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keeping sand out of endcaps


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#1 ilh

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 02:47 PM

Upon John Mitchell's recommendation, I put small pieces of silicone tubing over the end of the endcaps. They fit the spars tight enough to hopefully keep out most of the sand that makes spar removal difficult at times.

I ended up using soft silicone tubing, 5/16-inch ID, 7/16-inch OD, 1/16-inch wall. I bought it at mcmaster.com, part number 5236 K892. I used about 1/2-inch length for each of the wing endcaps and downspar endcaps. The weight is only 0.8g each.

Depending on the spars in use (e.g., 2-, 3-, 4-wrap) and the size of the sand grains at various beaches, at times it would really seem as though the endcaps were stuck on for good.

--Lee

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#2 AdventureAng

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 06:04 AM

Yeah, I've always wondered why the "sand caps" on the Revs are closer to the leading edge and not on the bottoms instead. I had a heck of a time getting my caps off this weekend when I was flying in Asbury Park. When I fly in Wildwood though, the sand is so fine there that it doesn't create a problem, but other beaches the sand is bigger and jams up the spars in the caps. I like your solution of that silicone tubing at the end; I'll have to try that.
~AdventureAng
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#3 RevWizard

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:15 AM

Upon John Mitchell's recommendation, I put small pieces of silicone tubing over the end of the endcaps. They fit the spars tight enough to hopefully keep out most of the sand that makes spar removal difficult at times.

I ended up using soft silicone tubing, 5/16-inch ID, 7/16-inch OD, 1/16-inch wall. I bought it at mcmaster.com, part number 5236 K892. I used about 1/2-inch length for each of the wing endcaps and downspar endcaps. The weight is only 0.8g each.

Depending on the spars in use (e.g., 2-, 3-, 4-wrap) and the size of the sand grains at various beaches, at times it would really seem as though the endcaps were stuck on for good.

--Lee

Silicon tubing works great as long as your spars and leading edge pocket are free of sand first.
If your spar picks up sand inside, it will get into the endcaps from the inside.
You need to insure first that you:
- blow all the sand out of your leading edge pocket.
- blow all the sand out of the inside of your spars and end caps.
Then connect the end caps to the spars.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#4 AdventureAng

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:17 AM

Silicon tubing works great as long as your spars and leading edge pocket are free of sand first.
If your spar picks up sand inside, it will get into the endcaps from the inside.
You need to insure first that you:
- blow all the sand out of your leading edge pocket.
- blow all the sand out of the inside of your spars and end caps.
Then connect the end caps to the spars.


Funny you should mention that...I blew out the sand and forgot that the sand would come back up into my eyes, nose, mouth, and anywhere else sand tends to go. Yeah, I felt pretty stupid after that because it's one of those things you do that you KNOW is going to do something bad, but you do it anyway. ::shakes head:: hahahha
~AdventureAng
Happy flying to everybody. Now get off the computer and get a kite out! hehe

#5 Kitelife

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 10:20 AM

I just whack it with a spar.

John Barresi

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#6 AdventureAng

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:40 AM

I just whack it with a spar.



Ah,...that works too. AND keeps the sand out of your eyes too. good thinking John.
~AdventureAng
Happy flying to everybody. Now get off the computer and get a kite out! hehe

#7 Kitelife

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:44 AM

Same thing if I've got those super sandy leading edges on a humid evening... Take out one of the vertical spars and apply a quick, liberal tapping all the way up and down the leading edge of your Rev, with special attention paid to the wing tips.

This is NOT a license to go out and abuse your kite, just give it a friendly spanking. :kid_devlish:

John Barresi

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#8 ilh

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 11:53 AM

I just wack my boys on the head with a spar to clear the sand.

--Lee

P.S. First posting from my iPhone. B)

#9 FortFlyer

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 02:26 PM

I just whack it with a spar.


