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Diamonds vs black Race vs 3-wrap


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#1 Moggy

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:21 PM

Still loving my 1.5! (SLE, but without the SLE, if you get me)

 

However the left 3-wrap LeadingEdge spar seemingly broke cleanly off the central LE during setting up, leaving the end of the spar still attached flush to the central LE's ferrule. Hard to get it off the central LE. Unsure how it occurred as little pressure was placed on it when handling and I'm always extremely careful at all times when setting up, flying, dismantling and putting it away, but could have been a unseen fracture from a former accident just waiting to shear, or a family member unduly placing something heavy/stressful on the kite during the long haul car transit prior to using it.

 

So replacements!..

 

Will get a suitable 3-wrap spar to replace it, but was also thinking of getting a separate lighter frame for lower wind speeds as sometimes I struggle trying to keep it up during the lulls, inevitably it gently floats down to land (if I've ran out of room to walk backwards) and I'm waiting there for the next gust in order to relaunch it, hehe. Ad infinitum.

 

I'm only used to using 3-wraps as that's all I've had available to me, other than the large SLE which doesn't get used.

 

Saw that the black Race Rods have the weight of the 2-wrap with the strength of the 3-wrap. Then I saw the Diamonds, which are lighter than the black Race Rods but are supposedly even stronger, with the greater stiffness of the 3-wraps?

 

I'd still like to be able to throw the kite around (in 10mph winds), and carry out sharp, snappy turns and manoeuvres, does this bode well?

 

I saw someone say their Diamond frame was 51g in total, while the black Race Rods are 75g. Does anyone happen to know how heavy the standard 3-wrap frame is? Unfortunately my Rev is currently 100 miles away (will be reunited in a fortnight), or I'd gladly weigh the frame myself.

 

Ty,

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#2 REVflyer

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 04:09 PM

Don't know the weights but non-quad head wife could feel and appreciate the difference between Zen & Diamonds when handed one of each tube. Some like a flexible leading edge and the ability to go low wind ranges at any time

The black race is a tough great stick, ... Got lots of em! But if I was starting over I'd only use the Green race & Diamonds.

Diamonds are fantastic low wind tubes, and I have broken several impacting objects

Green race is the perfect stick .... If you have enough wind and want the frame less flexible

2, 3, 4 wraps, advantage, progressive wrapped, Skyshark P90s, zen tubes? I have all of these sticks for the 1.5 platform and don't prefer any of them! Only need two frames greenies and diamonds

#3 SkyPuppet

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:13 PM

10 mph doesn't bode well for Diamonds, IMHO, and is a higher top end than I like to fly my black Race frame as well. I don't fly with magic sticks, so my observations are based on a stock setup.

I'd recommend the black Race frame to most folks before I'd recommend The Diamond frame. The Diamond frame is NOT stronger than a 3 wrap or even a 2 wrap for that matter! It is a delicate instrument, I put it's range at 1-6 mph. Again though, this is all IMO.

I'd recommend the black Race frame for you ;)

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#4 hyzakite

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

"Seemingly" broken cleanly off. Did you find the broken missing piece? If no,,,

 

My guess is the glue broke loose and that piece slid down into the tube, you need to break the other one loose and pull it out pliers work ok, I use a long metal rod to push those pieces out, then reglue them back in.



#5 SparkieRob

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

10 mph doesn't bode well for Diamonds, IMHO, and is a higher top end than I like to fly my black Race frame as well. I don't fly with magic sticks, so my observations are based on a stock setup.

I'd recommend the black Race frame to most folks before I'd recommend The Diamond frame. The Diamond frame is NOT stronger than a 3 wrap or even a 2 wrap for that matter! It is a delicate instrument, I put it's range at 1-6 mph. Again though, this is all IMO.

I'd recommend the black Race frame for you ;)


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#6 Tmadz

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:10 PM

I've only flown with the green race a couple of times but I'm experimenting with them more. Diamonds have been surprisingly sturdy in7-8 mph for me. Love the black race rods but liking the less flex on the green race rods so far.

