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Have 1.5 SLE. Vs. B-Series Vented. More Stable?


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#1 MarshallPlacid

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

I currently have the Rev 1.5 SLE.


I have seen others using the B-Series Vented and they seem to be MUCH more precise and stable.


I know it could be a matter of skill and experience.

 

But, would a B-Series Vented be more stable and precise (instead of twitching and being very hard to "hover")?

 

Basically, I find it very hard to "hover" sideways and to go up and down while the kite is horizontal.


When I slide up and down while the kite is horizontal, it moves in a 45 degree angle up and down instead of straight up and down sliding.

 

Any advice is much appreciated.



#2 SparkieRob

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:14 AM

A full sail is inherently more responsive (twitchy) as it has more sail surface to be powered up. A vented sail is more stable as the venting allows the sail to be slightly depressurized which means slower.

Practicing hovers with a vented sail is a lot easier and less frustrating than a standard. A vented sail is less prone to "bowties", that is where one wing turns down (or up depending on kite orientation) from too much brake input.

"Inbetween heaven and earth, there are kites."


#3 kwmf

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:26 AM

While the B series is better than the SLE series, you will not fix your problems with equipment - it's a skill issue you are experiencing and nothing that can't be easily resolved with the right information and a little practice.

 

I strongly suggest checking out JB's tutorials at http://www.learnkites.com/ and acquinting yourself with a good setup and basic flight skills to ensure you have a good baseline from which to work.

 

As is noted in the side slide tutorial (any orientation) ... the kite will naturally begin to arc when put into a slide. While the arc is useful to slide circles, if you want a straight line slide you have to counter the natural arc with opposing brake input.

 

Better yet, if possible, get together with others and learn from existing pilots ... it's the fastest way to accelerate your ability that we know of.



#4 REVflyer

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:52 AM

Excellent advise has already been given.

The slide, either inverted or up-right is accomplished by pulling and pushing the handles (dualie pilot style).  The difference between the two handles is what makes it move or remain stationary.  

 

Let's take inverted sliding as it's actually easier to do and more beneficial to practice first.  If you want to slide from the left to right and the kite is already inverted, you'll "tuck" one handle into your rib-cage and make all adjustments with just the other hand.  L-to-R is done with the left handle imbedded and stationary to your torso.  This way nothing is backwards or upside-down to your brain.  This way the weight is already below the kite (more stable, if not today,... it will be eventually, I promise!)  Eventually you will not need this crutch technique anymore.

 

Good practice is to fly backwards from inverted landing and get comfortable with the kite hovering just inches above the ground.  To make this easier you'll add "DOWN" into your handle leader tuning, more and more until it will back-up (in low wind you may need to walk backwards as well) and maintain extremely tiny movements of your hands. No, loosen your grip even more,.... your squeezing a cobra and I want you holding a baby chick instead.  So soft is your grip to become that a sudden breeze increase could rip 'em out of your delicate grasp entirely!

 

All this down may seem uncomfortable in the beginning, but with more time on the handles it will become natural.  All the down makes the sail "more square to the wind".  Means you're getting every ounce of wind pressure applied to the sail.  You may have to walk backwards or pump (NOT snappy yanking) the handles smoothly.  If you were indoors you'd have to move the kite, move your hands and move your feet, or some combination of the three to make your own wind.  Now take this newly understood skill-set outside and you'll find you can make the kite fly the same way.

 

The kite will do what you want it to do, but not if you remain locked in concrete physically!

 

There's a difference in the flight dynamics between the two models, but just because some aspect of flight is more demanding of the pilot doesn't mean it's completely impossible.  The SLE can be flown all smooth & graceful, but most everyone prefers more flex and less weight than those thick tubes can offer.  There will be a day when these tubes are appropriate!  Placing two sets of leading edge tubes into the sleeve is okay, getting 'em out is way too tough for me though.  Huge wind calls for fat SLE sticks even if they don't see daylight very often.

 

Drop your flying line attachment points from the kite onto a well placed stake, see if your handles align perfectly when yanked tight.  I do this comparison with the left handle on the right side, then for flight switch 'em back to preferred locations.  

