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Are your four lines the same length?


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#21 RevWizard

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:59 PM

okay thanks...

but is there a easy way to make the lines the same lenght

The easy part is determining how much to correct each line.
The hard part is retying the knot.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#22 Jason

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 06:52 PM

maybe untie all 4 lines to even them out at the same time. then retie all together marking each line. that should ensure they are all the same length.
Jason "long may ur big jib draw"


#23 clare

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:15 PM

My lines are currently all the same length - thanks pudsli for sorting them last saturday!

But before he did this for me, I had three different lengths between my four lines.

First time I checked them, I was very shocked at the difference between the top and bottom lines, but even more shocked when I followed the advise Id been given to fly them the other way a couple of times. I reckon it took only a couple of decent flys for the shorter ones to stretch to almost the same as the longer ones. So until I find some pennies for some of this posh line that doesnt stretch much, I shall be checking mine on a far more regular basis.


Trouble is, I really hate knots, particularly knots in sleeving which has been stretched out on wet sand, yuck yuck yuck. Its a fiddly and very frustrating job.

#24 RevWizard

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:07 AM

maybe untie all 4 lines to even them out at the same time. then retie all together marking each line. that should ensure they are all the same length.

When you use the fine sleeving I do, which does not slip off the bridle knots like most sleeved lines do, you will have a problem undoing the knots. They are quite small and tight. My sleeving comes from Germany and I really appreciate its characteristics. In addition it is in 4 colors. Light lime, dark lime, light orange and dark orange.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#25 big bri

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 06:58 AM

Teaching someone to adjust ther lines as a practice that should take place as an everyday part of ther set up and flying is difficult,but it is a good way to raise skill and confidence in your flying.Everytime it rains at Ainsdale or any site im at,out come everyset i have and ther adjusted.i DO ADJUST NEARLY EVERTIME I FLY.
Clare was very,very reluctant to learn how to take care of her lines,learn how to make a line set,adjust them,etc,etc.
I think people tend to forget how important the lines are.Seeing the lines as a seperate piece of kit isnt how i see them.I look at my lines as a part of the kite.If not the most important part in many ways. Afterall ther the contact you have with the kite.So they need to be on the money.
My only tip is.Before connecting your handles.Run the lines out and check the lengths.It takes a few seconds.If ther out,adjust.Ive always looked at it that,if JB turns up at Ainsdale and has forgot his lines.If he asks me can he use a set of mine.THEY WILL BE BANG ON and i wont look a proper WALLY.

BRIAN... :)

#26 RevWizard

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:17 AM

Teaching someone to adjust ther lines as a practice that should take place as an everyday part of ther set up and flying is difficult,but it is a good way to raise skill and confidence in your flying.Everytime it rains at Ainsdale or any site im at,out come everyset i have and ther adjusted.i DO ADJUST NEARLY EVERTIME I FLY.

What kind of lines do you have that need adjustment so often? Maybe, I have to adjust my lines once in a year. I use Shanti Speed lines, which have a lot of time on them and still look great.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#27 Jim Foster

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:54 AM

One time when we were flying with Mark and Jeanette Lummas, Mark showed us a very simple way to check for equal line length.

After setting up, launch and fly for a minute to get everything, including attachment knots, tight. Land the kite upright. Put your handles together. Hold the tops of the handles together with one hand, and the bottoms of the handles together with the other. Keeping the handles together, with the tops and bottoms exactly even right to left, rock the handles back to launch the kite. Do not move the handles. Hold them in the launch position. If the kite goes straight up, you are in good shape. If it goes to one side or another, some adjustment is needed. If the kite makes it to the top, even if it is not quite in the center of the window, I call it good enough. If the kite makes a turn and lands itself or flies to the edge of the window facing right or left, I make whatever adjustment is needed.

This does not mean that your top and bottom lines are the same length. They don't really need to be the same length as any difference can be made up at the pig tails on the handles. You want the top pair to be equal and the bottom pair to be equal.

What this method does, is check everything as a unit. You could have the lines exactly the same length and have a small difference in the bridle, or pig tails on the handles.

Most small differences you will never notice when flying. The bigger the difference, the crazier things will get.

Try it, it's really simple.

Jim
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#28 Baloo

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 10:14 AM

Thanks Jim, as usual the simple ideas are often best. Will try that out.

#29 ian4c

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 10:16 AM

One time when we were flying with Mark and Jeanette Lummas, Mark showed us a very simple way to check for equal line length.

After setting up, launch and fly for a minute to get everything, including attachment knots, tight. Land the kite upright. Put your handles together. Hold the tops of the handles together with one hand, and the bottoms of the handles together with the other. Keeping the handles together, with the tops and bottoms exactly even right to left, rock the handles back to launch the kite. Do not move the handles. Hold them in the launch position. If the kite goes straight up, you are in good shape. If it goes to one side or another, some adjustment is needed. If the kite makes it to the top, even if it is not quite in the center of the window, I call it good enough. If the kite makes a turn and lands itself or flies to the edge of the window facing right or left, I make whatever adjustment is needed.

This does not mean that your top and bottom lines are the same length. They don't really need to be the same length as any difference can be made up at the pig tails on the handles. You want the top pair to be equal and the bottom pair to be equal.

What this method does, is check everything as a unit. You could have the lines exactly the same length and have a small difference in the bridle, or pig tails on the handles.

Most small differences you will never notice when flying. The bigger the difference, the crazier things will get.

Try it, it's really simple.

Jim


Now that seems pretty good to me! And I will certinly give it a go.

#30 Simon

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:58 PM

OK, as long as the wind is clean and straight - if its Bristol wind "in over the trees" then you have problems. Does anyone still sell equalizers?

