35 replies to this topic

[KurtCira]

Hi to everyone on the Forum,

After buying my son Ian an EXP for his birthday, I decidedto take the Rev plunge and ordered an EXP for myself. I was originally going toget Ian a Mojo or other cheaper quad, but I was so impressed with the amountand quality of support here on the Rev Forum that I ordered a real Rev instead,and I am glad I did. Ian posted a question here and got tons of great adviceand contacts in Wisconsin (many thanks to Jynx for giving Ian his first lesson).

I would like to meet other Rev pilots here in South Florida(Broward County). Can anybody give me some referrals? Thanks in advance.

Kurt

[stroke survivor]

Look on the member map to see who is near by!! I'm sure any "neighbors" will speak up!!

[AldenMiler]

I know a couple fliers in New Smyrna and Merrit Island...


-Alden

[Jynx]

Kurt ~ Ian is incredible!

We flew together at Veterans Park, in Milwaukee, and I'm amazed at what a natural he is!

I'm a Wisconsinite/ (Daytona) Florida 'Snow-bird' and would love to meet and fly with you when I get down there again (December or after). I'm sure you'll find other Florida REVers who would be happy to join you too!

Welcome to the "Dark-Side" you're gonna love the Family! (and the Obsession!)

Have fun!

[KurtCira]

Kurt ~ Ian is incredible!

We flew together at Veterans Park, in Milwaukee, and I'm amazed at what a natural he is!

I'm a Wisconsinite/ (Daytona) Florida 'Snow-bird' and would love to meet and fly with you when I get down there again (December or after). I'm sure you'll find other Florida REVers who would be happy to join you too!

Welcome to the "Dark-Side" you're gonna love the Family! (and the Obsession!)

Have fun!

Thanks everyone, especially Jynx. Merritt Island and New Smyrna are a couple of hundred miles north, so I hope I can find some Dark-Siders a bit closer.

Jynx, glad to make a new friend. I will try to get up to Daytona this winter for a weekend meeting this winter. Ian told me that you had a simple way to convert the standard Rev handles that come with the EXP into "no snag" handles using some simple hardware store items. Can you give me a bit more detailed info and a picture of what to do to make the conversion?

I am a tweaker and fabricator from way back. When I lived in Milwaukee I spent a few years building custom bicycle frames, so building handles would be a piece of cake for me if I still had my lathe, milling machine, etc. I am currently an architectural designer and my mind naturally works to find ways to design something better. I have only been flying dual line kites for about 6 months so I haven't done too much regarding kites yet, but I have fabricated some stainless steel leading edge and center-T ferrules for my Prism 4-D to replace the weak aluminum ones that it comes with. As I get into this more I am sure I'll be spending time in the tuning and modifications area of the forum. It's nice to have hobbies that have enough depth to them that keep the interest up long-term.

[SparkieRob]

No Snags, I have this picture saved in my phone. It's NOT mine, it IS from the forum somewhere.




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[stroke survivor]

I see the mention of a different screw and would advise it! Use either some shoulder style screw w/lg head or at least file down the last couple of threads if you use the screws provided!! Either way makes a cheap and easy conversion of the handles!! Take care to NOT ruin the cap when you take off the "D"- ring, you want to reuse it! I use a very strong set of needle nose to do this!! Also be aware, there is a very nasty burr where the holes are drilled on the hollow tube!! Take care when converting and file it off!! Mine have survived use for many years!! Enjoy!!

[Jynx]

Kurt ~ I have pre-packaged all the parts needed for the no-snag handle system. PM me your address and I'd be more than happy to send you a packet and simple (yet detailed) instructions (along with the shoulder round-head screws). This system should be credited to Watty who also has a video somewhere showing the change-over.

There is another super REVer (Denny) in Cocoa Beach. Maybe the 3 of us can connect sometime early 2013!

[SparkieRob]

Stone in Shoe Bob advises you only need to do the bottoms but most do all points. Having just done this use a 10g Bugle Head screw at least an inch long. Yes be careful of the sharp edges!


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[AldenMiler]

There is another super REVer (Denny) in Cocoa Beach. Maybe the 3 of us can connect sometime early 2013!

Jynx, it was you and cousin Denny that I was referring to...


-Alden

[KurtCira]

Everything looks straight forward enough. Thanks for the offer Jynx, but I probably have everything I need in my small parts bins at home. And thanks to everyone for the advice.

