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Rev 1 standard spars snap like a matchstick


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#21 RevWizard

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:38 PM

Hello Brian, thank you. I will take on board your advice to make sure they are always well in. The 3 rods were delivered 1 x 36", 1 x 36" with a ferrule and 1 x 36 with a ferrule

Good to hear from a UK Flyer. I have yet to meet one!

Ian

It should 2x 36"(91cm) without ferrule and 1x 36"(91cm)(excluding extra ferrule length) with ferrule.
All 3 rods together should measure 108"(273cm). Please verify!

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#22 RevWizard

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 06:53 PM

Hello John,

Purchased from a dealer in West Midlands. He has been very helpful. I asked him to get me Rev 1 - 3 wrap but there was some confusion as to what 3 wrap was. So I said in that case, that I would be pleased to have the original rods as supplied for the Rev 1. My Rev one was supplied as a Rev 1 SLE. My feeling was that if the old or original 1/4" rods were good for say up to a 15 mph wind, then that would be fine. I asumed, that is what I got. But as you may have seen on the poor video the leading edge snapped well before any serious flexing.

3 wrap is labeled "Ultra Light". Not many shops carry these for the REV I. They probably have order them from REV.

What does the end look like. I posted some pictures earlier.

Referring to the end of the piece that broke off.

My EXP has the same size 1/4" rods and I have been in strong winds with it. Certinly, much stronger that my experience when I broke the Rev 1.

The standard shipped EXP uses the "UltraLight"(3-wrap) rod. They just aren't labeled on the EXP.

Take a 1/4" wood rod that is 12" long and one that is 18" long. Which is easier to break?
The REV I is 273cm(108") long. The REV 1.5 is 237cm(96"). Rods of the same type would break earlier on a REV I with the same wind.

I just looked at your site John. Gob smacked! Most interesting. Excellent photography.

Many thanks!
I spend quite a bit of my time these days with photography.

Thanks

Ian


Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#23 Watty

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:46 PM

I find two things here strange.

1. Why did they give you revII rods for youre RevI?
2. Why did a Revolution vender not know what a 3 wrap spar was?

I'm a little confused.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#24 RevWizard

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:28 PM

I find two things here strange.

1. Why did they give you revII rods for youre RevI?
2. Why did a Revolution vender not know what a 3 wrap spar was?

I'm a little confused.

My opinion is that the dealer:
1. is not that familiar with REV kites, but maybe overall familiar with kites in general.
2. many dealers are not familiar with the terms 2 wrap, 3 wrap and 4 wrap as they are not documented as so and to really be truthful, they really are not wrapped so. There is much more involved in the wrappings of the rods.
The 2, 3 and 4 wrap terms apparently came about in order to more easily understand the rough difference between the "Professional Only", "Ultra Light" and "Revolution Equipped" rods. How and when the terms evolved, I am not quite sure. I am surely guilty of pushing the term along in past articles I wrote on Rev Kites.
I am quite happy using the terms 2-3-4 wrap. It keeps it simple. OK?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#25 ian4c

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 03:59 AM

37" rods would work if you can stretch your bungees far enough. However, I would not do it except in emergency.

How long are the rods marked REV II? 36", 37" or specify?
Do the extra wraps on the rods at the end cover the length plus some of the ferrule length? You should see about 2" on each end where the rods is a bit thicker on the outside. Some newer rods, this is hard to detect.

REV I spars labeled "Revolution Equipped"(commonly called 4 wrap), considering they have not been physically damaged before, should able to handle a wind stronger then you can handle. I have photos of the leading edge bending more then 90 degrees in very strong winds.
REV I rods labeled "Professional Only" (commonly called 2 wrap) are somewhat sensitive. If the wind is gusty, don't use them. If the wind is strong enough that can fly your REV I easily with the "Revolution Equipped" rods, don't try using the "Professional Only rods. The wind is probably too strong with the "Professional Only" rods.
For the REV I there is also the "Ultra Light"(commonly called 3 wrap) rods. They are between the other two types in flex and strength. They are not that easy to find, but they are available. There is also an even stronger set of rods labeled "Stiff"(commonly called 6 wrap). They are special order only.