#7 REVflyer

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 12:47 AM

Any time diamond wouldn't be appropriate, it's perfect for greenies!

#8 oapbillf

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 12:57 AM

Hi Moggy,

 

With the gusty winds that we get in the UK I would say that your best bet is to go for Black Race Rods !

They are lighter than Green Race Rods, I thought the Greens were more for use when getting wet, flying

in/over the sea and rivers, correct me if I am wrong !

Diamonds are a rod set that would only be appreciated after years of experience and they cost more.

 

Bill



#9 SparkieRob

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:37 AM

My dream set up was std and mid with black race and Vtd and XTRA with green race. Eventually I'll get some green race rods.

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#10 Moggy

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

Thanks everyone, sorry for the delay, was kiteless until yesterday.

 

"Seemingly" broken cleanly off. Did you find the broken missing piece? If no,,,

 

My guess is the glue broke loose and that piece slid down into the tube, you need to break the other one loose and pull it out pliers work ok, I use a long metal rod to push those pieces out, then reglue them back in.

 

Thanks Hyza, you were right about this, the problem occurred just after inserting the spars into the central LE and tightening the bungees. After it 'broke' I pulled all the spars out of the LE fabric and there were no broken missing pieces, it just looked like the left LE had snapped cleanly off the ferrule. I couldn't understand how it happened.

 

I now have the kite back in my hand and can indeed confirm the affected ferrule had simply slid into the central LE. I didn't realise the central LE was just a regular rod and that the ferrules were separate pieces and simply glued in place.

 

Using your advice I've since managed to get the other ferrule off with pliers, and then used the pliers to straighten a strong wire coat hanger to poke the other problematic ferrule back out, many thanks for that! Seems the standard glue holding the ferrules in situ isn't very strong. Will use superglue to reglue them.

 

Will also still be grabbing a lighter frame and thanks to everyone's advice I will likely forgo the Diamonds for now and get a set of Black Race Rods to compliment the 3-wraps for low wind, and educate myself further in those conditions. smile.png I'm not content with waiting for slighlty windier days!

 

Just for interest, I weighed my 3-wrap frame - 101grams for the full set (5 rods + 2 ferrules) in total. That compares with other people's weights of 75g for the set of Race Rods, and 50grams for a set of Diamonds.

 

Back to the 3-wraps, the four single outer rods (not the rod used for the central LE with ferrules) individually weighed in at 16g, 17g, 17g and 20g. A moderate discrepancy between the 16-17gram rods and the 20g one, which was odd, especially as the 20g rod was one of the ones on the side. To rule out user error in weighing, I re-calibrated the scale and weighed the rods again and the same figures held.

 

The central LE rod (with 2 ferrules) weighed 30g. The ferrules weigh 5grams each, the central LE rod itself (without ferrules) was also 20g.

 

Knowing this, I calculated the Left to Right distribution ratio of weight of my previous frame layout as being 48:52 grams (L:R) of the kite, meaning the right side weighed 4grams more than the left (about a 7-8% difference in the frame). The difference would become negligable when you factor in the weight of the rest of the kite, and also for an amateur pilot's technique, but I may still use this info to redistribute the rods so they balance out a touch better, such as placing the 20g rods either side of the kite and allocating one of the other rods to be the new central LE and attach the ferrules to it.

 

Thanks again. smile.png



#11 stroke survivor

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

Yes, you can use either matching rods as ends and the other as verts. Use the lightest and odd as the center LE piece. Just don't get too hung up on numbers, they're just guidelines, not scripture!!


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#12 Tmadz

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 07:34 PM

Got to fly the SUL this weekend and I was very pleased with the diamonds up to 7-8 mph. Pretty solid. I found myself not liking the race rods as much when I shifted to the std full sail. I switched it out for the greenies as the winds increased. Loving the green race rods. Just finding myself not being as comfortable with the flex on the black race rods. Seems like they flex more than the Diamonds. Maybe it's me, but the last two flying sessions have been like that.






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