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Loose ferrule?


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#1 dragonfish

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:07 PM

Recently I discovered a ferrule that would move a tiny bit.  I can pull/push/twist it about 1/8th of an inch, and then it would be stuck again.  If I apply force in the opposite direction, it would loosen and move the same amount and be stuck again.  How concerned should I be?  Do I need to find a way to remove it (any ideas how?) so I can reglue it ASAP?  Or should I just check on it frequently and deal with it when (if) I can pull it out?  Thanks.  



#2 QuadCrazy

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

If the a glimmer of a gap between the ferrule and the rod,stand it on end and put a drop of super glue and let it capillar in.
Give it 20 minutes before testing.

What wrap spar is it
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Edited by QuadCrazy, 18 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.

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#3 kwmf

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:23 AM

One method you can use to 'shock' ot free is to build up some tape on the end of the ferrule to form a sort of stopper and then drop the spar vertically on the ferrule to to 'shock' it loose.

 

I've had this before and then had the ferrule stick tight again ... I keep a close eye on it at that point.



#4 AldenMiler

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:04 AM

Since it hasn't fallen out completely I'd try what Mark suggests.  If it falls all the way out go with Steve's suggestion.

 

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#5 dragonfish

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:34 PM

Well, something happened between then and now.  While prodding it a little more to see if there was a gap I could get some super glue in, I noticed that it seemed looser than before.  So I tried twisting and pulling some more and it actually inched its way out.  I guess I know what to do now.  

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.  

 

By the way, Mark, it's an EXP spar, which I believe is 3 wrap.  



#6 Jim Foster

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

This has happened to us many times.  I believe that, over time, with the flexing of the leading edge spars during flight, the glue used in production finds it's way loose.  When I find that condition I remove the ferrule, carefully scrape off the old glue and use super glue to re-install the ferrule.  I wrap masking tape around the ferrule at the point where you want the ferrule to stop sliding into the spar, as once you apply the glue to the ferrule and start sliding it into the spar, it should be done quickly.  The tape provides a "stop" so that the glue does not set up before the ferrule is "home", or you don't slide the ferrule too far in and the glue set before you can pull back out to the proper place.   Just a tip.

 

Lynn and I do a lot of flying.  When I am washing our kites, or otherwise " messing" with them, I always pull the center spar out and do my best to try to twist the ferrules out of the center spar, thus avoiding the chance of pushing a ferrule all the way into the spar during assembly, which is a major pain, or pushing it in all but a half inch or so, allowing assembly, but after a short time it will splinter the end of the outer spar.  The latter happened to one of our team members just yesterday.

 

Hope this helps.


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#7 RevWizard

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 08:46 PM

This has happened to us many times.  I believe that, over time, with the flexing of the leading edge spars during flight, the glue used in production finds it's way loose.  When I find that condition I remove the ferrule, carefully scrape off the old glue and use super glue to re-install the ferrule.  I wrap masking tape around the ferrule at the point where you want the ferrule to stop sliding into the spar, as once you apply the glue to the ferrule and start sliding it into the spar, it should be done quickly.  The tape provides a "stop" so that the glue does not set up before the ferrule is "home", or you don't slide the ferrule too far in and the glue set before you can pull back out to the proper place.   Just a tip.

 

Lynn and I do a lot of flying.  When I am washing our kites, or otherwise " messing" with them, I always pull the center spar out and do my best to try to twist the ferrules out of the center spar, thus avoiding the chance of pushing a ferrule all the way into the spar during assembly, which is a major pain, or pushing it in all but a half inch or so, allowing assembly, but after a short time it will splinter the end of the outer spar.  The latter happened to one of our team members just yesterday.

 

Hope this helps.

Ditto 100%

Jim has the experience and definitely knows what he is talking about.


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#8 Jim Foster

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

Thank you for the kind words John....

Lynn says Hi........


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#9 SkyPuppet

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:28 AM

Uh oh.
The ferrule on my 2 wrap center spar (Zen) broke loose the other day. Finally got some more crazy glue, and set about to fix it today. Well I dropped the spar while fitting the ferrule back in, and before I picked it up the glue had set - the ferrule is sticking out almost a .25" too far.

Anyone have any tips for breaking loose a totally fastened ferrule?

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#10 stroke survivor

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

While not perfect, that shouldn't be a huge problem being a little off like that!! But make sure that rod fits up tight to the wing spar, even gently filing or sanding any glue sticking out of the joint! I lost an Indoor rod from a small glue trail left on my center spar ferrule once! The trail made a small high point that caused the wing spar to break! Just make sure the rods "seat" tightly together at the joint!


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#11 SkyPuppet

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

While not perfect, that shouldn't be a huge problem being a little off like that!! But make sure that rod fits up tight to the wing spar, even gently filing or sanding any glue sticking out of the joint! I lost an Indoor rod from a small glue trail left on my center spar ferrule once! The trail made a small high point that caused the wing spar to break! Just make sure the rods "seat" tightly together at the joint!


