14 replies to this topic

[lamrith]

Well as many know I am completely hooked. After spending a weekend with Iquad at the clinic I learned a bunch, even got to fly on a few of John's kites.

I am still very early on the learning curve myself, but this sport is so fun and addicting I am looking to get my kids and wife started up.

Knowing my kids and how the youngest flew the foil his 1st time out, I am not ready to throw them up on the B. We all panic the 1st few flights with the speed and nimbleness of a rev.. Looking forward I would also like to be able to have a second kite out when I fly that I could put anyone curious on without fear of damaging a high dollar set-up.

I am looking to have the toughest rev possible, one that can hold up to hitting the ground more frequently (within reason), and be a little slower handling.

That has me thinking a EXP for obvious $ reasons and they are supposed to be the entry level rev, but what about frame? They seem to come with the 1/4" frame, will and SLE set fit also? I know most dislike the SLE, and it will add weight, but the added strength for showing an untrained/young flier would be nice? Probably 80ft lines, and maybe shorter handles since most people will probably initially over input?



My name is Larry, I am your local "Revcrack dealer", 1st flight is free...

[mbro]

Hey Lamrith, I have an SLE (my 2nd rev) If you count a backtracker as 1st, I've used it for a trainer now for three different buddy's who now are hooked and have their own b series. that thing has taken some real abuse, (mainly contact with mother earth) w/ the 3 wrap frame in it only and haven't broken a rod yet, try and find a used EXP or SLE they'll hold up to the thrashing very well. IMHO

Michael

[stroke survivor]

I'll second mbro's sentiment!! A used EXP or SLE will do very nicely as a trainer!! The EXP comes with a 3 wrap LE, (not marked), that is plenty strong to handle Mother Earth and gravity!! Remember to teach them to GIVE to the kite or to point their thumbs at the kite, to lessen any impacts!! You can interchange an SLE rod in the LE if you think it necessary, but you'd have to be really ham-fisted to break the 3 wrap set!! Either will do a great job!! Good luck spreading the Rev addiction!!

[lamrith]

Thanks guys, keep em comin...
Heh Ham fisted. I resemble that remark a bit still, but I love that term..

80ft lines probably a good bet at well? Strikes that balance between responsiveness of short 30-50ft lines and the bigger window to allow time to react as well as field space considerations.

Any thought on shorter handles to dampen input, or just go with the 13" std?

[stroke survivor]

80' lines and 13" handles are pretty much a good starting point for anyone!! Line length is usually dictated by room on your flying field or comfort level!! 13" handles are the "standard" length supplied with all the 1.5 packages, whether it's a "B", SLE, or EXP!! Longer or shorter is left up to your own "feel"! Pretty much your call on that!!

[awindofchange]

I would just go with the standard 13" handles, shorter handles can make it harder to get the control and feel. Kids pick up on this stuff so fast it will amaze you. 80' lines will be fine as well. I usually teach on 75' - 100' lines, depending on what I happen to grab when setting up. The 1.5 frames will fit in all of the 1.5 series kites - EXP, 1.5 SLE and the B-Series. Any frame with interchange with any one of these models. You could slide an SLE rod into the EXP or the B-Series if you wanted to and it will fit no problem. The end caps will fit either rod without any modifications. As mentioned above though, the 3 wrap standard rod is surprisingly durable and if the kite is flown in mild winds (10 mph or less) there is very little chance that you would break it. I would suggest using the standard rod for beginners as the SLE rod makes the kite twitchier and faster. It can be fun once you get the experience but it does lessen the overall control of the kite.

Hope this helps.

[REVflyer]

I've always taught, even the shortest kids on long throw handles. (minimum 13's, or 15's, 17's and sometimes even longer still)

YES it is twitchy and responsive, so their grip must be loose and light (good skills to adopt immediately). Only the tiniest flick is necessary for flight movement to be initiated and a decent slap of dual-thumb power may in fact invert the kite entirely, but rest assured it stopped all forward motion beforehand.

I show them how to let go entirely of the handles, so it can't impact severely or glides back downwind for field recovery, with the most important lesson of all as the cartwheel. We always start with that as the first formal move or skill to be acquired, ('cause when they get that ~ they don't need me anymore!)

Let 'em chase around alone a little bit on their own, then give 'em another piece to work over. Very quickly I want them inverted and working on backing-up the kite while maintaining this orientation. Get confident in you ability to not crash forward when flying or hovering inverted. That old back-up to waist-high and hold it crap we have each faced or will eventually.

In good wind you can hover up-right and practice, but in more demanding conditions you'd better learn right quick that the kite is more stable with it's weight down on the bottom and the sail square to the wind (that is an inverted hover) or leaned real far away (an inverted glide)

okay so laugh away,.. .I've never don anything conventionally!

[SparkieRob]

G'day mate, glad to hear you had fun at the clinic. Really jealous that we don't have anything like that "down under".