Hello John

The extra rods I purchased, marked Rev 11 Revolution Equipped, as shown in my posted picture are 36" each. (cut down Rev 11 37") My dealer asked me if my Rev 1 was 36 or 37 rods. Supplied to me 1 x 36", 2 x 36" with a ferrule at each end. The ferrule on each end is just under 2" long. In the picture showing the ferrules of the 2 rods with ferrule you will see that one has a white centre. ?! These rods fit into the end caps. The Rev 1 Equipped fit into the rod with a rubber washer protecting the bridle.

I am not able to detect any extra thickness where the ferrule is fitted to the rod.

Regarding the Rev 1 that I bought as a Rev 1 SLE. This appears from what you say to be a Rev 1 since they are marked Revolution Equipped. Nothing else except the Revolution logo.

Thanks you to all of you who are trying to sort this out for me. Mr. Denny has suggested in a message, that I am playing with the forum!! Goodness! why would I want to do that? Absoutly not true! I have not intentionally provided incorrect information as he suggests in my posts.

I now understand from your comment John, "For the REV I there is also the "Ultra Light"(commonly called 3 wrap) rods" that this is what I tried to order from the dealer in the first place to enable me to fly in lighter winds. And the dealer, not knowing what the 3 wrap was, said he could make me up a set of Rods. These are the rods that failed in the video.

I enquired by Email to another dealer to purchase Rev 1 3 wrap rods. They could not be bothered to answer, even after a reminder. They have no phone number on their site. That company http://www.kiteworld.co.uk.

I have just checked my Rev 1.5 SLE rods and they are marked Ultra Light. So that would be 3 Wrap. My Rev 1 rods are marked Revolution Equipped.

I do wonder why the Revolution company does not provide documentation along with their kites. I mean, doesen't everybody who gets hooked not want to progress. One sheet of spares information with worldwide dealers with a new kite would be so helpful. When you have knowledge it is so easy!

Is it possible for anybody to put me in touch with a UK dealer for Revolution parts and kites.

Thanks, Ian

#26 ilh

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 06:03 AM

Those spars are clearly labeled "Rev II" (i.e., Rev 2), and I believe stock Rev II spars are 37 inches long. It sounds like the dealer cut them down for you to 36 inches. The other give away is the fact that the center spar doesn't have both ferrules, as is the case with Rev I and 1.5. Rev II leading edges have only a single ferrule.

I'd be a little surprised that cutting down 4-wrap (Rev Equipped) spars would cause a problem. Those are pretty beefy sticks, and I doubt there is any special reinforcement at the ends. I cut down some Rev I 4-wraps for use in my 1.5 (36" down to 31"), and haven't noticed any problems. Even with 2-wraps I don't see any visible reinforcement in terms of increased thickness near the ferrules. In constrast, I have some old SkyShark IIIp that has very clear reinforcement, but my Rev sticks don't show this.

I wonder if the spar was damaged when it was cut down, perhaps cracked in a vice from too much pressure. I think you are justified in asking for your money back from the dealer. He clearly sold you shortened Rev II spars, not Rev I spars. I don't know how it works in the UK, but if I couldn't get satisfaction from a local dealer, I would order directly from Rev. Lolly responds to email to RevKites {at} aol {dot} com.

--Lee

#27 ian4c

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 06:21 AM

Those spars are clearly labeled "Rev II" (i.e., Rev 2), and I believe stock Rev II spars are 37 inches long. It sounds like the dealer cut them down for you to 36 inches. The other give away is the fact that the center spar doesn't have both ferrules, as is the case with Rev I and 1.5. Rev II leading edges have only a single ferrule.

I'd be a little surprised that cutting down 4-wrap (Rev Equipped) spars would cause a problem. Those are pretty beefy sticks, and I doubt there is any special reinforcement at the ends. I cut down some Rev I 4-wraps for use in my 1.5 (36" down to 31"), and haven't noticed any problems. Even with 2-wraps I don't see any visible reinforcement in terms of increased thickness near the ferrules. In constrast, I have some old SkyShark IIIp that has very clear reinforcement, but my Rev sticks don't show this.

