64 replies to this topic

[Moggy]

Hello from England. I've had a lot of fun with generic dual-line stunt kites over the years, but after looking to go to the 'next level' I happened to stumble upon the quad line Rev kites in American online shops (even though I'm British) and on Youtube and the fun factor looks exponential. I'm blown away by the available flexibility in controlling the kites (four [string] dimensions instead of just two), the idea of being able control the kite around and along any axes, regardless of which way it is facing. The aforementioned being less doable with the dual-line stunt kites as you tend to be restricted to going nose-forward most of the time, you can't easily invert (reverse) the flight path, stop the trajectory dead, slide along any angle, or do 360 wheeling on the spot, as it were! It's great to see what you may be able to achieve on the quad-lines with extensive experimentation and practice.

Here in the UK the prices are anything from £164 ($265) for a basic EXP through to £270 ($436) for a top-end B-Pro, or even up to £370 ($613) for a Blast or B-Pro-Extra.

I'd be flying it mostly on the sandy coastline of Whitby (North Yorkshire, England) with its variable North Sea breeze - anything from 5 to 25mph at any one time - but the average is usually between 6 and 15mph or so... I probably wouldn't fly it greater than 20mph anyway or I might end up being pulled across the water all the way to Norway.

When inland, the wind is 4-12mph or thereabouts.

As such, from the specifications on the Revkites website for each kite, I'm thinking a Mid-Vent with 2+3-wrap frame and 90lb line would likely be the best all-rounder?

While I've been grabbing all info I can get my sticky hands on, some of the terminology is new to me. When I was reading up about the switchable frames - http://revkites.com/...tion-spars-rods - I wondered why frames are referred to in terms of 'number of wraps'? I'm guessing the rods are sheets of carbon fibre rolled into tubes rather than being solid all the way through, therefore fewer wraps make for a lighter (if more vulnerable) frame?

At this stage I would only like to get just one really good kite to last me, would it be entirely foolish to jump straight in and get a B-Pro mid-vent? The craftsmanship and customisable colourizable design certainly is compelling.

As handles aren't included, and that I have no prior experience of using any, can anyone recommend all-rounder handles to go for? The myriad of available handles is perplexing to the unacquainted. If it bears any relevance, I guess I have slightly smaller than average hands for a guy - female-sized hands almost - but very tactile (I'm a pianist)!

Can any UK guys perhaps tell me where they shop for Rev kites and accessories? So far I've only found Kiteworld and Go-Kites.

I've been watching John's YouTube tutorials on the correct way to handle the kites when assembling/disassembling them etc.. Are there further instructions included with the kite when you buy it, on how to properly tether the lines to the kite, configure the bridle (if needed) etc.?

So many Q's. Thank you if you've read this far, I apologise for writing so much, I didn't intend to! Running before walking and all that. The Rev kites look inspirational.

Many thanks.
~Timo

[makatakam]

Hi, Timo, and welcome to the darkside!

My advice to all beginners is to start with a full-sail (no vents) regardless of the wind conditions in which you will normally find yourself. Your second Rev if when you become addicted will probably be a full-vent. This combo will cover overlapping wind ranges of 2-15 and 6-25 mph. The mid-vent is usually the last kite in most flyers' bags. Whether you decide to purchase an EXP or a B-Pro or something in between depends on how much you can spend. Buy one expensive one or two less expensive.

You are dead-on in your description of the spars. Yes, they are tubes, not solid rods. Less wraps means less weight and more flex, more wraps, the opposite except for "race rods". Don't worry about these for now, just get flying. Once you become adept at controlling the kite the options available will make more sense to you and you'll be able to make a more informed decision regarding what combination of rods and sail to fly in any given wind conditions.

Check e-Bay, Kitebookie, Kitelife, etc. for good deals on used sails and equipment. Short (11") handles will be easier to learn on because they limit the amount of input you can give the sail. Most beginners have the tendency to overcompensate and give the handles too much movement. This usually equals dropping to the ground.

