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Best Answer Moggy, 27 May 2013 - 03:11 PM

Thank you all, making good use of everything you've thrown at me. Was able to take the kite out today and put everything I've read and seen into practice, and, my, what a difference.

 

Firstly, figured out the basic controls moreso thanks to the posts above and this nice little tut of the [Rev 1] from Joe Hadzicki himself (is that the one that is usually bundled with the SLE too?).

 

My error was doing far too much handle-pulling (like a dualie) and not enough thumb-pushing (wrist twisting). Assumed good control over the kite once I knew exactly what was required, actually I was surprised how quickly it takes to get a hang of it.

 

That said, 15mph winds might've been a tad gusty to learn more on - a jump in the deep end with a full sail, 80' lines and UL frame (maybe I should've put the SLE back in), ho ho - but very fun. Never had a kite that could move from the ground to the top of the window SO fast. The airborne equivalent of the Ariel Atom. The wind speed also - very quickly! - taught me the necessary lesson of brake vs. drive (forward, hover, reverse) using thumbed controls.

 

Was able to enjoy sustained flight, fly contentedly around the window, figure of 8's, land on cue, and even tried to push a few boundaries to see what it could do further.

 

In doing so everything everyone mentioned in this thread became crystal clear!!!

 

Where to begin. A few concurrences for you guys, hehe...

 

1) I need longer leaders on the top! Just to add a little damping. - It may have been the strong wind, but a few times I felt the kite wanted to go over the top of me (and beyond!), despite pushing both thumbs forward at times (maybe too late, however). I have no problems launching the kite, so longer leaders wouldn't be a problem.

 

2) Think I'll be buying a vented at some point! What's this, a second kite, already? Another non-surprise for you guys. wink.png Really think I will be needing a vented at the coast, though. 15mph is common, and a vented might help iron out the gusts somewhat.

 

3) It really is a massive bundle of fun.

 

4) Although 120' lines might be nice, I can't really use anything longer than 80' due to width limitations of local recreation grounds and beaches. Anything longer and people would almost have to walk underneath me, which I don't want, and they probably wouldn't want either! I'd travel further afield but am unable to drive due to health probs. :/

 

5) Tent pegs (as stakes) can be an absolute bugger to search for on both grass and beach if I fail to pick the peg up and put it into my pocket at the same time as picking up the handles. Will be putting in an order for a couple of Walt's marble stakes soon!

 

6) You guys are ace. But you already knew that. smile.png

 

Ty!

~Timo

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#41 stroke survivor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

OK - set aside the SLE tubes for now and use the ultra lights (3 wraps) to learn! The extra flex works for you! Just remember that if everything fails and you're gonna crash no matter what - Give to the Kite, step forward and take all the drive out of the kite! Let it crash, just gently! 

 

Yes, make some new top leaders ASAP, hers's a link to see what you are shooting for - http://www.revkites....-your-thoughts/ ! They allow you to set up the kite in a more neutral fashion! You have the factory leaders on now! If you were to look at the handles offered with the "B" package, you'll notice that they have longer top leaders supplied! Most of us use even longer top leaders yet! 

 

If you can go to a festival or meet with other fliers, that's highly recommended!!


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#42 Moggy

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

Thanks guys, will try and grab some thin tent/guy rope/string or similar very soon for customising leaders.

One thing I wanted to ask, given that the UL was mentioned over the SLE. How does the SLE differ to the UL LE in terms of flying characteristics? The SLE is clearly a lot larger and heavier, I initially thought it would therefore be slower and better to learn on?