Kurt

[stickerman]

No Snags, I have this picture saved in my phone. It's NOT mine, it IS from the forum somewhere.




Sent via Tapatalk for iPhone.

excellent!!!
big thx

henri

[KurtCira]

Hello again everyone,

I got my new EXP last week, but work and lack of wind meant I didn't get a chance to fly it until this weekend. Finally got a decent breeze (3-10 mph) on Saturday so I spent 3 hours at a local soccer field. The first hour was a bit frustrating as I learned to deal with line snags and twists, how to stake the handles down when going to the kite, and deprogramming my brain from 2-line techniques. After that it went more smoothly although I still wacked the ground hard more than a few times. It took a while to get my head around flying with the kite inverted. But all in all I made ok progress and managed to pack for home with no line tangles and nothing broken. I would recommend flying over grass if possible when learning, as sand would have been harder on the kite than the grass and soft ground.

On Sunday I got out again for a couple of hours. Things went much better. I spoke with my son Ian and got some advice in a couple of problem areas and I was able to practice those, especially how to brake the kite from a fast dive. It's really incredible how fast it will stop, almost like it hits a force-field. That helped reduce my hard crashes considerably. Also, line management was much easier. When I was finished with setup of the lines (I had just removed the lines at the kite and wound the lines back to the handles which I bound to the winder with a rubber band without detaching) there were no twists at all. I flew the next two hours and only had to do the walk of shame twice when my lines got caught on the tips when I spun out of control while practicing flying in reverse horizontally.

My observations after my first weekend on the dark side are:

1. The EXP is one tough kite. I would have broken any of my 2-line kites several times over if they hit the ground as hard as the EXP did. I can see that there is a place for lighter rods in the future when I have developed more consistent control.
2. The EXP was willing to fly in lighter winds than I thought it would. I would guess that it was flying at only about 3 mph! I have 2-line SULs that are no better in low wind. Lighter rods could only help in low winds.
3. In low wind I found that I was flying with the bottoms of the handles almost always in the upper lines. I tied an extra knot in the top and move the attachment point closer to handle which helped. I can see that I'll need to make some longer handle leaders on the top and bottom like the JB handles to adjust for different wind conditions.
4. I was able to learn quite a bit on my own, but it would have been nice to fly with someone who was experienced.
5. By the end of the weekend I was able to fly the kite almost as well as my 2-lines. I was learning to hover upright anywhere in the wind window, and for a while with the kites inverted and sideways. I could stop a dive, always take off again after landing leading edge down, could spin and loop at will, and had a real hoot. It's really nice to be able to recover easily from most crashes. It really adds to flying time.

Thats my report for now. Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Kurt

[quaa714]

Hello again everyone,

I got my new EXP last week, but work and lack of wind meant I didn't get a chance to fly it until this weekend. Finally got a decent breeze (3-10 mph) on Saturday so I spent 3 hours at a local soccer field. The first hour was a bit frustrating as I learned to deal with line snags and twists, how to stake the handles down when going to the kite, and deprogramming my brain from 2-line techniques. After that it went more smoothly although I still wacked the ground hard more than a few times. It took a while to get my head around flying with the kite inverted. But all in all I made ok progress and managed to pack for home with no line tangles and nothing broken. I would recommend flying over grass if possible when learning, as sand would have been harder on the kite than the grass and soft ground.

On Sunday I got out again for a couple of hours. Things went much better. I spoke with my son Ian and got some advice in a couple of problem areas and I was able to practice those, especially how to brake the kite from a fast dive. It's really incredible how fast it will stop, almost like it hits a force-field. That helped reduce my hard crashes considerably. Also, line management was much easier. When I was finished with setup of the lines (I had just removed the lines at the kite and wound the lines back to the handles which I bound to the winder with a rubber band without detaching) there were no twists at all. I flew the next two hours and only had to do the walk of shame twice when my lines got caught on the tips when I spun out of control while practicing flying in reverse horizontally.