I have very small hands for a guy, but just go with standard equipment to start. It all feels different to everyone at the outset. Fly with others in England, and there's a big bunch of flyers in England. They will be more than happy to help you get started, and you can get an idea of differences in individual preference and which may be more comfotable to you.

Good luck and don't forget to smile and have fun.

[REVflyer]

I'd say your description of local wind conditions are a perfect mid-vent match. Buy the best one you can afford, it's the difference between driving a custom-made Ferrari or learning to master a school bus. You can be the nat'l champ with the bus, (Flight will always be about you, not your equipment!) but driving the sports car crafted exactly as you ordered it is even better every inch of flight.

Go meet some of the locals, drive a 100 kilometers each way if you have to!,.. it will save both time and money for you to hook into other fliers over the long run. Part of the pleasure of flying Revs IS the amount of personalization they allow, both the kites themselves and the factory. Go experience for yourself a bunch of different settings and personal preferences. Get lots of advice and keep only the stuff you like personally. Your quad-lined destination is fun and there are lots of routes to get there successfully!

Lessons?, I start people out on long handles, just so they are super sensitive. The sooner you relax your grip on the handles the better. Hold 'em so softly that it feels like the tiny breeze alone could yank them from your grasp. The kite does all the work (or you change something, even the kite itself!)

Line lengths matter too. 80 feet on a mid-vent will fly kinda' like 120s & a full sail.

I personally like a kite over-powered as a preference, with lots of "down" in the tuning. I use different bridles and magic sticks (even indoors!). In low wind conditions (under double digits) I use long or very long handles. When we are flying full vent kites I use short handles so they are less sensitive to minor movements and I can blend in better with the team-mates.

My recommendation for you?
100 feet of LPG gold/90#, 13 (or 15) inch no-snag handles, a mid-vent pro with black race tubes all around (+ 1 extra Green Race for the leading edge's center position ~ for higher winds, it's a little stiffer & stronger). This set-up won't work all the time, but most of the wind conditions you described are right in the center of a mid-vent's performance curve.

As Mark stated,
a general guide-line of Rev acquisitions is first: a full sail, 2nd a full vent, #3 (something completely different or their mid-vent), eventually, you'll own a whole bunch of Revolution products, each new kite will become your instant favorite!

After you know how you like them to fly stock, then you start fiddling with them to try and improve whatever objectives your determine are most important. I live outside of Washington DC, so the most important aspect of Rev flying for me is that fact that 5 months out of a calendar year we have NO STINKIN WIND at all! All my preferences and modifications are about one objective. I need to to fly and do all the tricks when everyone else can only watch.

You're going to determine what's most important to you as well.
Enjoy and keep us informed of your progress.
-plm

[TerryB]

Hi from Aberdeenshire,
Best advice from a second year novice is to buy the rev bag.....
As you will fill it as the obsession grows.
It's a lonely sport here in the uk, you will be mostly self taught, although this site the community and others are a wealth of experience.
You are not too far from Fusion could be a good idea for you to hook up with them.
I started with a full sail SLE bullet proof, then a full vent the a Bazzer eyes cos I could not resist it.
Next is a shook weave, and a zen.
Rods it's race for me lines I still use stock 82ft have 120's and 50's.
Handles started with stock 13 made my own 15 and like both in different conditions.
The only thing I miss is others to fly and learn from, Berk is my yearly pilgrimage.
You take care and enjoy, maybe we can meet some day.
Terry

[belgarum]

Welcome,

My take...

Like Revflyer, sounds like the kind on conditions are leaning towards mid-vent which I feel is a good all rounder (with the right spars) except is very light winds.

A comment on the pricing you mention - you need to compare like with like. The EXP price is a RTF package (sail, frame, LPG lines and handles) whereas the others are sail and one frame only.

Whilst I would agree to go for the best you can afford, that first kite may get beat up a little - NOT something you would want to do with a Pro version.

