67 replies to this topic

[--Pete]

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I just wish I could think of something to protect those inside joints, in the leading edge.
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I use silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut off square, into 1/4" lengths
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Have you considered cutting a few 3/8 or 1/2 inch pieces and placing them on the ends of the center spar (or on the inner ends of the outer spars) so that they extend 1/8 inch beyond the end of the spar. When you assemble the LE spar, the 1/8 extension would cover the joint and keep the sand out. You should still be able to assemble and disassemble the LE spar without too much trouble. With clear tubing, you should be able to see that you had the joint tightly assembled.

[Reef Runner]

Have you considered cutting a few 3/8 or 1/2 inch pieces and placing them on the ends of the center spar (or on the inner ends of the outer spars) so that they extend 1/8 inch beyond the end of the spar. When you assemble the LE spar, the 1/8 extension would cover the joint and keep the sand out. You should still be able to assemble and disassemble the LE spar without too much trouble. With clear tubing, you should be able to see that you had the joint tightly assembled.

Hi Pete, Great suggestion, and yep, I've considered that, but there is always the problem of sliding the LE edge pieces, in and out of the LE sleeve. They always catch, where the upright spars connect to the LE.

Now as for the clear stuff, that sounds like vinyl tubing, rather than surgical (silicon) tubing. I've never seen any clear surgical tubing, and I'm sure that you are aware, there is a big difference. I had a friend that bought some of the clear vinyl tubing from Lowe's, but it doesn't have the stretch and clinging power, and basically, it's got to be the exact correct inside diameter, and then, it will still slip, pretty easily. Do you have some clear silicon, or surgical tubing ? I'm always up for an experiment !!!

[--Pete]

Yeah, the silicone tubing is not really transparent, but you should be able to see or at least feel, whether the rods are seated completely. (No I don't have some special silicone tubing.) There are some fairly different versions of the vinyl tubing with more or less stickiness, pliability, wall thickness. I like a thin-walled version of the tubing sold under the brand-name of Tygon. It's pretty sticky, so it will stay in place fairly well if purchased just slightly smaller than the OD of the spar. Dipping it in hot water will make it more pliable. Make sure the spar is free of any oil by wiping with alcohol or the like. McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) sells quite a variety of Tygon tubing in the US.

If it wants to catch, you might try beveling the ends of the tubing a bit. Also put the tubing on the outer spars so you can manipulate them as you go past the tight spot.

Edited by --Pete, 02 December 2010 - 12:39 PM.

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

If it wants to catch, you might try beveling the ends of the tubing a bit. Also put the tubing on the outer spars so you can manipulate them as you go past the tight spot.

Given the use of The Decs kites over many years in sandy conditions we have not ever had any serious problems with degradation of kit apart from the minor inconvenience of requiring good rotational grip to remove end caps or separate spars.

<grins>

Felix

[kwmf]

Well I have just converted a broken 4-wrap spar to a beach kite stake, so I'll get a real good feel for what the sand will do to the rods

I also got my Blasts from TK which are 4-5 years old and the ends are just white, but still feel fine to me. My guess is that it's not a problem at all, but the O-rings are a simple, easy and cheap solution to make me feel better without needing any work, modification or impairing the handling in any way.

My guess is that the collective Rev commununity would endorse any such 'mod' that makes a pilot feel better and gets them flying more
(my theory and I'm sticking to it)

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>
My guess is that the collective Rev commununity would endorse any such 'mod' that makes a pilot feel better and gets them flying more
(my theory and I'm sticking to it)

Quite right too. The adequate 'rotational grip' is the key thing that may be missing!

Felix

[stroke survivor]

After several sessions where takedown became an issue - adding the "o" rings to help with dis assembly, worked for me!! There were times when no amount of twisting or beating or cursing did anything!!! Seemed like a cheap and easy fix to a frustrating problem!!!

[Reef Runner]

After several sessions where takedown became an issue - adding the "o" rings to help with dis assembly, worked for me!! There were times when no amount of twisting or beating or cursing did anything!!! Seemed like a cheap and easy fix to a frustrating problem!!!

