Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Inverted hover


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 SparkieRob

SparkieRob

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:51 PM

Newbie tip to other newbies.
I was practicing my inverted hover today, "Own thy hover", and found it much easier to control with 1 or 2 twists in the line. Eg, fly up and 1 or 2 spins then land LE down and practice from there. I think it help moderate my inputs and stopped me from over correcting. Anybody else find this?

"Inbetween heaven and earth, there are kites."


#2 B-13

B-13

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Port Louis, Mauritius

Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

SparkieRob, great if you are managing the inverted. However twist in the lines does not help here. Perhaps your lines are less slick than it was when new and the sticky lines are correcting your over controls and over inputs.
I would suggest you put your kite in the up position on the ground, stake it (stake goes at the top leaders here, i'll explain why) lean it back so it does not fly off, then walk to the kite and reverse it manually. In either direction should work.
Now reverse it will not fly off as you are holding the handles from the top leader which will make the kite lean back automatically :)
Go back to the handles and practice with only little movements on each handles just to make the kite lift but not take off...
I'll stop here and recommend you visit and subscribe on kitelife.com where JB has a very nice tutorial which will make you hover in few flights sessions :)

Good luck and last tip is: Don't over control with harsh movements

B

#3 SkyPuppet

SkyPuppet

    Reveller

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Las Vegas, NV

Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:43 PM

Newbie tip to other newbies.
I was practicing my inverted hover today, "Own thy hover", and found it much easier to control with 1 or 2 twists in the line. Eg, fly up and 1 or 2 spins then land LE down and practice from there. I think it help moderate my inputs and stopped me from over correcting. Anybody else find this?


I agree with SparkieRob here; I made a similar observation, but mine was regarding lateral motion: http://www.revkites....__1.

I think it helps keep the Rev a bit more stable. However, I also feel that that the upper wind range of a particular kite/frame setup is compromised somewhat when I fly with a few twists in the lines. Since all lines emanate from the single point, you don't have the advantage of spreading your arms apart horizontally/vertically to separate the control over the 2 halves of the wing, like you can when there are no twists in the lines.

So long as your lines are clean enough, and long enough, Axels, Flic Flacs, Catch-N-Toss, are all possible with twists in the lines!

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

 My YouTube Channel - Thanks for watching smile.png


#4 REVflyer

REVflyer

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germantown Maryland

Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:36 AM

roll-up landings and un-rolling take-off techniques are both easier to do with a full/complete wrap in the lines. That wrap gets everything nice and centered, directly in front of you.

#5 Khal

Khal

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 95 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampton Roads, Virginia

Posted 24 April 2012 - 07:45 AM

I've found a lot of things a bit easier to do with a twist or two in the lines. Most recently I noticed that I'm less likely to flip a wingtip (i.e. "bowtie") when flying in reverse if the lines are twisted.

Another possibly helpful newbie tip for the inverted hover:
This really seemed to help a friend of mine who is just a bit behind me on the learning curve. I suggested that he fly forward to the top of the window, turn over and fly back to the ground while trying to slow down as much as possible. He seemed to have a much easier time flying slowly forward while inverted than trying to hover outright. Of course, as he continued to slow down with control he was eventually hovering.
Brian

Posted Image Posted Image

#6 Stone in Shoe Bob

Stone in Shoe Bob

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,350 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leighton Buzzard - UK

Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:52 AM

I've found a lot of things a bit easier to do with a twist or two in the lines. Most recently I noticed that I'm less likely to flip a wingtip (i.e. "bowtie") when flying in reverse if the lines are twisted.

Another possibly helpful newbie tip for the inverted hover:
This really seemed to help a friend of mine who is just a bit behind me on the learning curve. I suggested that he fly forward to the top of the window, turn over and fly back to the ground while trying to slow down as much as possible. He seemed to have a much easier time flying slowly forward while inverted than trying to hover outright. Of course, as he continued to slow down with control he was eventually hovering.

It's also a good way to make ground, turn inverted, aply loads of break and slowly walk forward. It may be a little advanced, right now, but try it and see how you get on. The kite will fall if the wind is light but, turn climb and repeat to make mor ground if required.
Stone in Shoe Bob

It's Good to Share the Joy.