Thanks Wayne!
However, I just actually measured and the ferrule is sticking out a good half inch past the end of the spar... it just feels like too much... I'm still open to tips for getting the ferrule un-glued. Gonna try the local hobby store tomorrow see if they have a solvent or something.

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#12 hyzakite

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:10 PM

Do you mean the ferrule is sticking out 1/2" further than the ferrule on the other side of the rod? If so, that isn't anything to worry about, ferrule lengths are sometimes different in the same rod, remember crazy glue doesn't have any shear strength to speak of that's why it broke loose in the first place, you could put it in the freezer for awhile and tap on the side of the ferrule to break it free, acetone/nail polish remover will work too. I wouldn't worry about it unless you attach it to a helmet and hang from a beam as see on TV.



#13 SkyPuppet

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

Do you mean the ferrule is sticking out 1/2" further than the ferrule on the other side of the rod? If so, that isn't anything to worry about, ferrule lengths are sometimes different in the same rod, remember crazy glue doesn't have any shear strength to speak of that's why it broke loose in the first place, you could put it in the freezer for awhile and tap on the side of the ferrule to break it free, acetone/nail polish remover will work too. I wouldn't worry about it unless you attach it to a helmet and hang from a beam as see on TV.


Unfortunately it is sticking out .5" past the halfway point on the ferrule itself. I like the freezer idea but its the center spar from a Zen! I'll try nail polish remover tomorrow.

Thanks for the tips!

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#14 kwmf

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:25 PM

Mechanical option .... drop the rod vertically on the offending ferrule and shock it loose.

 

Normal run of the mill CA glue doesn't have good sheer or impact resistance (although you do get formulations now that do much much better) so a sudden shock can jolt it free.

 

That said, nail polish remover IS an appropriate solvent and you do get commercial debonders. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superglue



#15 REVflyer

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:59 AM

don't use CA Glue, instead mix a good portion of 5 minute epoxy (waste some to insure the proper proportions of each component) to reaffix the ferrule.  There's just no point in using something that isn't shock resistant for the repairs!



#16 SkyPuppet

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:06 AM

Mechanical option .... drop the rod vertically on the offending ferrule and shock it loose.
 
Normal run of the mill CA glue doesn't have good sheer or impact resistance (although you do get formulations now that do much much better) so a sudden shock can jolt it free.


Thanks Steven, you posted this tip earlier in this column, and I have tried it repeatedly, going so far as to throw the spar ferrule-first at the ground - this sucker just won't break loose! I've also tried whacking it against a hard surface, hoping the vibrations would loosen it up. I used Loctite brand crazy glue. Thanks for seconding the nail polish suggestion.

Thanks for the suggestions, as always, REVflyer. However epoxy sounds like overkill when I can't even break cheap CA glue loose lol.

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#17 Jeepster

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:05 AM

A couple of years back, at Kite Party, Laura pulled out her Zen on a very light wind day.  The ferrule had come loose and rendered the kite useless.

 

She had paid for a ticket to travel across the US, paid for a number of nights in a very nice motel, paid for her meals, even paid for the darn Zen ... but, because of a simple loose ferrule, all that money was wasted on that morning.  Epoxy is not overkill ...

 

I'd even coach you to go further: 1) remove the dried glue from the ferrule and sand the glued half to increase bondage ... then degrease with a solvent  2) clean the inside of the rod (tube) with a roll of sandpaper or a gun cleaning brush ... then degrease with a solvent  3) apply a thin coat of epoxy to the inside of the rod and the sanded end of the ferrule 4) insert the ferrule, twisting it slowly as you insert it to about a quarter inch from the correct depth, clean off the excess epoxy and then insert it to the correct depth ... then tape the ferrule in place until the epoxy dries.  When done like this, I've yet to have one come loose.

 

Cheers,

Tom



#18 SkyPuppet

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:27 AM

Thanks for the advice Tom.
I followed your steps almost exactly, but used crazy glue in place of the epoxy.

The reason I said epoxy is overkill is I've had to fix a ferrule on almost every center spar I own. I've fixed them all with crazy glue, and after the fix, not one of them has broke loose again. I'm thinking I will change to epoxy though, not because of its adhesive properties, but because I can mix it so it doesn't set instantly. On this recent repair, I dropped the spar, and literally within the 5 seconds that it took me to pick it up, the crazy glue had set into all the little rough areas I had purposefully sanded onto the ferrule/spar. It is glued very well now.

Nail polish remover awaits! Tonight.

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#19 hyzakite

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:15 AM

To me, 1/2" past the halfway point isn't enough to worry about, I've seen these ferrules in so many different lengths, from the shortest ones to the longest ones they might differ my a few inches. If I lived in the desert or by a beach I'd put the ferrule in while the rod is under some sand! And, we all know how great sand works holding rods and ferrules together or rods and endcaps together. I have some rods that the ferrules came loose, I've put them back in without glue, they won't go too far. Actually I want to remove some ferrules from my SPL rods, no need to hind those rods inside leading edge pocket.



#20 mystainedskin

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:12 PM

I have used boiling water and immerse that end of the rod ti free or loosen the glue. Just stick it in for 30 seconds at a time until it pulls free.
 




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