Dunstable Downs looks a phenomenal place Stephen! Unfortunately I live 100+ miles north and have no transport to get there. :|

I'm currently in Whitby again (far north east), so will be able to get on the beach very soon. :D

#43 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:33 AM

I wouldn't use guy rope cord hour leaders it may be a bit springy see if you can get a few meters of bridle line from a kite trader.
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#44 stroke survivor

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:14 AM

The SLE tubes are stiff, so stiff that they hardly flex and that's the problem! The sail is cut to allow for some flex and create that "ball" of power in the center! Much less control results!! The UL (3 wrap) spars you have, are plenty strong to learn on!! Just remember to Give to the kite if you're about to crash, don't pull!!


wayne from portland
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#45 Moggy

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:19 AM

Ty all. :)

Took it down the beach a few days ago for a test flight but then found the guy who had the kite before had completely messed up the bridle on one side, was completely asymmetric so had to bring the kite home and undo the knots he had made on the one side. Seems he didn't know how to configure the double loop (where the horizontal and vertical bridle lines are attached) and he tried to compensate by wrapping the lines and tying a whole other bunch of knots instead.

Managed to get it sorted that night by untying and untangling everything, and then watching JohnB's bridle attachment tutorial on youtube (thanks again John!!).

Took it down to the beach the following day but just as I'd set it up the wind dropped to 0mph!

The following day it rained non stop, and now for the last 48 hours we've had 30-40mph winds!

Patience is a virtue. I WILL get it up someday!

#46 stroke survivor

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:33 AM

Sounds like the new kite curse is in full effect!! 


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#47 Moggy

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:00 AM

Finally managed to get it up for my first flight today, ultralight frame throughout, the wind was reported as 10mph. Extremely shaky at first, ditched it a good few times (giving to the kite really helped, Wayne, thankfully no ditches were heavy as a result). Furthermore, that 80' walk is sure a long way when a few people are watching (I even picked the most isolated beach and location to minimise this, alas still the embarrasment)!

Eventually got a feeling for the controls and was able to keep it in the sky and even land it gently on its feet mostly toward the end.

Soooo different to dual line kites. The controls are polar opposite! My brain was completely mashed for a while. It still is, I can't explain how I managed to keep it up in the sky, it felt more intuitive just to ignore my preconceptions of what should do what and instead used my fingers to feel the subtle pull of each line. As JB says it will all be about finding, building and retaining muscle memory.

I now have even greater respect (if that were possible) for the pros who make it look so easy on youtube!!

Furthermore, I can see how this can be very addictive! A bit like learning a Rubik's cube.

The wind has dropped to 5mph, the lines were sagging (had to move backwards a lot to generate upward thrust latterly) so had to call it a day today.

But the kite is great, worth waiting for!

Ty all :)

#48 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

Finally managed to get it up for my first flight today, ultralight frame throughout, the wind was reported as 10mph. Extremely shaky at first, ditched it a good few times (giving to the kite really helped, Wayne, thankfully no ditches were heavy as a result). Furthermore, that 80' walk is sure a long way when a few people are watching (I even picked the most isolated beach and location to minimise this, alas still the embarrasment)! Eventually got a feeling for the controls and was able to keep it in the sky and even land it gently on its feet mostly toward the end.

Don't be embarrassed we've all done it, and as for the 80ft lines stick with them for a while, you may already be aware that when we fly together we tend to use 120's and there are some on this forum who will try and tell you you need to splash out and buy a set ASAP, 'cos if the ain't 120's they ain't worth diddly. My feeling is that you will learn much quicker on the 80s and not just because you will spend less time walking and more time flying. Though the kite will appear faster because the window is smaller, the kite will be more responsive and feedback will be more positive, i.e. you will get a much better feel for the kite.

Soooo different to dual line kites. The controls are polar opposite! My brain was completely mashed for a while. It still is, I can't explain how I managed to keep it up in the sky, it felt more intuitive just to ignore my preconceptions of what should do what and instead used my fingers to feel the subtle pull of each line. As JB says it will all be about finding, building and retaining muscle memory.


To get your head round this one you don't have to forget the "pull left to turn left, pull right to turn right" of duel line flying, because you will need that, later but for the time being you need to put that technique to one side and learn to fly with your wrists. In its simplest form, flying duel line is like steering a wheeled vehicle, it goes in the direction you point it. You steer a Rev more like you steer a tracked vehicle, you you turn it by adjusting the drive on either side of the kite and the kite turns around the slower side, push your left thumb forward and the kite will turn left, push your right thumb forward and the kite will turn right.
You may well know all this and understand it, but to fly you need to learn it, so it becomes second nature, you need that knowledge in muscle, not brain. In truth, Flying a kite is about more than just pointing it in the right direction but until you have that sorted you are not going to progress. A good exercise is to Tuck your elbows into your sides, and imagine you have a strap around your chest and upper arms then you have to fly with your wrists, it isn't easy but it will help you to learn the technique. Once you have that you can release the elbows and relax and play with the slide because true Rev flying as about more than just pointing the kite in the right direction and many moves require a combination of techniques.