For my money (and my 18 month experience) I'd go with either a full sail or mid vent 1.5B [not pro] (2 wrap & 3 wrap frames) and add in the (Kiteworld) upgrade package to either the 80' or 120' LPG plus the Rev handles and DVD - Then you are RTF. If you are feeling flush, a set of Race Roads could be added - apart from buying them as an "extra", generally the only other way to get them would be when specifying the single frame option with a Pro sail. And, by going the B route, (subject to your colour preference) you'll get the complete package a darn sight quicker than a built-to-order Pro!

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Sure as eggs are eggs, everyone will have a slightly differnent take on the way to go.

In any event, enjoy

[Kristof]

Check the rev dealer list. Scroll all the way down for UK.

[katrina]

Welcome! You've received lots of advice already, and even though plenty of it is conflicting, it's actually all good advice. I could make the case for any of the recommendations you've already gotten. Point is, get something and fly it. Don't let yourself get bogged down in the multitude of choices. Best yet would be to find someone else in your area who'll let you have a look at their bag and maybe try a few things out. It will all be clearer to you after that. But if you make a choice just based on what you've read in all the posts here, you won't have made a bad choice!

A midvent would be great. I usually suggest starting with a standard, but there are advantages to the mid. Good for variable winds, the vents help with that. I'd get the pro. Just be gentle with it. Not that it's delicate, it's just that you don't want to bash the h- out of a kite that nice during the learning process. That's why it's nice to learn on an old used beater. But you'd only need that beater for about a week. So go for the pro, and just take it easy on it. ie, walk forward or throw your arms forward pre-crash, and don't fly it in too much wind.

Drawbacks to a mid: 1. you'll be frustrated in lower wind. 2. you'll probably eventually want both a standard and a full vent, which commits you to 3 kites. Whereas, you can get away with just a standard and a full vent and cover the same wind range, just have to change out frames more often.

Handles: Most women and many men like handles around an inch in diameter. Mine are .9". The stock handles used to be 1.25", I think they still are? Anyone know? Go for the 13" handles. This is one piece of advice I wouldn't deviate from. You'll want longer leaders on top, check back with us/me, and we'll walk you through that.

Frames: 3 wraps and black race rods. The black race rods replace the 2 wraps and are overwhelmingly preferred to the 2 wraps. They are more fragile, so don't put them in until you've gained good control of your kite.

Lines: Laser Pro Gold (LPG). length: I'd go for the 120s IF you have the space for that, because a) that length gives you plenty of wind window to work with before the ground comes up out of nowhere , and 120s are the standard for team flying (for later). Even if you don't team fly for quite a while, if you should find yourself ever flying on the same field/beach with others, it's good to all be on the same length of lines, less chance of cutting each other's lines. If you get 120s, though, you MUST watch and rewatch John's line mgmt video, or... bad things will happen.

If you like, here's the case for shorter lines, say 75, 80, 85'.  Less length to manage, shorter walk of shame, and you won't take up so much space on the beach.  You won't want people under your kite when you are learning.

[SparkieRob]

G'day and welcome.

Shop around. Ask around. Put up a wanted ad! You MAY be able to get a Standard AND a Vented for the cost of a Pro. Anyone upgrading their set to a suite of Pros may want to offload their "old" kites to help offset the cost.
Lower or higher scale kite, crashes are part of learning but don't worry too much as they look worse than they are. Give to the kite, and you'll be right.

Rob.


Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone.

[stroke survivor]

I'm liking the "give to the kite" idea as a general rule for beginners!! Shoulda patented that one before unleashing it on the public!!!

No matter what lines you decide on - 80', 120', etc.,- you need to equalize them!! Otherwise you'll be wondering why the kite is doing whatever it is, even though you think your technique is correct!!