I'm with you Wayne. Obviously, some of our comrades in flight, just haven't hit that right combination of, "gap" between the end cap and spar, and the right size sand. The sand that I fly on, in the summer, is so fine, that nothing is sacred, and no crevice is spared. When it gets into that "gap", I have actually had to use pliers, to break them loose, and then, I was always concerned that I was going to shatter the spar, or do even more damage, with the pliers. (I did use a towel to protect the end caps and spars from the pliers) And then, when it would finally break loose, there would be this awful grinding and crunching sound, and then, sand would just pour out. I totally agree, on the very "cheap fix", to a very frustrating problem, whether it be O-rings or surgical tubing, whatever works. Since I equipped all of my rods with surgical tubing, I have had "zero" problems, and take down has been a breeze !!!

[stroke survivor]

This fall at the Lincoln City festival, on Saturday, I was flying my older Rev1, in the rain with Ben and Scotty and some of Island Quad. When it came time to take down because the rain was unbearable, I couldn't release one cap from a vertical! :kid_cussing:I finally got it loose in my hotel room, Watty knows how much of a struggle that was, and reminded myself to put them on that kite from now on!! Talk about sand!!! Haven't had any problems since!! Just one of the ideas I've taken from the forum and used or adapted for my own situation!! Rotational grip!!! If it leads to more time flying and less time fussing, .......

[makatakam]

I have only flown once on sand, full vent Phantom, and used the vinyl caps that came with the kite. Had no problem with disassembly. Howerver, the guy I flew with at Lunt Beach (Illinois, north of Chicago, Lake Michigan lakefront), had to take his home partially assembled because he didn't have any with him. It dawned on me that the most effective and lightest (six of those vinyl caps add weight to a ul) method of keeping the sand out is to wrap the junction of the plastic cap and the rod with 1-1/2 to 2 wraps of 3M blue painters' masking tape. It adds a couple minutes to the set-up time, but not one grain of sand can get in. This tape sticks very well to the spar and endcap, but not very well to itself, so its quite easy to remove.

I am a firm believer in K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid).

[Wayne]

I'm with you Wayne. Obviously, some of our comrades in flight, just haven't hit that right combination of, "gap" between the end cap and spar, and the right size sand. The sand that I fly on, in the summer, is so fine, that nothing is sacred, and no crevice is spared. When it gets into that "gap", I have actually had to use pliers, to break them loose, and then, I was always concerned that I was going to shatter the spar, or do even more damage, with the pliers. (I did use a towel to protect the end caps and spars from the pliers) And then, when it would finally break loose, there would be this awful grinding and crunching sound, and then, sand would just pour out.

It definitely is a particle size issue. I have flown at several beaches without significant issues. Only one, Belmar, NJ, has the perfect size grains to weld 2-wrap and race rods to the end caps. Some, like Wildwood, NJ have smaller grains that usually come out easier, while others have coarser grains that don't get in the gaps. Any approach that increases the diameter of the end of the rod or reduces the end of the cap will stop the problem. I have not experienced problems with 3 or 4 wrap rods yet.

[stroke survivor]

For those who are thinking of going the "o" ring method, take both a 3 wrap and either a 2 wrap or race rod with you!! The same "o" ring will work on 3 or 4 wraps, but race and 2 wrap use another size!!In a pinch, the smaller "o" ring will work on the larger rods, but having both sizes is a good thing!!! I weighed them, only a gram each, so 4 "o" rings are pretty light!!

[mbro]

@ Wayne.
I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?
Michael

[kwmf]

I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?

2 for the leading edge tips and 2 for the bottom of the verticals ... nothing needed on the top of the verticals.

I use this method on my beach revs as well, tape is bulletproof, but o-rings is just less hassle. Depending on the grain size the o-rings I have don't always keep out 100% of the finer stuff, but it keeps enough out to make dissassembly possible.