I wonder if the spar was damaged when it was cut down, perhaps cracked in a vice from too much pressure. I think you are justified in asking for your money back from the dealer. He clearly sold you shortened Rev II spars, not Rev I spars. I don't know how it works in the UK, but if I couldn't get satisfaction from a local dealer, I would order directly from Rev. Lolly responds to email to RevKites@aol.com.

--Lee


You are correct Lee - The rods were Rev ll cut down to size. And yes I rekon the spar / rod may have been cracked since it broke so easily. My dealer is sending me a replacment.

So, I finally, now, with the help of so many experienced folk I am getting to understand The Revolution. I have been Reving for a very few weeks now and I really exjoying the EXPerience!

Ian

#28 RevWizard

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:33 AM

Hello John

The extra rods I purchased, marked Rev 11 Revolution Equipped, as shown in my posted picture are 36" each. (cut down Rev 11 37") My dealer asked me if my Rev 1 was 36 or 37 rods. Supplied to me 1 x 36", 2 x 36" with a ferrule at each end. The ferrule on each end is just under 2" long. In the picture showing the ferrules of the 2 rods with ferrule you will see that one has a white centre. ?! These rods fit into the end caps. The Rev 1 Equipped fit into the rod with a rubber washer protecting the bridle.

I suggest returning all of those REV II rods that are cut down to the shop and insist upon the originals for a REV I.
They should not have cut them to length as they obviously do not know those particular rods.

I am not able to detect any extra thickness where the ferrule is fitted to the rod.

Then these are the later ones. I know they are beefed up on the ends, but exactly how, I am not quite sure.

Regarding the Rev 1 that I bought as a Rev 1 SLE. This appears from what you say to be a Rev 1 since they are marked Revolution Equipped. Nothing else except the Revolution logo.

Thanks you to all of you who are trying to sort this out for me. Mr. Denny has suggested in a message, that I am playing with the forum!! Goodness! why would I want to do that? Absoutly not true! I have not intentionally provided incorrect information as he suggests in my posts.

I would suggest that you refrain from quoting parts of private messages unless you have their approval.

I now understand from your comment John, "For the REV I there is also the "Ultra Light"(commonly called 3 wrap) rods" that this is what I tried to order from the dealer in the first place to enable me to fly in lighter winds. And the dealer, not knowing what the 3 wrap was, said he could make me up a set of Rods. These are the rods that failed in the video.

That was the dealers error!
Insist upon original rods for that REV and no others.
I personally do not use rods from other manufactures in my REVs because of bad experiences in the past with those rods.

I do wonder why the Revolution company does not provide documentation along with their kites. I mean, doesen't everybody who gets hooked not want to progress. One sheet of spares information with worldwide dealers with a new kite would be so helpful. When you have knowledge it is so easy!

I don't know of any kite manufacturer who as ever done so! Maybe REV will be the first.

Is it possible for anybody to put me in touch with a UK dealer for Revolution parts and kites.

Look around on this forum. There is a UK dealer whom several have had good experiences.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#29 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:50 AM

Look around on this forum. There is a UK dealer whom several have had good experiences.

Well, I don't want to throw oil on the fire but I have to say I have always recommended Kiteworld.

They didn't used to keep a large range of spars but I think have been making moves to change that and I think they are fast becoming the place in the UK to go for all thing Rev.

Sorry.
Stone in Shoe Bob

It's Good to Share the Joy.

#30 RevWizard

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 09:56 AM

Well, I don't want to throw oil on the fire but I have to say I have always recommended Kiteworld.

They didn't used to keep a large range of spars but I think have been making moves to change that and I think they are fast becoming the place in the UK to go for all thing Rev.

Sorry.

Maybe the wrong person answered the phone when he called.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#31 Harrier

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:10 AM

Maybe the wrong person answered the phone when he called.