#7 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,747 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:40 AM

SparkieRob, great if you are managing the inverted. However twist in the lines does not help here. Perhaps your lines are less slick than it was when new and the sticky lines are correcting your over controls and over inputs.
I would suggest you put your kite in the up position on the ground, stake it (stake goes at the top leaders here, i'll explain why) lean it back so it does not fly off, then walk to the kite and reverse it manually. In either direction should work.
Now reverse it will not fly off as you are holding the handles from the top leader which will make the kite lean back automatically :)
Go back to the handles and practice with only little movements on each handles just to make the kite lift but not take off...
I'll stop here and recommend you visit and subscribe on kitelife.com where JB has a very nice tutorial which will make you hover in few flights sessions :)

Good luck and last tip is: Don't over control with harsh movements

B


I'm agreeing with most of the info here, but I'm a bit confused about the manual turning of the kite to an inverted position??!! Why make that "Walk of Shame"? Just invert it from your flying position or after you set it up normally, go ahead and invert it then!! The less walking, the more flying can be done!! Just didn't see that the step was needed!! Posted Image If you do crash or something, go ahead and straighten everything out, then invert!! Safe way of "parking" your kite!!

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#8 lamrith

lamrith

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tacoma, WA

Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:46 AM

It's also a good way to make ground, turn inverted, aply loads of break and slowly walk forward. It may be a little advanced, right now, but try it and see how you get on. The kite will fall if the wind is light but, turn climb and repeat to make mor ground if required.



John B actually tought this as the 1st thing in the WCRC. He demonstrated you can actually RUN and gain loads of distance back. VERY handy on those light wind days to gain back ground after back pedalling.
Rev B full sail, Mid & Full Vent
Rev SLE
Rev Blast
Large Duffel bag full of frameless ripstop and lines

An ear to ear grin when the trees are moving

#9 B-13

B-13

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Port Louis, Mauritius

Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:28 AM

I'm agreeing with most of the info here, but I'm a bit confused about the manual turning of the kite to an inverted position??!! Why make that "Walk of Shame"? Just invert it from your flying position or after you set it up normally, go ahead and invert it then!! The less walking, the more flying can be done!! Just didn't see that the step was needed!! Posted Image If you do crash or something, go ahead and straighten everything out, then invert!! Safe way of "parking" your kite!!


Walk of shame??? Where?? lol
No was just explaining about the setup BEFORE flying and when just we finished attaching the lines to the kite :)
Thanks to let me clarify this Posted Image

#10 Stone in Shoe Bob

Stone in Shoe Bob

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,350 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leighton Buzzard - UK

Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:36 AM

John B actually tought this as the 1st thing in the WCRC. He demonstrated you can actually RUN and gain loads of distance back. VERY handy on those light wind days to gain back ground after back pedalling.

Run ? ? ? This old bull doesn’t do “running”.

On a more serious not, yes I’ve no doubt you could run, but that may be a little advanced for a newbie.
Stone in Shoe Bob

It's Good to Share the Joy.

#11 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:14 PM

If you stand on your head, the inverted hover is a "no-brainer". (Sorry, couldn't resist!)
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#12 lamrith

lamrith

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tacoma, WA

Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:28 PM

Running is a touch advanced, but a brisk walk is easy enough and all the newbies were doing it the 1st morning. The kite glides/floats down on it's own really. I only had 2hrs on handles before the clinic started.
Rev B full sail, Mid & Full Vent
Rev SLE
Rev Blast
Large Duffel bag full of frameless ripstop and lines

An ear to ear grin when the trees are moving

#13 SparkieRob

SparkieRob

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 26 April 2012 - 01:55 AM

SparkieRob, great if you are managing the inverted. However twist in the lines does not help here. Perhaps your lines are less slick than it was when new and the sticky lines are correcting your over controls and over inputs.
I would suggest you put your kite in the up position on the ground, stake it (stake goes at the top leaders here, i'll explain why) lean it back so it does not fly off, then walk to the kite and reverse it manually. In either direction should work.
Now reverse it will not fly off as you are holding the handles from the top leader which will make the kite lean back automatically
Go back to the handles and practice with only little movements on each handles just to make the kite lift but not take off...
I'll stop here and recommend you visit and subscribe on kitelife.com where JB has a very nice tutorial which will make you hover in few flights sessions

Good luck and last tip is: Don't over control with harsh movements

B

B-13 you should always set your kite up with the LE down when staked as this is the safest, and communally agreed best way to set up. Staked through the top leaders puts the kite into "LE drive" and if your kite is LE up in this position it won't take much to set it off flying!
Same handle position but set up with LE down so it's "driving" into the ground.

