64 replies to this topic

[SparkieRob]

Rich didn't correct Alden on his 100% equals a full vent. He only corrected the mid-vent percentage. So, it does look like your logic makes sense:

100% = Full-vent
75% = Twix a full-vent and a mid-vent
40% = Mid-vent

Hmmm ... that means if Elliot built a mesh sail to be equivalent to an extra-vent, the designation would be something like 150%l!!!

Cheers,
Tom

If anyone could do that, it'd be Mr Shook.



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[makatakam]

I believe we need to change the way we describe a vented sail, so that it reflects the percentage of sail area that is air space. If we refer to a kite as a 100% or 150% vent it sounds as if we're saying it has no sail fabric at all! In other words, if we call it a 25% vent, it should mean that 25% of the sail is holes and 75% is fabric. I have been working on a few vented designs and after doing the math, I have found that even those with lots of great big holes do not exceed 50% air space.

Even the extra-vent pros do not exceed 25% air space, because the mesh itself is less than 50% airspace. I'll do the math and post the results here when I have concluded the measurements.

The surface area that a framed 1.5 Rev presents to the wind is approximately 1820 square inches.

[MtnFlyer]

Bob,

You've got to be a little careful when Rich and Alden start working together ... they would leave Laural and Hardy speechless.

Rich didn't correct Alden on his 100% equals a full vent. He only corrected the mid-vent percentage. So, it does look like your logic makes sense:

100% = Full-vent
75% = Twix a full-vent and a mid-vent
40% = Mid-vent

Hmmm ... that means if Elliot built a mesh sail to be equivalent to an extra-vent, the designation would be something like 150%l!!!

Cheers,
Tom

Nope. Not replying to Rich and Alden, just your earlier querie, and based on Cath's correction of the earlier percents. I've been wondering about these numbers, too, and it finally came together.

Your thoughts about the Xvent are on target. Imagine, a spaghetti-like mesh.

[RevWizard]

I saw a 100% vented "REV II style" back in the late 90s. I don't have a picture, but I think it had a Dacron or similar leading edge. The rest was all screen.
It was in Fano, Denmark and the wind was quite strong. I noticed that it did fly quite well in that wind.
I never saw it again nor did I note the name of the owner.

[quaa714]

Bob,

You've got to be a little careful when Rich and Alden start working together ... they would leave Laural and Hardy speechless.

Rich didn't correct Alden on his 100% equals a full vent. He only corrected the mid-vent percentage. So, it does look like your logic makes sense:

100% = Full-vent
75% = Twix a full-vent and a mid-vent
40% = Mid-vent

Hmmm ... that means if Elliot built a mesh sail to be equivalent to an extra-vent, the designation would be something like 150%l!!!

Cheers,
Tom

In fact dugard, lamasters & I had that very conversation with Elliot some time ago and damned if I recall the outcome...insert comment here...but it definitely was a laughfest!
Anyway it's safe to say the first kite outta my bag will likely be the 75 first unless it is dead calm. On 50,75 or 100, 50s and a green race frame, it flies down to an oh so sweet float and slackline machine!
The 100 easily flew in the near steady 20mph wind that was WSIKF this year also with green race. Could easily have gone to 3 wraps or even fours if need be for even higher breeze but it was far too long to walk and I was just plain lazy!

Oh yeah......Alden who?

[kwmf]

I believe we need to change the way we describe a vented sail, so that it reflects the percentage of sail area that is air space.

While that may be a neat way to quantify it, then you'd have to start adding in a measure of how and where it loads to keep the comparison fair
(eg, my Polo venteds load NOTHING like my Pro sails)

Just my $0.02 of fuel to the nerdy engineering fire

[AldenMiler]

Oh yeah......Alden who?

Phhhhhhbbbbbbttttttt!!!!!!!!

-Alden

[Cath Shook]

Phhhhhhbbbbbbttttttt!!!!!!!!

-Alden

Nicely said! Alden has done the Spaghetti Mesh!