John that is not family oriented talk for this forum :unsure: although I guess it is Kite Related :wacko: oh man my sides are killing me, thanks
Jim,
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#10 MrDenny

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 02:30 PM

I just wack my boys on the head with a spar to clear the sand.

--Lee

P.S. First posting from my iPhone. B)



Gee, I wondered why you included your whole address book with the post. Good thing John edited it out.

Denny #12

.. .


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#11 Wayne

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:18 PM

I got the silicone tubing that Lee used, but being an engineer, I am still considering other options. Has anyone tried heat-shrinkable tubing on the end of the spars? Since my employer used to make it, I found some old stock that fits well. With careful use of heat, I shrank 1" pieces of it on one end of my race rods, for testing at the Wildwood festival. I will bring extra to share with the gang there.
This brings my 0.287" rods to 0.320", leaving about a 0.025" gap, the same as I get with the silicone tubing (compared to 0.060" with nothing). It can't turn sticky like electrical tape, and if it stays on it will cushion the connection in the end caps. Thoughts anyone?

Wayne Reed
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#12 RevWizard

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:54 PM

I got the silicone tubing that Lee used, but being an engineer, I am still considering other options. Has anyone tried heat-shrinkable tubing on the end of the spars? Since my employer used to make it, I found some old stock that fits well. With careful use of heat, I shrank 1" pieces of it on one end of my race rods, for testing at the Wildwood festival. I will bring extra to share with the gang there.
This brings my 0.287" rods to 0.320", leaving about a 0.025" gap, the same as I get with the silicone tubing (compared to 0.060" with nothing). It can't turn sticky like electrical tape, and if it stays on it will cushion the connection in the end caps. Thoughts anyone?

Shrink tube would be fine for a one time only. The problem is that when shrink tube is shrunk it is to a certain size. Meaning what your heat gun shrank it to, which would in this case be your rod. It will expand slightly as you remove the rods and hold that expansion, thus sand will get in. You will also have the problem of getting the rod back inside of the shrink tube. Silicon tube stretches and returns. But in time it does wear out to where it does not hold tightly on the rod anymore.
I still prefer the silicon tube for sandy conditions, unfortunately I don't have it all my REVs.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#13 Jeepster

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 06:03 PM

Shrink tube would be fine for a one time only. The problem is that when shrink tube is shrunk it is to a certain size. Meaning what your heat gun shrank it to, which would in this case be your rod. It will expand slightly as you remove the rods and hold that expansion, thus sand will get in. You will also have the problem of getting the rod back inside of the shrink tube. Silicon tube stretches and returns. But in time it does wear out to where it does not hold tightly on the rod anymore.
I still prefer the silicon tube for sandy conditions, unfortunately I don't have it all my REVs.


John,

I think you and Wayne are discussing two different approaches ... of course it could be me who's off track.

I think Wayne is talking about putting a one inch long piece of shrink tubing over the end of the rod only. Then the rod and shrink tubing are inserted into the end cap ... the shrink tubing never goes on the outside of the end cap. His approach takes up most of the gap between the rod OD and the end cap ID with the shrink tubing and only allows very fine grains of sand into the end cap.

Your method, if I understand it correctly, is to use surgical tubing to grip the OD of the rod and the OD of the end cap ... thus, eliminating any opportunity for sand to enter the end cap.

Yes?

Cheers,
Tom

#14 Jeepster

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 06:14 PM

Yeah, I've always wondered why the "sand caps" on the Revs are closer to the leading edge and not on the bottoms instead. I had a heck of a time getting my caps off this weekend when I was flying in Asbury Park. When I fly in Wildwood though, the sand is so fine there that it doesn't create a problem, but other beaches the sand is bigger and jams up the spars in the caps. I like your solution of that silicone tubing at the end; I'll have to try that.


Ang,

Do you ever have trouble with sand getting into the "sand cap" ...joint? Theoretically the sand can enter through the bottom end cap on the vertical and travel up through the rod to enter the top end cap under the "sand cap", but does that happen?