 

You want everything even, neutral tuning and some decent smooth wind to practice.  You can make the kite do whatever you want, just not maybe the first time you try.  A skill worth having is not freely given and you have to earn making it all look effortless too!  Epic skills took practice sessions that ended long after everyone else went home.

 

Given a choice of flying conditions, most of us would prefer to fly weaves or vented kites.  They are slower and smoother in flight than full sails.  My full sailed kites last half as long as the others, simply because they are used that much more frequently.



#5 stroke survivor

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:13 AM

After reading this again, I'm wondering if he has not changed his top leaders out to some longer ones? That alone will make the kite "twitchy", overpowered in gusts, under in lulls!! See under Forum topics a thread on - My leaders, your thoughts - for pix and discussion on this idea!! 

 

Got link - http://www.revkites....-your-thoughts/


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#6 makatakam

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

The SLE is fine and flies well if all your lines are equal, the bridle is not shifted, and you have enough brake. The rest is experience and wind quality; if the wind is "lumpy" your kite will fly accordingly. Experience will eventually allow you to smooth out the lumps.

 

Just stay with it and don't forget to smile!   biggrin.png 


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#7 MarshallPlacid

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:40 PM

A full sail is inherently more responsive (twitchy) as it has more sail surface to be powered up. A vented sail is more stable as the venting allows the sail to be slightly depressurized which means slower.

Practicing hovers with a vented sail is a lot easier and less frustrating than a standard. A vented sail is less prone to "bowties", that is where one wing turns down (or up depending on kite orientation) from too much brake input.

 

Thank you.  Yes, that was what I thought.  I'll try a B-series vented soon!

 

The SLE is fine and flies well if all your lines are equal, the bridle is not shifted, and you have enough brake. The rest is experience and wind quality; if the wind is "lumpy" your kite will fly accordingly. Experience will eventually allow you to smooth out the lumps.

 

Just stay with it and don't forget to smile!   biggrin.png 

 

Maybe the lines are not equal.  And... the brake lines..  I noticed that the 2 brake lines are someone slack most of the time (or a little longer than the "top" lines).  I'll see to this immediately.

 

Thank you.



#8 MarshallPlacid

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:44 PM

While the B series is better than the SLE series, you will not fix your problems with equipment - it's a skill issue you are experiencing and nothing that can't be easily resolved with the right information and a little practice.

 

I strongly suggest checking out JB's tutorials at http://www.learnkites.com/ and acquinting yourself with a good setup and basic flight skills to ensure you have a good baseline from which to work.

 

As is noted in the side slide tutorial (any orientation) ... the kite will naturally begin to arc when put into a slide. While the arc is useful to slide circles, if you want a straight line slide you have to counter the natural arc with opposing brake input.

 

Better yet, if possible, get together with others and learn from existing pilots ... it's the fastest way to accelerate your ability that we know of.

 

You are quite right!

 

I think I did not "counter the natural arc with opposing brake input".

 

Both my hands were either pointing forward or backwards (both the same).

 

Now, I will try with one hand pointed forward and the other backwards.

 

Silly me.

 

After reading this again, I'm wondering if he has not changed his top leaders out to some longer ones? That alone will make the kite "twitchy", overpowered in gusts, under in lulls!! See under Forum topics a thread on - My leaders, your thoughts - for pix and discussion on this idea!! 

 

Got link - http://www.revkites....-your-thoughts/

 

Yes, the brake lines seem to be slack 90% of the time.

 

It could be that they are longer. 


Will check lines.

 

Question:

I read your link.

 

It seems that some kiters have brake lines that are shorter than their "top" lines.

 

Is this useful or should I always keep all 4 lines the same length?


Thank you.

 

Excellent advise has already been given.

The slide, either inverted or up-right is accomplished by pulling and pushing the handles (dualie pilot style).  The difference between the two handles is what makes it move or remain stationary.  

 

Let's take inverted sliding as it's actually easier to do and more beneficial to practice first.  If you want to slide from the left to right and the kite is already inverted, you'll "tuck" one handle into your rib-cage and make all adjustments with just the other hand.  L-to-R is done with the left handle imbedded and stationary to your torso.  This way nothing is backwards or upside-down to your brain.  This way the weight is already below the kite (more stable, if not today,... it will be eventually, I promise!)  Eventually you will not need this crutch technique anymore.