[Jeepster]

Nicely said! Alden has done the Spaghetti Mesh!

NO, NO, NO ... don't run away Cath, come back ... please ... pretty please.

Okay Cath, so you've probably seen Alden's sad attempt at building a weave kite. Poor guy got the outline correct, but then simply couldn't figure out the weave pattern so stopped right there. If Elliot built that kite it obviously would look much better, but what percent label would he apply?

Inquiring minds want to know,
Tom

[bartman]

Hey Rich, what were you guys flying here last year in that hurricane? What percentage weave? How did you find it performed during that windstorm? You seemed pretty unphased by it if I remember correctly.

Bart

[quaa714]

Hey Rich, what were you guys flying here last year in that hurricane? What percentage weave? How did you find it performed during that windstorm? You seemed pretty unphased by it if I remember correctly.

Bart

That was the 100% probably with a 3 wrap.
And yea, that sail stands up to quite a gale!!!! Swift Current's or otherwise!

[Cath Shook]

NO, NO, NO ... don't run away Cath, come back ... please ... pretty please.

Okay Cath, so you've probably seen Alden's sad attempt at building a weave kite. Poor guy got the outline correct, but then simply couldn't figure out the weave pattern so stopped right there. If Elliot built that kite it obviously would look much better, but what percent label would he apply?

Inquiring minds want to know,
Tom

Tom, you mean the Victoria's Secret Kite??

Eliot says "that's not a mesh, it's a ripstop covered frame. Rev will never sanction it - there's no place for the Logo!"

Hope All of you are going to Ocean City MD this weekend - we're closed for the weekend to go up there.
See Ya' Soon Jay!

[stroke survivor]

Is it possible to post some pix showing what the %s mean as it relates to the amount of weave material? Just looking to clear things up!!

[AldenMiler]

Is it possible to post some pix showing what the %s mean as it relates to the amount of weave material? Just looking to clear things up!!

The clear part determines the percentage!

-Alden

[stroke survivor]

If that logic holds true - then "Vickie" is the only true 100% type I've seen!!

[belgarum]

I'm with Wayne on the quest for more info on the mesh, and comparative pictures would help visualise the whole thing.

Maybe Cath could put the record straight? I tried to get this sort of info a while back by emailing FSK with view to buying one, but sadly didn't get a reply.

[quaa714]

I hope to get out and fly tomorrow but even if I don't I'll frame em up and do some side by side shots for you.
The difference is in the measurements of the individual strips, which even if I knew wouldn't say cause it's not my place. That said though, the difference is dynamic. Don't let that difference in size of those strips fool you, the range of both the 100 & the 75 are sweet at the extreme top and bottom of the window.
Just saying........
BTW......These pics are of a 75% mesh that weren't taken at some beach in OC last march by John Chilese.

[Cath Shook]

25% (The devil made me do it)

I believe it refers to the amount of the sail area that is made of strips as opposed to solid fabric. If you look at his kites you'll notice that on most the center is not mesh, but some are mesh in entirety, including the center (where the rev logo usually is).

Hey folks - Eliot's ALWAYS have a solid center panel with the Rev logo, and after the first few, they also have the compass rose.  Full mesh center panel is either Alden's g-string/Vickie or a chinese knockoff.

 

FYI, after 6 years of flying this design, I still love the smoothness of it!

Cath

[stroke survivor]

Cath - is it possible to post some pix with the %s captioning them, so we can compare them?? 

[REVflyer]

Sorry Wayne, that request is simply not a reasonable expectation in this electronic day and age, proprietary knowledge and all.  Rev doesn't share their dimensions publicly.  If you want to know exactly what size one is, then you need to borrow or acquire it, but they're not sending you a diagram nor even a cocktail napkin sketch

 

surely you would adopt the same non-disclosure attitude in Shook's position.  This is a revenue source and a highly desired product.

 

the mesh strips are different sizes and the location of them varies as well, depending on which model you desire, (40%, 75% or 100%)