They could have been on their way to, or from a Festival, they do attend many festivals at this time of year, try again they are pretty helpful. ^_^

#32 FortFlyer

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 12:40 PM

Well regardless of all the techno babble Rev II rods in a Rev 1 = WRONG RODS, there that was easy :kid_smartass:
Jim,
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#33 ian4c

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:48 PM

Well, I don't want to throw oil on the fire but I have to say I have always recommended Kiteworld.

They didn't used to keep a large range of spars but I think have been making moves to change that and I think they are fast becoming the place in the UK to go for all thing Rev.

Sorry.


I am please to hear that. I will give them a go for my next Rev. They have probably been very busy. I did think their site looked very professional but when it came to finding rods I could find nothing at all in relation to Rev 1 spars hence sending 2 messages However, I think the problem was contacting them via the website. I should have looked further and have since found a normal Email link and an phone number!

Ian

#34 jay

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 06:55 AM

Just so you know Ian I phoned Stephen at Kiteworld explained to him what I wanted and he sent me out the 2 wrap and 3 wrap rods ordered on the Monday afternoon recieved them on the Tuesday morning, could not ask more from a dealer, best people I have dealt with, used to buy all my stuff Kite wise from Air Bourne Kites based in Brighton,

on a similar subject should the upright sticks be changed as well as the Leading Edge, my rev 1 looks a bit odd as it flying with 3wrap le and 4wrap uprights, its not a progressive bend but seems to bend more sharply after the upright or is this normal?
Tight Lines
Jade



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#35 ian4c

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:48 AM

Just so you know Ian I phoned Stephen at Kiteworld explained to him what I wanted and he sent me out the 2 wrap and 3 wrap rods ordered on the Monday afternoon recieved them on the Tuesday morning, could not ask more from a dealer, best people I have dealt with, used to buy all my stuff Kite wise from Air Bourne Kites based in Brighton,

on a similar subject should the upright sticks be changed as well as the Leading Edge, my rev 1 looks a bit odd as it flying with 3wrap le and 4wrap uprights, its not a progressive bend but seems to bend more sharply after the upright or is this normal?


Hi Jade,

Thanks for the info on Kiteworld.

As you have confirmed, Kiteword is very good to deal with. I did understand at the time there was a problem getting Emails. That was sorted.

I have bought 3 Revs from Kiteworld since then.

Ian

#36 ian4c

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 12:15 PM

on a similar subject should the upright sticks be changed as well as the Leading Edge, my rev 1 looks a bit odd as it flying with 3wrap le and 4wrap uprights, its not a progressive bend but seems to bend more sharply after the upright or is this normal?


Sorry I missed your question. Sounds like you are pushing your luck in higher winds if you are getting excessive bend after the uprights. The weight of the 4 wrap up rights should not make any difference to the bend.

Personally I would say, if you don't have 3 wrap uprights it won't make a deal of difference. I guess you are using the 3 wrap leading edge for lighter winds. With regard to the bend. With the lighter leading edge the Rev 1 will bend. I learnt to control the Rev 1 in quite strong wind with lighter rods by letting out the top lines considerably (more brake).

Ian

#37 John Barresi

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:12 PM

I'd offer that in high wind, the uprights are usually the first thing to snap... I wouldn't underestimate the strength needed there.

For crashes of course, the leading edge generally takes the most punishment... During Flac Flacs too.

John Barresi

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#38 jay

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:13 PM

I bought the LE but didnt think about the uprights so am flying with 3wrap le and 4wrap uprights should I get 2or 3 wrap uprights to balance it all out by what you just posted John I am leaning towards the 2

Jade
Tight Lines
Jade



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#39 John Barresi

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:27 PM

It's all relative to the wind... When the wind is plenty to "paste" the kite up but it's not distorting at all, you've got the right rods in.

Since the uprights don't distort much, just gauge when the kite is stressed and upgrade the spars to match. ;)

John Barresi

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#40 jay

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:39 PM

If that's the case muult with one of the rod's. will replace it and see what happens if no difference it's always good to have a spare.thanks for advice.
Tight Lines
Jade



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