Lines are still very new, approx 14 hours of use so they aren't sticky at all. I think it was because of the wrap everything was centered and even. I was less looking at my lines and more concentrating on small rotations of my wrists. Worked for me so I thought I'd share.

JB's tutorials are really good, I used to be a infinity winder as that is how my lines came but after watching the "Line Management" tutorial I'm now straight winding and for me it's a much faster set up.

I'm still learning, and a sole flyer, so thank you for everybodies tips. They are greatly appreciated.

Rob.

"Inbetween heaven and earth, there are kites."


#14 HedgeWarden

HedgeWarden

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chehalis, WA

Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:36 PM

Question:

Are you using standard handles (same length leaders top and bottom) or B-series type adjustable handles (longer multi-knot top leader)? Using a longer top leader provides more reverse force (or brake), and can diminish the tendency to over control the bottom lines. With good balance between top and bottom lines, inverted hover and flight is easier.
-Howard
No, this is my first childhood!

#15 SparkieRob

SparkieRob

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

Question:

Are you using standard handles (same length leaders top and bottom) or B-series type adjustable handles (longer multi-knot top leader)? Using a longer top leader provides more reverse force (or brake), and can diminish the tendency to over control the bottom lines. With good balance between top and bottom lines, inverted hover and flight is easier.


G'day Hedge, Standard 13's but I put some home made leaders on. I let my top lines out an extra 10" (on top of the 3.5" factory setting) but I couldn't get it to launch LE up on that, so I brought it in to an extra 7" where it felt more comfortable for me to fly. This helped a lot. Need to get some proper bridal braid rather than the "Brickies Line" I'm using. I've left the bottom leaders as is.

Katrina has giving me a few pointers about leaders but have yet to give it a try.

Kind of tempted to get some of the Pro No-Snags sent over from the states.

"Inbetween heaven and earth, there are kites."


#16 RevWizard

RevWizard

    Rev Guru and Historian

  • Forum Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,467 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe & North America

Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:24 PM

Newbie tip to other newbies.
I was practicing my inverted hover today, "Own thy hover", and found it much easier to control with 1 or 2 twists in the line. Eg, fly up and 1 or 2 spins then land LE down and practice from there. I think it help moderate my inputs and stopped me from over correcting. Anybody else find this?

What is most likely happening is that this creates a slight bit of resistance, thus prevent a bit of over-steer.
The US Navy Acrobatic Team "Blue Angels" uses a similar technique by adding resistance to the control stick on their F18 Hornets. They need more precise control for Acrobatic maneuvers. The normal F-18 does not have this.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#17 B-13

B-13

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Port Louis, Mauritius

Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:13 PM

What is most likely happening is that this creates a slight bit of resistance, thus prevent a bit of over-steer.
The US Navy Acrobatic Team "Blue Angels" uses a similar technique by adding resistance to the control stick on their F18 Hornets. They need more precise control for Acrobatic maneuvers. The normal F-18 does not have this.


Exactly what i said earlier..The twist just diminish the pilots errors in over controlling the reverse.
Making 6-8 twists will demonstrate this and the pilot will have to do more input for the kite to respond. Also it will be more slow to respond.




#18 kwmf

kwmf

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 592 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durban, South Africa

Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:24 AM

I'm not overly fond of the required extra input needed due to twists myself, I prefer a more direct connection with my rev.

Anything that helps one leard a skill is great, but I think it was Bazzer who said to me the best way to hide a weakness was to practice until the weakness is no longer there.

#19 hyzakite

hyzakite

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 230 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:usa

Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

I'm not overly fond of the required extra input needed due to twists myself, I prefer a more direct connection with my rev.

Anything that helps one leard a skill is great, but I think it was Bazzer who said to me the best way to hide a weakness was to practice until the weakness is no longer there.

I'm witchew on those twists!

#20 rexracer

rexracer
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western CT

Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

It's also a good way to make ground, turn inverted, aply loads of break and slowly walk forward. It may be a little advanced, right now, but try it and see how you get on. The kite will fall if the wind is light but, turn climb and repeat to make mor ground if required.

I love this. I tried this while trying out my new 50' lines, and it worked great. Snap the brake lines and the kite starts to glide away. I could keep a little tension on the brakes to get maximum glide and steer a bit. With the lousy wind (0-5mph) it really helped. I ran back 50 yards at one point, and with 50 foot lines, that was quite a glide!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users