My observations after my first weekend on the dark side are:

1. The EXP is one tough kite. I would have broken any of my 2-line kites several times over if they hit the ground as hard as the EXP did. I can see that there is a place for lighter rods in the future when I have developed more consistent control.
2. The EXP was willing to fly in lighter winds than I thought it would. I would guess that it was flying at only about 3 mph! I have 2-line SULs that are no better in low wind. Lighter rods could only help in low winds.
3. In low wind I found that I was flying with the bottoms of the handles almost always in the upper lines. I tied an extra knot in the top and move the attachment point closer to handle which helped. I can see that I'll need to make some longer handle leaders on the top and bottom like the JB handles to adjust for different wind conditions.
4. I was able to learn quite a bit on my own, but it would have been nice to fly with someone who was experienced.
5. By the end of the weekend I was able to fly the kite almost as well as my 2-lines. I was learning to hover upright anywhere in the wind window, and for a while with the kites inverted and sideways. I could stop a dive, always take off again after landing leading edge down, could spin and loop at will, and had a real hoot. It's really nice to be able to recover easily from most crashes. It really adds to flying time.

Thats my report for now. Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Kurt

Congrats Kurt!
Sounds as if your progress will move along more quickly given your strides so far.

On Point 3.........It will sound backwards to you now but when flying in light wind you will want a great deal more "down" (moving the knots further away from the handles)in the kite than may seem reasonable and here's why.......
When flying in lighter wind the tendency is for the heaviest part of the kite (the leading edge) to want to go down to the ground. That's fine, use the natural force of gravity to your advantage. If the sail is inverted and you have a lot of down in your kite, the leading edge (now the bottom of the kite) is actually behind the trailing edges which actually allows the sail to fill with whatever breeze is available forcing the kite up. This creates lift which is how skilled light wind pilots are able to fly in an environment when all others are grounded. It takes a lot of practice to fly in light wind and the frustration level is high but it is oh so sweet when you "get" it!

On point 4.......I suck as a pilot....(ok all....insert humorous comments here......) but I do spend a lot of time in South Florida and would gladly meet up with you to fly when in the area. Lets touch base in a PM and we can exchange phones, etc.

[goestoeleven]

Welcome to the dark side!

On point 3 - Rich is right - if you want to fly inverted in light wind. Inverted is Rich's favorite way to fly, especially in light winds. He pretty much likes to do everything backwards with a twist . . . what you don't know is that he's a slack line axel demon, and what's worse is he is such a lousy pilot that he's got me doing light wind axels for fun as often as possible. I first met Rich on an afternoon where there was 1-2 mph wind at Buckingham fountain in Chicago, and he was flying just fine, doing tons of inverted axels and using his kite to play with kids. He was flying a Shook mesh, which means he was flying a vented kite in 1-2 mph winds. I couldn't keep his kite in the air (back then). I spent a good part of Kite Party this year watching how he did axels and trying to copy his hand motions and timing (slow it down, slow it down). I still can't throw axels as consistently as I'd like. So yeah, he's a sucky pilot. You suck, Rich. When you coming back to Chicago?

What I think you'll find is that when you are starting to fly Revs, flying leading edge up / forward is more "natural" to you - so you'll want more forward on the handles in light winds, and you'll find it easier to hover upright because you have less brake. As you get a bit more experienced, flying and hovering inverted will become more natural, and so increasing your brake will help. The challenge I have after two years is that I now fly with a lot more brake all the time, and while hovering inverted in light winds has become easy, hovering upright is now more difficult for me (without walking backwards) because my brake is set such that the tops of the handles need to be pretty far back to get the leading edge far enough over the tails to hover upright.

BTW . . . you are progressing much faster than I did. Congrats, keep it up!

[KurtCira]

Congrats Kurt!
Sounds as if your progress will move along more quickly given your strides so far.

On Point 3.........It will sound backwards to you now but when flying in light wind you will want a great deal more "down" (moving the knots further away from the handles)in the kite than may seem reasonable and here's why.......
When flying in lighter wind the tendency is for the heaviest part of the kite (the leading edge) to want to go down to the ground. That's fine, use the natural force of gravity to your advantage. If the sail is inverted and you have a lot of down in your kite, the leading edge (now the bottom of the kite) is actually behind the trailing edges which actually allows the sail to fill with whatever breeze is available forcing the kite up. This creates lift which is how skilled light wind pilots are able to fly in an environment when all others are grounded. It takes a lot of practice to fly in light wind and the frustration level is high but it is oh so sweet when you "get" it!

On point 4.......I suck as a pilot....(ok all....insert humorous comments here......) but I do spend a lot of time in South Florida and would gladly meet up with you to fly when in the area. Lets touch base in a PM and we can exchange phones, etc.
_________________________


Thanks for the advice. It seems that, like with most things, setting up the handles is a matter of compromise. Make it better for inverted or braking and you give up a bit on forward/light wind end. Therefore it seems like I need to get some handle leaders made up with a good number of knots on both ends and do some experimenting to find a good balance for different winds.