Above all the best piece of advice I can give is, "Enjoy the Journey".

Stone in Shoe Bob

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#49 stroke survivor

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:10 AM

As Bob has said, the "push/pull" of dualies is not needed right now! You will use it later, but to a much subtler amount! We used to joke about giving noobs a pair of handcuffs to wear, as they learn to fly! Impossible to use that "push/pull" style!

 

Simple beginning exercises - take off 5' high, hover, land on both tips. Multiple times in a row! Got it? Go higher and do the same hover and landing routine. Practice til you can launch to the top of the window and back it down under control, landing on both tips, almost everytime! You start to feel the kite telling you what it needs to straighten out!!

 

Enjoy the lifelong ride!!


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#50 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

The Survivor said it a lot more concisely than I did and he's set you another good exercise, but don't let us bully you into doing your homework, the exercises are good but don't over do them, a few minutes at a time is enough, remember this is supposed to be fun and if I becomes a chore you won't do it properly and you won't learn from it.

I really struggled with the inverted hover but one thing I learned in my struggle to find it was, never argue with the kite you have to be patient with it, if you feel it resisting you let it run feel where it wants to take you then coax it back an try again.
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#51 rexracer

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:29 PM

Lots of good advice, but I think the best was "have fun". I'm sure as you gain confidence you'll find lots of ways to practice your skills. I, like many, struggled to get the inverted hover. I kept "falling out" of it. The kite would start rocking and the next thing I'd spin out of the hover. I found it much easier to hover facing 5:00 or 7:00 for some reason. Once I realized that I just crept up on the 6:00 position and it worked.

Maybe one day I'll get to fly with someone who has real skill and I can take a big jump in skill level myself. I seem to live in a dead zone for kiting. If you get a chance to fly with other Rev fliers, it can only accelerate your learning curve.



#52 Moggy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:11 PM   Best Answer

Thank you all, making good use of everything you've thrown at me. Was able to take the kite out today and put everything I've read and seen into practice, and, my, what a difference.

 

Firstly, figured out the basic controls moreso thanks to the posts above and this nice little tut of the [Rev 1] from Joe Hadzicki himself (is that the one that is usually bundled with the SLE too?).

 

My error was doing far too much handle-pulling (like a dualie) and not enough thumb-pushing (wrist twisting). Assumed good control over the kite once I knew exactly what was required, actually I was surprised how quickly it takes to get a hang of it.

 

That said, 15mph winds might've been a tad gusty to learn more on - a jump in the deep end with a full sail, 80' lines and UL frame (maybe I should've put the SLE back in), ho ho - but very fun. Never had a kite that could move from the ground to the top of the window SO fast. The airborne equivalent of the Ariel Atom. The wind speed also - very quickly! - taught me the necessary lesson of brake vs. drive (forward, hover, reverse) using thumbed controls.

 

Was able to enjoy sustained flight, fly contentedly around the window, figure of 8's, land on cue, and even tried to push a few boundaries to see what it could do further.

 

In doing so everything everyone mentioned in this thread became crystal clear!!!

 

Where to begin. A few concurrences for you guys, hehe...

 

1) I need longer leaders on the top! Just to add a little damping. - It may have been the strong wind, but a few times I felt the kite wanted to go over the top of me (and beyond!), despite pushing both thumbs forward at times (maybe too late, however). I have no problems launching the kite, so longer leaders wouldn't be a problem.

 

2) Think I'll be buying a vented at some point! What's this, a second kite, already? Another non-surprise for you guys. wink.png Really think I will be needing a vented at the coast, though. 15mph is common, and a vented might help iron out the gusts somewhat.

