really no way to describe it, you just have to get out there and feel how it's different.

I had the same reaction after my first team flight. I just wasn't coming close to making smooth turns in the follow, and was sliding out of the path way too far. It was hard to concentrate on flying the path accurately, while at the same time maintaining any kind of even spacing. After that, I got to practicing those figure 8 turns over and over, only this time I had a better feel for what it should be like.
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#49 quaa714

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 04:41 AM

Wayne,
Don't sell yourself short. You did an excellent job, way better than you gave yourself credit for.
The idea of braking on the way down is important so that you don't overcorrect on the way back up.

Like Jeff said, spacing (no, not that kind of spacing!) in line is the key to a good looking follow. Much different than doing it on your own.
With respect to the other kites, pay attention to the kite immediately in front of you, taking a pause and then turning where they turn. I had the problem of being to anxious and would start my turns at the same time, causing me to turn under them, thus having to overcorrect. It has a tendency to screw up the others behind you as they are in turn using you as their reference.
The sense of panic is urgent if you're not comfortable in line. Trust of your fellow fliers is key. Everyone's been there and the longer you do it the easier it becomes to know how to bail out when there is a problem up or down the line. It all comes back to braking because the ability to slow down or stop in line quickly is key.

Get out there with Barb and go through it. See ya on the 24th for massive team fly with Brian at LSP!

"Cya in the Sand!....."

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#50 ssm1nw

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:14 AM

Wayne,
Don't sell yourself short. You did an excellent job, way better than you gave yourself credit for.
The idea of braking on the way down is important so that you don't overcorrect on the way back up.

Like Jeff said, spacing (no, not that kind of spacing!) in line is the key to a good looking follow. Much different than doing it on your own.
With respect to the other kites, pay attention to the kite immediately in front of you, taking a pause and then turning where they turn. I had the problem of being to anxious and would start my turns at the same time, causing me to turn under them, thus having to overcorrect. It has a tendency to screw up the others behind you as they are in turn using you as their reference.
The sense of panic is urgent if you're not comfortable in line. Trust of your fellow fliers is key. Everyone's been there and the longer you do it the easier it becomes to know how to bail out when there is a problem up or down the line. It all comes back to braking because the ability to slow down or stop in line quickly is key.

Get out there with Barb and go through it. See ya on the 24th for massive team fly with Brian at LSP!



--------------------


I have yet to get the opportunity of flying with others but hope to soon and am finding the articles on the forum very interesting.
Reading Wayne's comments has made me more determined to get it right
Looking at videos on youtube and other sites just make me want to do it more.
I have got some 120' lines on order but Royal Mail have them somewhere, hope to have them before i manage to meet with some other rev flyers. I am going to go to Dunstable Downs on Sunday 15th if the weather is good and hope I might get to see other revs in action.

Keith

#51 Wayne

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 07:04 AM

Rich,

Don't get me wrong, I am not discouraged, only more aware of the different challenges of sharing the airspace. Both Barb & I had a great time, and i really appreciated the opportunity to try out team flying. (Wait til you see some of the video we shot, we sure laughed alot. :kid_smartass: ) I can't wait for the 24th, and in the meantime I hope we get out to our local site to practice some of the lessons from Saturday. I hope to try again soon, especially one-on-one to get some comfort level with the dynamics.

Thanks for the encouragement; as a beginner that is very helpful.


Wayne,
Don't sell yourself short. You did an excellent job, way better than you gave yourself credit for.
The idea of braking on the way down is important so that you don't overcorrect on the way back up.

Like Jeff said, spacing (no, not that kind of spacing!) in line is the key to a good looking follow. Much different than doing it on your own.
With respect to the other kites, pay attention to the kite immediately in front of you, taking a pause and then turning where they turn. I had the problem of being to anxious and would start my turns at the same time, causing me to turn under them, thus having to overcorrect. It has a tendency to screw up the others behind you as they are in turn using you as their reference.
The sense of panic is urgent if you're not comfortable in line. Trust of your fellow fliers is key. Everyone's been there and the longer you do it the easier it becomes to know how to bail out when there is a problem up or down the line. It all comes back to braking because the ability to slow down or stop in line quickly is key.

Get out there with Barb and go through it. See ya on the 24th for massive team fly with Brian at LSP!


Wayne Reed
Rev Backtracker, 1.5 SLE, Custom Full, Mid-vent & Vented B Series, Shook Weave Kites
http://WReedImages.com
My Rev Gallery


#52 Aerochic

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 06:26 PM

Thanks for posting your experience Wayne. It gives me some idea of what I should be working on. :blushing:

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#53 Love2fly

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:15 PM

Wayne,
You did great! It's sooooooo much fun.

If I may, here's a suggestion for a drill that might help anyone "tighten the lines" that they are trying to follow.
First, to give some perspective here: When you are flying alone, there's no obvious way to judge how tightly you are following a given pattern as the window you are looking at is so large, so you can't really judge how "in line" you really are.
So, try following the outline of whatever you see out past where you are flying. If it's a tree, try to follow the outline of it. If you can, do a figure eight using the tree top as half of the figure eight. If you see a building of some sort, try to follow the outline. You can turn on an arc around any corners. If the building is large enough, do the figure eight inside of the edges. You will be real surprised to see what kind of control you need and how much skill you will gain while doing these drills.
After you get comfortable with that and can smoothly do complete figures at the same speed all the way through, try going slower, riding the breaks more. The opposite is true, too. Go faster, keeping control all of the way through.
I can promise you that this will help greatly for team flying.

One other thing. Concentrate on your kite and what it's doing. It is easy to "zone out" and not pay attention. It doesn't take long to wipe out when that happens. I am only sharing from my own experiences, which I'm positive, has happened to everyone at one time or another.
Have fun, always.
Laura
 
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#54 Aerochic

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:29 PM

That's some really good input, Laura! Thanks for these useful tips! So much to work on...sigh!

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#55 Love2fly

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:28 PM

That's some really good input, Laura! Thanks for these useful tips! So much to work on...sigh!



Ahhhhhhh, but soooooo much fun. B)
Laura
 
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#56 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 06:32 AM

I am going to go to Dunstable Downs on Sunday 15th if the weather is good and hope I might get to see other revs in action

I'll be there too anytime from about 12:00 onwards. Do you know The Downs well? Us Rev flyers usually gather behind and to the left of the Visitor Centre as there tends to be less passing traffic to stroll through the lines there. It may be a bit quiet on the Rev front though as I believe the Rev "creme de la creme" are practicing else where this w/e, there should be 3 or 4 of us there though and it's always good to see a new face. If your 120's haven't arrived arrived I think I my be able to find a set you can borrow for the afternoon. See you Sunday.
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#57 play365

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 10:46 AM

I'll be there too anytime from about 12:00 onwards. Do you know The Downs well? Us Rev flyers usually gather behind and to the left of the Visitor Centre as there tends to be less passing traffic to stroll through the lines there. It may be a bit quiet on the Rev front though as I believe the Rev "creme de la creme" are practicing else where this w/e, there should be 3 or 4 of us there though and it's always good to see a new face. If your 120's haven't arrived arrived I think I my be able to find a set you can borrow for the afternoon. See you Sunday.


"creme de la creme" lol I like that
GARY




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#58 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 02:22 PM

"creme de la creme" lol I like that

Maybe, but who said it was you I was referring to. :P
Stone in Shoe Bob

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