[Reef Runner]

It's been a long time since I commented on this subject, which can be found here, [ http://www.revkites....dpost__p__70320 ], or go back up to post #29 in this topic. Either way, after considerable flight time, since that post, I'm still sold on the surgical tubing method. Nothing wrong with the O-rings, at all, and several members seem to be having great results with them, although I have heard comments concerning the need for several different sizes, etc, as well as a minor bit if sand intrusion, still being a problem. It's just a matter of personal preference, I suppose, and what you have available.

I fly predominately on sand, and the surgical tubing has worked flawlessly, ever since I started using it. Also, I use the tubing at all six (6) junctions - both ends of the leading edge, and both the top and bottom, of both verticals. Yes, the upper verticals already have factory supplied dust covers, but fine sand can still get in, especially with 2-wraps & race rods.

Again, I've never had a grain of sand, to get into any joint, using the surgical tubing (silicon tubing with a 3/8" OD x 3/16" ID, cut into 1/4" lengths), and now I have it on each end, of each frame section, that goes into an end-cap, and I see no reason to remove it. I leave the tubing on the spars, whether then are in the kite, or not. The tubing is cheap, and you can make up a lot of 1/4" pieces, out of a foot or so. I keep spare sections, already cut to size, along with an end-cap, in a small baggie, in my flight bag. I've never had to replace a piece yet, but I like to be prepared, just in case. Oh, and at home on the workbench, is the place to cut the sections of tubing (with a sharp razor blade), NOT in the field.

As for installation, the dry tubing can be a bit stubborn, to initially slide into the exact position, on the spar, but if you will wet the end of the spar, with a little bit of good "old fashioned spit", the tubing will slide into place easily. Use an end-cap, to push the piece of tubing, onto the spar, just barely short (1/2 mm) of the full depth, and once it dries on the spar, it's rare to have to mess with it again. From then on, when you assemble the kite, the bungees keep the end-caps pressed snuggly against the end of surgical tubing, preventing the entry of the pesky sand................just my 2 cents worth.

[stroke survivor]

@ Wayne.
I'm a little confused , don't you put an "o" ring on each spar that has a end cap, that would be 6 wouldn't it?
Michael

Steven is correct, the factory dust covers work well enough for me!! I just use them (the "o" rings) on the bottoms of the verts and on the LE ends!! 4 total, almost no weight, much easier to take down - a simple solution to a pain in the @#@ problem!!! Seems like those 4 points take the majority of abuse!! But the race and 2 wrap rods are a different size from the 3-4 wrap rods, I keep both sizes in my bag (along with some extras) to use whenever I'm at the beach!! It's pretty easy to see the difference in sizes, so you know which to use on what rod!!

[Reef Runner]

Steven is correct, the factory dust covers work well enough for me!! I just use them (the "o" rings) on the bottoms of the verts and on the LE ends!! 4 total, almost no weight, much easier to take down - a simple solution to a pain in the @#@ problem!!! Seems like those 4 points take the majority of abuse!! But the race and 2 wrap rods are a different size from the 3-4 wrap rods, I keep both sizes in my bag (along with some extras) to use whenever I'm at the beach!! It's pretty easy to see the difference in sizes, so you know which to use on what rod!!

You guys just don't understand how fine this sand is, that I fly in. It's closer to talcum powder, than anything I know of. IF THERE IS A CRACK, IT'S GETTING IN THERE. The factory dust covers, on the top of the verticals, ARE NOT, adequate, for the sand that we experience, here on the east coast dunes, especially if you are flying 2-wrap, or race rods. You just can't believe it !

[--Pete]

If it is that fine, I would get the brown, almost gummy, so-called surgical tubing and actually cover the joint between cap and spar completely. It might take a bit of time to set up, but it would keep the sand out.

[stroke survivor]

At first, that's what I thought was being talked about, but I soon understood after Nick explained himself!! I mean the "o" ring and the tubing do just about the same thing, keep the sand out of the cap - rod connection!! Completely covering that connection would be a great way to keep this problem from occurring!! It would mean removing the "sand cap" and covering that joint!! If it saves in take down time, it's worth spending the time setting up!!

[kwmf]

If it's fine enough to sneak past everything you throw at it, a wrap or two of tape should do the trick.