[Vince]

Hi Moggy,

Welcome to the Darkside. You have a lot of good advice and you have the UK dealers who will look after you. We fly every Sunday at Herrington Country Park opposite Penshaw Monument if you are in the area please come and say hello. When you start flying it is often better to fly with others. It makes it more enjoyable. I have always wanted to fly next to St Hildas and we have a few events not too far away from Whitby.

[stroke survivor]

Haven't heard back lately, but if you need some info on leaders, try this

http://www.revkites....&attach_id=7492
Good info and pix

[Moggy]

Thank you all sooo much for your very considered replies, and hearty welcome! Been reading the forum avidly the last few days (even week or two), even when I should be asleep(!), with umpteen tabs open and labyrinthine links from main site to the forum, as well as watching Youtube tutorials, sucking up all info before replying. I'm sure you've all been there!

Ok, Full Sail vs. Mid Vent.

Incidently I thought that a STD full sail config would normally be a natural choice as a first kite (as many of you recommend), I'm just slightly concerned (when looking at the recommended specifications on the main site, and on forum threads like this: http://www.revkites....0-vented-or-not ) that a full sail may possibly be over-powered in the coastal winds I'll be flying in (yearly average = 8-14mph)?

That said:

1) How does a STD full sail B-Pro handle in winds of say, 8-15mph compared to a MidVent at the same wind speed? Is a STD merely just faster whilst still retaining absolute control and stability.. or is it a bit unruly, buffet-y and unsteady?

On the flip side...

2) How does a Mid-vent handle in lower wind speeds (5-10mph)? Is it that much different compared to a full sail, or is it less responsive and sluggish?

My initial thoughts were if down the line I were to buy a second Rev I'd get a dramatically different one, such as a Supersonic/Shockwave (as I like the idea of having one option for insanely crazy fast speed and having a good fight with the lines) and thought it'd compliment a B-Pro.

One of the other reasons I was thinking a B-Pro over a B or SLE was that if I were to buy one kite to last indefinately (for the time being) and factor in the prices of lines, handles etc. for both the SLE, B or B-Pro the total price difference isn't all that great between the two (~£55), and the benefit of the reinforced materials, craftsmanship and customisable colourized design certainly seemed to be appealing and worth the extra.

Was also looking at the B2 as an alternative to the B-Pro, it looks great off the bat but after reading threads I thought it might be a little too fast and twitchy as a first kite?

120' of lines seems a little massive and a bit of a daunting prospect at the moment so will likely grab 80' lines for the time being while I'm starting out, it's more what I'm used to with dualies (~60') and I like the idea of more of a direct connection with the kite and taking up less room in the area (without killing someone half a mile away if it suddenly decides to ditch itself, ho ho), but will look to get 120' later on.

13" no-snag handles sound good. Those are the ones that are also pre-knotted too (at 1" intervals) aren't they? Would be helpful for customising the lengths of the lines a little.

I noticed the B series come with two frames, usually 3- and 2-wrap, but does the B-Pro only come with one (frame)? If so, judging from here and other threads 3-wrap is a certainty. A second frame is extra? Race-rods are lighter but more vulnerable than a standard 2-wrap?

Thank you all so much.

I'm actually located in Derby in the Midlands, my parents just have a static caravan in Whitby that we go to very often. I formerly equated the need for lots of wind when flying kites (especially with cheap, heavy dualies) but with the Revs it appears that's not the case.

[andelscott]

1) How does a STD full sail B-Pro handle in winds of say, 8-15mph compared to a MidVent at the same wind speed? Is a STD merely just faster whilst still retaining absolute control and stability.. or is it a bit unruly, buffet-y and unsteady?

I'll just repeat the advice - for a first kite, it's probably best to save some cash and omit the 'Pro'. A good combination is the full sail B series and vented B series. This covers the range; a Mid-vent is nice to fly but you will have days when there's not enough wind for the mid vent or too much. Combine the other two and you've 2, 3 and 4 wrap frames and kites for 4mph and up. There will still be squally days when you wouldn't want to fly the vented, of course.