 

3) It really is a massive bundle of fun.

 

4) Although 120' lines might be nice, I can't really use anything longer than 80' due to width limitations of local recreation grounds and beaches. Anything longer and people would almost have to walk underneath me, which I don't want, and they probably wouldn't want either! I'd travel further afield but am unable to drive due to health probs. :/

 

5) Tent pegs (as stakes) can be an absolute bugger to search for on both grass and beach if I fail to pick the peg up and put it into my pocket at the same time as picking up the handles. Will be putting in an order for a couple of Walt's marble stakes soon!

 

6) You guys are ace. But you already knew that. smile.png

 

Ty!

~Timo



#53 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

A couple of things you have said make me think that maybe you should be flying with a bit more break, though it is hard to be sure without a face to face.

As a newbie I would expect you to need a setup with a bit more drive than experienced fliers use. But it sounds like you are having trouble holding the kite back. You do need to be able to control the movement of the kite around the window, but Rev flying can be as much about holding position as it is about moving, especially when you start flying width others.

Most experienced fliers prefer a setup where with their wrists in a comfortable position the kite is more or less drive neutral. Though for a newbie this setup can be a bit daunting its far better to have a little more drive to start with and to reduce it as your confidence grows.
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#54 stroke survivor

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

Since you've already seen you need longer top leaders, remember the link to see what you're looking for! As Bob said, you're looking to make the kite neutral, drive wise! Might be more difficult to launch, but much easier to control flying!


wayne from portland
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#55 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

I wouldn't use guy rope cord hour leaders it may be a bit springy see if you can get a few meters of bridle line from a kite trader.

Failing that try a habadashers ideally you need a cored braided line. You need something tightly woven and personally I prefer something quite stiff what ever you do don't buy curtain cord it will have loads of stretch in it. And buy more than you think you will need, you will be surprised how much you loose to each knot.

Oh, and make up two identical sets its always good to have a spare set ready when one goes.
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#56 Moggy

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:59 AM

A couple of things you have said make me think that maybe you should be flying with a bit more break, though it is hard to be sure without a face to face.

 

Took the kite for another flight today... As I'm new to the feeling of flying a Rev, and that (to me) the kite feels more 'fragile' than dual kites, I think I overly engage drive on the kite when there is a sudden avalanche of wind in order to try and relieve stress on the sail itself, rather than me yank on the brake and allow it to take the full brunt of the wind and drag me (or I walk) forward for fear of damaging the sail (or very occasionally I also lose control and the sail can go ape-poo at high speed, ho ho). The wind inland is very unpredictable, one moment it's 3-4mph, then next it's a 15mph gust lasting a good 15 seconds or so.

 

I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs, although this is tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving of buffeting than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.

 

Or is 10-15mph too much for a full sail? ... That said, initially seems I need at least 10mph to get it up.

 

The left and right controls are fully figured out now though. smile.png

 

While the technicalities are still all very confuzzling at this stage, learning is enormous fun.



#57 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:10 PM

 
Took the kite for another flight today... As I'm new to the feeling of flying a Rev, and that (to me) it feels more 'fragile' than dual kites, I think I overly engage drive on the kite when there is a sudden avalanche of wind in order to try and relieve stress on the sail itself, rather than me yank on the brake and let it suddenly take the full brunt of the wind and drag me (or I walk) forward for fear of damaging the sail (or very occasionally I also lose control and the sail can go ape-poo at high speed, ho ho). The wind inland is very unpredictable, one moment it's 3-4mph, then next it's a 15mph gust lasting a good 15 seconds or so.
Don't worry too much abut this carbon fibre is way tougher than you would think, they make F1 cars out of the stuff the drives crash them at ridiculous speeds and then walk away. If I am flying and someone shows an interest and starts asking questions I will often offer them the handles to try. If I have already told them how much they cost the response is often "no I might break it, then I will drive it l/e first into the ground "doubt it" they are tougher than the look

As for letting the kite run in a gust, this one is actually counter intuitive, speed translates to pull if you let it run you will put more strain on the kite and your arms, don't ask me to explain the science, it messes with my head too.
 