I'm still learning new stuff on my EXP, not just control but also it's limitations and I've only been on it 3 weeks. It can be little slow to react but that can be a good thing starting out! The 3 wrap LE can take some punishment even in the higher winds but it doesn't fly as fast as an SLE. I got an EXP with the view it was going to be my starter kite, my kids starter kite and my loaner kite and that it would have to take a bit of over corrective ham hands. I find the std handles good and the 25 meter (80 foot) lines just fine.

I don't regret going for the basic model as it is still a joy to fly and I don't mind if it gets a little battle worn.

Hope this helps.

[lamrith]

Thanks guys! Sounds like a EXP would be a great choice like I was hoping.

REV - I like your ideas, and they line up similar to what JB taught the novice class Sat. His one lesson was around flying straight up the window, invert then brake and fly back down, walking toward the kite. The idea was to show how much room you could recover flying in light winds, back up 5ft, recover 15..

Good reminder again about "give to the kite" when in trouble..

[katrina]

My 8 yo daughter flies my old Bs, isn't she lucky? The older Bs are not icarex, so they are a little more durable. I let my 16 yo nephew beat the heck out of my B standard with 2 wraps in, in vented winds, it's just fine. So maybe find a less than perfect B someone wants to part with. Or a used SLE. Isn't the sail of the SLE better than the EXP? I had an SLE, but never an EXP to compare to. You know that regular rods will go in the SLE, right? gwtw has an active trading forum. must register to see it.

Rods: 3 wraps. very unlikely they will break. And in addition, I bet if you post that you'd like a set of 2 wraps for cheap, you'd get some. Plenty of us have upgraded to race rods and no longer use the 2s. That would give more wind range.

Handles: 13s. My daughter actually flies on 15s. I'd get 13s for her if I were starting from scratch, but the 15s are fine. Yes, a beginner will tend to be twitchy, and longer handles will exacerbate that. But also consider that children have smaller hands and shorter arms. Longer handles give a bit of extension. One thing to really think about with the handles is the width of the grip. Very important. The standard grips are way too fat even for most women. I've shaved mine and my daughter's down a lot with a belt sander. It's SO much better. FYI, Mikey Devereaux of 180 go makes them out of aluminum (light!) with any size grip in diff colors, no snag, +/- $35 depending on options. If I hadn't modified mine already, I'd get a set from him for sure. I still might. You can find him on facebook or msg me and I'll send you the pics/info I have.

Lines: I'd go with 120s, but either one really. 120s will be better later, and give a huge window for learning, more time to react and correct before crashing. But shorter means beginners don't need quite as much beach space, and tangles/crashes/tip wraps are easier to deal with.

Larry, my daughter and I will be at the clinic in April, so I will meet you then.

[HedgeWarden]

I've been flying Revs about 3 years now - and everyone I've flown with can vouch that I am a slow learner. But, I'm around high end of intermediate experience.

All that to say, I have broken only two spars in all those years - both early in the learning curve.

Spar #1 - an EXP leading edge spar (3 wrap) which I did not insert completely over the center spar dowel (or often called a ferrule, although ferrules usually imply a exterior fitting like most dual line kites have on their leading edges.) Language correctness aside, if the leading edges spars are not completely engaged, the stress will splinter the outer spar on the first good gust.

Spar #2 - a race rod that did not take a full velocity crash focused on one wing.

IOW - stick to the 3 wraps (or 4 wraps in heavy winds) and a sail with enough venting to handle the wind speed without a lot of force, and the accidents will be few and far between, even with beginners.

Personally, I like the fabric of the EXP - I think it is ripstop nylon - because it is soft and rolls up nicely, doesn't crease. The superior sail fabrics seem to be fussier about folds, stretches, and mis-handling. However, the EXP definitely does not handle as well as the SLE or B series kites (IMHO). But the difference will not impact initial learning. For instance: would you rather teach your child to drive using a Chevy sedan, or a Ferrari?

One more opinion to put in your stir-fry pot.

-Fair winds,

[katrina]

Saw this EXP on GWTW, kite only, $100 shipped http://www.gwtwforum...hp?topic=7069.0

need to be registered to see swap section.

[lamrith]

I saw that too, he is a member on pkf and has it listed there as well. Just was hoping for something complete with lines since I only have the ones for my B. I am going to see what I can work out...

Looking at it, If I buy new handles and a lineset I am within a few dollars of buying a new complete package from AWOC and I get to choose my color.

Ohhhh my aching bank account!!

[lamrith]

Ended up with a new SLE. Thanks to everyone for thie input!

[lamrith]

And he already is flying the sail off of it. Made the mistake of putting him on my B midvent as the wind casme up at the end of the day today.

I think I no longer own a B midvent, he didn't want to give up the handles at the end of the day!

Flying the SLE then flying the B full sail I could myself tell the difference. Glad I have the SLE as it took a bit of a beating initially and I am not sure the 3wrap LE in my B would have survived, and it is there for the next new flier as I wanted.