If sand doesn't get into that joint, it would seem that "sand caps" on the other four caps would solve the jamming problem. They would work just like John M's surgical/silicon tubing, but look a little more elegant.

Thanks,
Tom

#15 RevWizard

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:16 PM

Tom,
I don't believe shrink tube over the end of the rod would work, as you will most likely have problems getting the rod into the cap. Shrink tube is just not thin enough. Oh yes, I have worked in the electronic industry for a long time and I have worked with all kinds of shrink tube. Then you have the problem that the rods vary in diameter from 2 to 3 to 4 wrap and now the RR, even on the same wrap rod. Caps also vary slightly on the ID.
It would most likely be more of headache then it is worth.

John


John,

I think you and Wayne are discussing two different approaches ... of course it could be me who's off track.

I think Wayne is talking about putting a one inch long piece of shrink tubing over the end of the rod only. Then the rod and shrink tubing are inserted into the end cap ... the shrink tubing never goes on the outside of the end cap. His approach takes up most of the gap between the rod OD and the end cap ID with the shrink tubing and only allows very fine grains of sand into the end cap.

Your method, if I understand it correctly, is to use surgical tubing to grip the OD of the rod and the OD of the end cap ... thus, eliminating any opportunity for sand to enter the end cap.

Yes?

Cheers,
Tom


Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#16 RevWizard

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 08:24 PM

Ang,

Do you ever have trouble with sand getting into the "sand cap" ...joint? Theoretically the sand can enter through the bottom end cap on the vertical and travel up through the rod to enter the top end cap under the "sand cap", but does that happen?

If sand doesn't get into that joint, it would seem that "sand caps" on the other four caps would solve the jamming problem. They would work just like John M's surgical/silicon tubing, but look a little more elegant.

Thanks,
Tom

Sand can easily travel the rod to the other end and even come out when you separate rods, thus getting on the ferrule. Then you have the problem that it gets inside the leading edge pocket, which means it gets back into the rods. You have to flush out the leading edge pocket and the rods at the same time.
Particularly irritating is very fine sand. Course sand I find is not much of a problem. It varies from beach to beach.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#17 Wayne

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 04:58 AM

Tom,

Yes, I am referring to applying shrink tubing over the end of the rod, making the rod OD larger for a closer fit to the ID of the end caps. The shrink tubing I am using (not sure if the size I am using is commercially available) adds 0.016" wall when shrunk to the race rod, which gives these rods a better fit. I am using 5/16" expanded tubing which shrinks less (to a thinner wall) to fit the rod than 3/8" expanded which seems much more available (like McMaster #7496K44) but should also work. I intend to use it only on race and 2-wrap rods, as the 3-wrap and 4-wrap have larger OD's already and might be too tight with the extra layer, as John rightfully points out. I intend to use the silicone tubing over the end cap also, which will provide protection for all the rods.

I have fitted 2 sets of race rods with shrink tubing to go with 2 Revs now equipped with the silicone tubing. I probably will get my first testing opportunity at Wildwood, so I will see how durable and practical they are at that time.

Thanks for the feedback. I will report my findings after I actually get to fly them.

Wayne Reed
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#18 Reef Runner

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Posted 05 December 2009 - 06:23 PM

Hello, I'm just curious as to why not put the dust cover type end caps, like come on the top, for the vertical spars. Why not use these on the bottom and on the end of the leading edge ?
nick

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#19 Bazzer

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 06:25 PM

Whack and graunch them off is how John and the boys showed me.
Its always worked.
However like a good ex sound and lighting guy I still always carry a roll of PVC insulation tape in my pocket.
Once that is on there nothing gets in. It all depends on what sand type you have around you.
But on the whole. Hit it!....well tap.
If it remains a problem...fly on grass!
Bazzer

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#20 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 12:01 AM

Thats how I solved the sand problem, I made my home field a 22 acre park.........



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