120' of lines seems a little massive and a bit of a daunting prospect at the moment so will likely grab 80' lines for the time being while I'm starting out, it's more what I'm used to with dualies (~60') and I like the idea of more of a direct connection with the kite and taking up less room in the area (without killing someone half a mile away if it suddenly decides to ditch itself, ho ho), but will look to get 120' later on.

It is true that you don't have to walk as far when resetting the kite on 80 foot lines - helpful when learning! But, as soon as you start flying with others you'll need a 120 foot set, so worth budgeting for another line set after a couple of months.

[SparkieRob]

Get a kite stake! There are some beauties out there, hey Walt. A stake is pretty imperative to set up and break down. An old screwdriver or tent stake will work. Hell even a chopstick or knitting needle will suffice.

Oh and one other thing, set up and break down with the LE down and your handles staked at the top. This puts the kite in "drive" into the ground and will prevent (not 100% but 99.99% of the time) the kite self launching in the event someone steps into your lines.

You'll love what ever kite you get.
Rob.


Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone.

[belgarum]

There is great synergy across the Rev range - 1/1.5/2/speed series etc, but they are quite different characters which appeal to different tastes.

As someone new to Revs, I would advise sticking with one platform - the by far most popular 1.5 - to start with. Move to the other (another) platforms once you get a better feel of what YOU want out of the experience.

There is ONE kite that will satisfy you - but on the proviso that you will have to wait until you are free to fly AND the conditions are right for that ONE kite. That is why the average kite holding on this site (for those who have revealed their holdng) is so high - people want to be able to fly their Rev in whatever the conditions happen to be at the time. (Plus, there are some seriously good looking kites out there that one just HAS to have!)

I "only" have 5 Revs (4x1.5 and 1 x Rev1) and I take all of them with me when I fly. Sometimes all 5 will get airborne as the conditions change; sometimes only one. Sometimes the same sail stays on the lines but the frame changes as the conditions (or my preference) changes. The main thing is, almost regardless of the conditions, I know that I'll get a Rev up and have fun doing it!

The 1.5B "package" (sail/2 frames/handles/LPG line) represents, by far, the best value for money. It is probably worth noting that the full sail was around for a long time before venting was introduced so if there has to be a contender for that all-rounder title, the full sail would probably take it.

Regarding Race Rods, they have the weight of the 2 wraps, but the stiffness and strength of the 3 wraps (maybe even stronger than stock 3 wraps) so have no fear about fragility.

One further point about 120 lines - they give you (as a beginer) a lot more time to react when things get a bit out of hand!



If you get hooked on flying a Rev, you will never be content with the one sail

[stroke survivor]

The pre-knotted leaders aren't necessarily there for equalizing your lines!! While they can provide a temporary fix, lines should be laid out and the knots undone and all lines should end up of equal length!! The knots are there to adjust your kite for differing wind conditions!! Laying it back or pulling it forward, changes the way wind hits the kite and gives it forward drive!! You hear many of us talk about having more brake, well we do that to keep the kite from just taking off in a gust! We want to control our flight, not be at the wind's mercy!! So we're always looking for a more "neutral setting" for whatever winds we face!!

[Trigger]

HA HA HA..... YOU SAID "IF"!!!!

Ok i got the kite bug in May at a kite festival. Duals were my gateway drug... 5 in the bag.. all wind ranges and trickability.

Now I get my first Rev 3 weeks ago...1.5b race rods, 2 and 3 wrap. I love it! Got about 2 hours of flying in and went to a local gathering over the weekend with some great people that also were "fond" of their Revs. The first day was great perfect winds and I flew for about 4hrs. The next day the winds were pretty wicked! My meter said about 12mph but i think it was gustin towards 20. The nice people tell me not to fly... that didn't go over well...said my sail would stretch. A nice lady let me fly her full vent! It was WELL USED... but flew like silk!