I would enjoy flying with you sometime when you get a chance to come here. The best time of our year in South Florida is coming up. I live right in the middle of the whole Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach area. I'll PM you with my number.

Kurt

[makatakam]

Trust the advice you've gotten here. As you gain experience you will find yourself adding more brake until you have it maxed out. Having more brake actually makes keeping your kite in the air much easier, once you have mastered the basic turns and hovers. Unlearning bad habits is much more difficult than learning the correct methods when you begin flying. I recommend (from personal experience, having done it the wrong way myself) that you max out the brake until you can no longer launch the kite, and then backing it off one knot at a time until you can launch. Also search the forum for topics and threads on sail loading, as these will make launching with lots of brake much easier.

[stroke survivor]

Remember that if you do make up your own leaders, to start making your knots at the handle end first!! If you start from the outside, every knot you make will shorten up the leader's overall length!! Start from the inside and leave plenty of extra to get your overall length!! Leaders should end up about the distance between top and bottom attachment points!! That's just an approximate goal, your length will depend on you!!

The "add more down" test works in all winds really, just start with close to what you think will work, add more or less brake til you can't launch, take back enough to get airborne!! Pretty simple field adjustment for the winds of that day!! Remember - there is no one perfect setting that works in all conditions, be willing to switch if needed!!

[KurtCira]

Remember that if you do make up your own leaders, to start making your knots at the handle end first!! If you start from the outside, every knot you make will shorten up the leader's overall length!! Start from the inside and leave plenty of extra to get your overall length!! Leaders should end up about the distance between top and bottom attachment points!! That's just an approximate goal, your length will depend on you!!

The "add more down" test works in all winds really, just start with close to what you think will work, add more or less brake til you can't launch, take back enough to get airborne!! Pretty simple field adjustment for the winds of that day!! Remember - there is no one perfect setting that works in all conditions, be willing to switch if needed!!

I will definitely give that a try next time I get out. I was hoping for Saturday, but it looks like I would need an extra vent with 150# lines and SLE rods with Hurricane Sandy passing by. I work a half block from the beach and its getting nasty out.

On another point, I have a bunch of Sky Shark rods that I am going to make up into frames for my EXP. I have P100, P200, P300, PX2, and some .385 rods. How would these compare with the various rods from Revolution?

[REVflyer]

I use SS tubes occasionally, I like a P-90 leading edge, (particularly in zero wind conditions). Dremel (cut down) the center stick only and leave the two outers full length. Use four inch solid carbon ferules too. Your P-300 could be used in place of 3 wraps on the down spars, but the Race Frame is worth the money if you can afford to go there for the leading edge

My buddy Dave Ashworth uses Skyshark tubes exclusively in all his home-builts, in fact he'll buy blemished/reject rods if they are available! At that price they are almost disposable. We frequently use the tapered skyshark spars for down tubes in our local conditions. A no-wind favorite is a 2-P taper. WARNING: This is a very delicate stick, but we also use magic sticks to reinforce the structure, like a suspension bridge. All the skyshark sticks are too long when purchased, so we cut down the "fat part" and add a vinyl end cap onto the skinnier end to build it back up thicker (so the end-cap doesn't wiggle).

If you are crafting a no-wind only model, seek a discontinued SS tube called a "response 12". You'll have to work HARD for these darn things, as they have been out of production for at least a decade. It's a killer stick though, sanded, painted and silky smooth in flight too. Since it's tapered, you are moving more weight forward, towards the leading edge. That makes an improved glide. To go even further down this increased glide path, you will cut the tapered spar to end at the end of the sail. Now your stock length down spars won't fit,.... since you'll also need to adjust your bungie lengths on the bottoms of the sail. If you want to experiment, then don't cut the excess length of bungie off, then you can always return back to stock.

You might consider making "travel sets" with your skyshark tubes as well. Instead of a five piece frame set you'll make each one of those tubes into 2 separate pieces. A P-100 and P-300 travel set would cover a big spectrum of potential wind conditions. The extra ferules are increasing the overall frame's weight and also stiffening it substantially. The travel sets won't work the same, (as full length frame sets) but they will certainly be necessary some day when you want to travel light w/only a backpack and coffee cup.

In no way am I against any of the REv sticks, but if you're a home kite builder then you have probably got some SS tubes laying around already. Experiment around and form your own opinion.