 

Good practice is to fly backwards from inverted landing and get comfortable with the kite hovering just inches above the ground.  To make this easier you'll add "DOWN" into your handle leader tuning, more and more until it will back-up (in low wind you may need to walk backwards as well) and maintain extremely tiny movements of your hands. No, loosen your grip even more,.... your squeezing a cobra and I want you holding a baby chick instead.  So soft is your grip to become that a sudden breeze increase could rip 'em out of your delicate grasp entirely!

 

All this down may seem uncomfortable in the beginning, but with more time on the handles it will become natural.  All the down makes the sail "more square to the wind".  Means you're getting every ounce of wind pressure applied to the sail.  You may have to walk backwards or pump (NOT snappy yanking) the handles smoothly.  If you were indoors you'd have to move the kite, move your hands and move your feet, or some combination of the three to make your own wind.  Now take this newly understood skill-set outside and you'll find you can make the kite fly the same way.

 

The kite will do what you want it to do, but not if you remain locked in concrete physically!

 

There's a difference in the flight dynamics between the two models, but just because some aspect of flight is more demanding of the pilot doesn't mean it's completely impossible.  The SLE can be flown all smooth & graceful, but most everyone prefers more flex and less weight than those thick tubes can offer.  There will be a day when these tubes are appropriate!  Placing two sets of leading edge tubes into the sleeve is okay, getting 'em out is way too tough for me though.  Huge wind calls for fat SLE sticks even if they don't see daylight very often.

 

Drop your flying line attachment points from the kite onto a well placed stake, see if your handles align perfectly when yanked tight.  I do this comparison with the left handle on the right side, then for flight switch 'em back to preferred locations.  

 

You want everything even, neutral tuning and some decent smooth wind to practice.  You can make the kite do whatever you want, just not maybe the first time you try.  A skill worth having is not freely given and you have to earn making it all look effortless too!  Epic skills took practice sessions that ended long after everyone else went home.

 

Given a choice of flying conditions, most of us would prefer to fly weaves or vented kites.  They are slower and smoother in flight than full sails.  My full sailed kites last half as long as the others, simply because they are used that much more frequently.

 

Yes, the inverted slide seems to be easier.

 

I'll use your advice to do the easier moves first before tackling the harder ones.

 

But I have a feeling I am going to try the small, but important step I missed, as stated by kwmf.

 

Thank you!



#9 stroke survivor

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

The lines themselves aren't shorter, but the leaders are very different from each other! By using long tops and short bottoms, you "square up" the kite to the wind and use it more efficiently! Most EXP or SLE handles come with equal pigtails on the top and bottom, most of us keep the bottoms and make our own longer top ones! You will feel a big difference!


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#10 MarshallPlacid

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:42 AM

^

Ah okay.


I see what you mean.

 

The top pigtails are customized to triple or quadruple knots (longer than the bottom pigtails) so that you can adjust the length of the top lines, so that the top lines are made longer that way.

 

So, this makes the brake lines "Shorter" on the bottom and I should feel a difference.


Will try this! 

 

Thanks.



#11 REVflyer

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:43 AM

You now understand the principles, the rest is developing your own comfortable style, grip position, preferred flight dynamics, and settings. There is no one correct solution, instead imagine it's a destination (w/many routes to choose from on how to arrive there). The name of that distination is neutral, controlled& comfortable stationary hover. When you own you hover you don't think about how the water flows out of the tap, it just happens all by itself, ...like magic the water always flows. You and your Rev kites can reach the destination, but NOT by solely empowering your Visa card. At some point you put it the hours
yourself.

The reason many of us have been doing this for years is because it's as much fun after 2 decades as it was the first time. There is always something to work or learn better. The Rev platform itself is very easy to experiment with and lots of folks share your passion wherever you go.

I spend more on travel than the kites ever cost me.

#12 stroke survivor

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:38 AM

You got the idea - now to find your sweet spot! As REVflyer  said, there is no one absolute setting that works for everyone! Fly and over time you find what works for you!! If you can meet up with other fliers, you can really shorten up the learning curve, but that doesn't mean you can't learn alone!! There is no substitute for "time on lines", the more you fly, the more you understand how the kite works!!

 

Enjoy the journey!!


wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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