Seem to have lost mine and did my 150lb lines today as the wind was 30-40 mph this weekend.

Now that seems pretty good to me! And I will certinly give it a go.


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#31 antman

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 03:19 PM

john mitchell.. do you sell these sleeves ?? the really thin ones are so hard to find.. i have a few sets on my lines but i could use some more ..
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#32 steveb

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:55 PM

When I make a new line set I first sleeve both ends of the roll, hook up one of my single line foils on a medium wind day and let it fly for several hours. That usually takes care of most of the new line stretch. Every 5 or 6 sessions I flip the lines over and also end for end. I use an old Moran Equalizer to get the lines spot on.

Equalizing is something I tend to do on those days with random, turbulent breezes. I've got a dozen or so line sets, so there's usually one that could use some tweaking. Something I've found is that Mother Nature tends to stop the frustrating swirly breezes and start a nice steady wind while you're in the middle of line maintenance, so it's usually worth it. ;)

IMG_9077.jpg
(the hooks are facing backwards in this pic; the arrow should be facing the small hole in the centre)

#33 Kitelife

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:15 PM

Oh, that's classic... I haven't seen one of those in years. ;)

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#34 David M

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 03:29 PM

Are your four lines the same length?

How often do you check them per set of lines?

What are some good techniques for adjusting the length of your lines?

==

If you're using the adjustment system It is very important to have the same length lines, because any difference (i.e. one line is longer) will significantly effect the overall control and precision of your kite.

If you're on basic handles with no adjustments (stock SLE), you would probably benefit most from making sure your R-L top lines same length, and then again for the bottom R-L... Not equalizing all four at the same time, just top and bottom separately.

Without the adjustments, you'll likely find an SLE responds better after your top lines are stretched out a bit (which they will be, compared to the bottom lines).

2 cents and change.

Thoughts? Experiences? Tips?



Hey Kitelife,
I've got basic SLE handles with NO adjustment on the leaders.My question is that my top lines are the same length as are my bottom ones BUT my top lines are longer than my bottom ones,is this rightPosted Image I'm most confused cos I here people say ALL lines should be the same lenght +or- 1/4".
David M.....Just a (slightly ) over aged guy playing with kites......and LOVIN' it

#35 Watty

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 03:37 PM

Hey Kitelife,
I've got basic SLE handles with NO adjustment on the leaders.My question is that my top lines are the same length as are my bottom ones BUT my top lines are longer than my bottom ones,is this rightPosted Image I'm most confused cos I here people say ALL lines should be the same lenght +or- 1/4".


Uhm... I'm confused.... You say that your top lines are the same length as your bottom lines. You then say that your top lines are longer than your bottom lines?

Ideally, all four lines should be close to the same length. The length of the lines should be including the actual line + the sleeved part of the line, but not the line that they attach to on the handles.

I hope this helps,

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#36 SkyHook

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 04:22 PM

I am guilty of not checking the length of my lines for several years. I just started stretching them out in my driveway last week. It had been so long since I checked the lengths that I had forgotten there is a difference in length between tops and bottoms on some of my old sets. I am now in the process of changing all 4 lines to the same length for each set. I already had knots for adjustment on the pigtails on some of the handles but need to make the pigtails for all handles.

Bruce

#37 Kitelife

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 06:54 PM

According to the popular school of tuning, all four lines should be equal, with a 7"-9" knotted leader on the top of your handles for both extension and adjustment.

John Barresi

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#38 David M

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:05 PM

Uhm... I'm confused.... You say that your top lines are the same length as your bottom lines. You then say that your top lines are longer than your bottom lines?

Ideally, all four lines should be close to the same length. The length of the lines should be including the actual line + the sleeved part of the line, but not the line that they attach to on the handles.

I hope this helps,



Sorry for the confusion Watty,both my top lines (white sleeve) are the same length as each other and my bottom lines (black sleeve) are the same length as each other BUT both my top lines (white sleeves) are longer than my bottom.JB reconds that if I'm not using adjustments on my handles,which I'm not,as long as the top 2 lines and the bottom 2 lines are the same that's ok for a std SLE or am I getting to confusedPosted Image
David M.....Just a (slightly ) over aged guy playing with kites......and LOVIN' it

#39 Kitelife

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 07:11 PM

To be quite clear, again referring only to the popular methodology... Always, the top lines need to be extended by way of leaders.

SLE, EXP, B, doesn't matter... Gotta lay the leading edge back to maximize control.

Top lines can be longer by 2"-3", no problem, because the adjustments on the top allow you to use or compensate for that.

John Barresi

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#40 Watty

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 08:39 PM

Sorry for the confusion Watty,both my top lines (white sleeve) are the same length as each other and my bottom lines (black sleeve) are the same length as each other BUT both my top lines (white sleeves) are longer than my bottom.JB reconds that if I'm not using adjustments on my handles,which I'm not,as long as the top 2 lines and the bottom 2 lines are the same that's ok for a std SLE or am I getting to confusedPosted Image


I understand now.
I think a basic reason for this is that when making pigtails for handles, the top pigtails are always longer than the bottom to lay the leading edge back a bit. Basically, instead of extending the top lines via pigtails, the top lines themselves are made longer.

And, as John mentions, if you had longer top lines and pigtails, you could adjust the handle setup to compensate for the difference in length. The smaller the difference between the tops and bottoms, the less you have to compensate. So, if the difference is 12 inches, it may be difficult to compensate for it, whereas a difference of 2-3 inches is easily compensated for by pulling in or letting out the lines by a few knots. As long as the tops are the same and the bottoms are the same, there will not be any issues with, say, the kite turning on its own.

Edited by Watty, 20 July 2010 - 08:44 PM.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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