I wasn,t worried because I don,t get to the beach much and have had no wind all summer. FALL IS HERE! 15-20mph winds every day i can fly!

Yesterday, ORDERED FULL VENT!

The b series is the way to go! Being new i found the race rods flex more and i had some trouble with vert/hor slides. I discovered while flying the SLE vent that the stiffer rod allowed for easier slides. I did also break a verticle RR during an impromptu landing. I am not condeming them but as a newb they haven't been the best for me.

Lets recap: since May- 5 dual kites the last 3 weeks- 2 REVS.... and I am not even GOOD at it!

HA HA HA... U SAID "IF"!!!

And I know because I have lost alot of sleep. and if i don't watch it... my wife!

first priority line management tutorial- You may even go out and just set up your lines 2 or 3 times if the winds aren't good when your kite gets there..... go ahead.... ask how I know.....

Have Fun!!!
jim

[stroke survivor]

Watching the line management tutorial is great!! Just be sure when YOU settle on a winding method, to do it the SAME, EVERY TIME!! And you do the winding, so you'll have no one else to blame!! Seriously, doing it the same way over and over, makes it pretty easy to remember and makes setup so much easier!!

[katrina]

1) How does a STD full sail B-Pro handle in winds of say, 8-15mph compared to a MidVent at the same wind speed? Is a STD merely just faster whilst still retaining absolute control and stability.. or is it a bit unruly, buffet-y and unsteady?

yes, unruly, twitchy, difficult, might stretch sail.

2) How does a Mid-vent handle in lower wind speeds (5-10mph)? Is it that much different compared to a full sail, or is it less responsive and sluggish?

sluggish. Will be very difficult to do anything with for a beginner in low wind. Better with race rods in, but not the right kite for low wind

My initial thoughts were if down the line I were to buy a second Rev I'd get a dramatically different one, such as a Supersonic/Shockwave (as I like the idea of having one option for insanely crazy fast speed and having a good fight with the lines) and thought it'd compliment a B-Pro.

you may well enjoy flying something else in the rev lineup. But if you get into this (if ) you'll want more than one 1.5. Otherwise, you'll be very frustrated when you arrive to fly, and find the conditions aren't right for the one kite you own. You can fudge it by changing rods, but that only gets you so far. Like I and others have said, a standard and a full vent will cover most of the conditions you'll encounter. Midvent is usually added last. If you start with a midvent, great, BUT, you'll probably end up getting both a standard and a vented after, so that's 3 kites. When you could cover the same wind range with just 2.


Pro vs. b series: up to you. either way, good choice. Pro costs more obviously, and only comes with the one frame. And you have to wait around 6 weeks for it. Worth it to me, that's why I have 4 of them. But the b series are almost as good, and the used market is brisk, so you'll have no trouble selling yours if you choose to upgrade to a pro later. If you can find a used rev 1.5 (exp, sle, b series, that's maybe the best thing. A starter kite, learn on it, sell it and upgrade.

Was also looking at the B2 as an alternative to the B-Pro, it looks great off the bat but after reading threads I thought it might be a little too fast and twitchy as a first kite?

Yes, fun fun kite, but would be difficult to learn on. Imagine it pinwheeling 10 times around like a propeller, and you're wondering what the heck is happening.

taking up less room in the area (without killing someone half a mile away if it suddenly decides to ditch itself, ho ho), but will look to get 120' later on.

Agreed, killing people with kite=bad.   It IS nice to not have to take up so much space while learning.  People have this way of wandering into your space and setting up a picnic. They have no idea you're a beginner, and that a kite may come crashing down on their toddler's head at any moment.

[andelscott]

HA HA HA..... YOU SAID "IF"!!!!

And I know because I have lost a lot of sleep. and if i don't watch it... my wife!

The obvious solution is to have your wife try flying the Rev. The down-side is you end up buying twice as many kites (some would argue that's not a down-side at all), but on the up-side, you have someone to fly with in pairs ready for more team flying!