I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs. It's tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.
I used to let it run to the top of the window, to see how close to directly above my head I could get it it won't go over. I think you have said in earlier post that you were worried about that, it just lays on top of the wind, still take my breath away.

Or is 10-15mph too much for a full sail? ... That said, initially seems I need at least 10mph to get it up.
Well if I had a vented kite I wouldn't be flying a full sail but if that's all you have, I always tell newbies not to worry too much about the kite, as I said above they are tougher than they look.
 
The left and right controls are fully figured out though. :)
Good.

While the technicalities are still all very conflicting and confuzzling at this stage, learning is enormous fun.
Enjoy.
Stone in Shoe Bob

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#58 Kitelife

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:15 PM

I'm learning how to take the kite to the edges of the window to take the stress out of the sail when this occurs, although this is tougher to get a grip on than dual-line kites as the Rev sail is flat and a little more unforgiving of buffeting than the sculpted air-funnelled wing of a dual.

 

Bear in mind, the sail of a loaded Rev isn't actually flat... Watch this:

 

http://youtu.be/2uLl6bWzuIs?t=1m50s

 

It curves and uncurves as load varies, making it far more versatile than any dual line kite in turbulent wind. smile.png

 

It may be flatt(ish) if you're using the SLE, but 98% of the forum members here will agree, 1/4" rods (2 wrap, 3 wrap, 4 wrap, race, etc) are the way to go.


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#59 Moggy

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:17 PM

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Had the most wonderful two hours flying today.  Everything seemed to 'click' into place and the overall control felt a lot more natural and intuitive. Was much more confident in controlling it and making it do (roughly!) what I want it to, and was less scared of the kite being damaged as a result. The wind was slightly lighter this time, about 10mph instead of 15mph, which also helped a great deal (a vented is now on my list for when it is windier!)

 

Seriously got the biggest smile on my face. smile.png It was fun before, but the fun factor has gone exponential. I can only imagine it will get more so as you continue to develop skills.

 

No hard ditches. Was able to use the inverted launch/hover to recover the few flops I did have. Only one brief walk of shame in the whole two hours, and that was only when the kite was already sitting on the ground and fell forward flat with the LE toward me (and I wasn't able to turn it by yanking on a single line).

 

Even got spontaneous applause from a chap walking a dog behind me (unbeknown to me) when I was practicing dive-stops!

 

Didn't even realise how much time had passed, got a slight hunger pang, looked at my watch and realised two hours had gone! Was so relaxing. I can easily see how this can become a way of life. wink.png Very glad I found the Rev world.

 

Bear in mind, the sail of a loaded Rev isn't actually flat... Watch this:

 

http://youtu.be/2uLl6bWzuIs?t=1m50s

 

It curves and uncurves as load varies, making it far more versatile than any dual line kite in turbulent wind. smile.png

 

That's amazing, guess they don't call them 'sails' for nothing! Looks very much like the individual sail(s) on a galleon ship but with dual rudders per sail.

 

galleon.jpg

 

I originally assumed the spars on the back of the Revs were to keep the sail stretched and flat as possible, clearly not so as they bend and support the sail. A lot of complex physics elements happening here! I can see how some people put the spars at the front (like a dual line kite) by accident, although the stress on the frame and sail might be greater. The workings play with your mind a bit.

 

John B, on another note - I have got to say - a huge thank you for all your tutorials on Kitelife (and youtube) - namely assembly/disassembly, line management (I unravelled and hooked up my lines today when setting up and there literally wasn't a single twist in them!), equalizing, setting up the bridles (something I needed to do when I got the kite second hand after the previous guy had it all knotted up), hovers (which I'm currently enjoying learning), flat relaunching (reduces the embarassment of the walk of shame, and increases the flying time) to name a few. They really have been incredibly useful to a solo learner/flyer like me, every one of them (as no instructions came with the kite). As well as your inspirational flying vids which almost single-handedly got me into Revs after stumbling upon them. We salute you!



#60 SparkieRob

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  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:06 PM

Great job, and true words.

"Inbetween heaven and earth, there are kites."





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