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#81 SkyPuppet

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:29 PM

Sorry - but most will suggest that the top leaders should be almost as long as the distance from the top to bottom of the handles!! Don't see anything wrong with the bottoms, but I think the tops should be much longer!!! IMHO!!! Posted Image


I'm going to try this setup out tomorrow, hopefully it works out. No night mission tonight :(
Keep in mind the finished handles were made using only the factory leader pieces, which were only about 5" to begin with (top and bottom). Which struck me as odd... I figured the top leaders should be a little longer right from the factory, to compensate for the the bend in the handle, but these handles had leaders that were about same length top and bottom. I figured it was an SUL design thing, as these came from an SUL kit. But that's why there's only an inch between the handle and the first top knot and the handle and the bottom knot, because the leader material wasn't plentiful enough. There's about 3/8" between the top knots.
If it doesn't work out tomorrow, I'll be back on the 13"s till I get heavy enough line to try and make another one and that one will have plenty long leaders for sure :)

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#82 stroke survivor

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:44 PM

I'll usually keep the factory pigtail on the bottom and tie an extra knot in it for some adjustment!! Then I make my own top leaders using #170 bridle line!! Knots start out at the 4-5" mark (from handle end) and make one every 3/4" for as long as you decide to make them!! You're looking for a difference in length between the top lines and bottom lines of 3-6", maybe longer as you get better!! My 13" handles have top leaders 10" long, with knots starting 5" from handles, and knots 3/4" apart, 7 total!!!Posted Image

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#83 SkyPuppet

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 11:45 PM

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, see the subject "My leaders... your thoughts" under the Tuning and Adjustment section!! There are pics there that will show you a general idea!! Posted Image Post #1!!


:lol: Hey thanks for steering me in that direction! Checked out that topic, took some suggestions, here's the result:

Photo0114.jpg

After reading about how the leader line doesn't need to be doubled-up, this was an easy decision ;) Technically, if I go by how the leaders came stock, the first knot on the top leader is still the "factory" setting, but now I have 5 more brake settings if need be!
Thanks :)

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#84 Watty

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 10:48 AM

Yes, but even still, by most flyer's standards (including my own) that will still give you a ton of forward. Some people do prefer to fly with more forward, but pulling the brake in as much as you can manage helps to keep the sail full, and allows for smoother and more precise flying. When the kite has too much forward, you will find that when flying forward, the leading edge will go flat, and the sail will ruffle. The sail, at that point, is not full, and your amount of control is diminished.

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#85 SkyPuppet

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 11:35 AM

Yes, but even still, by most flyer's standards (including my own) that will still give you a ton of forward. Some people do prefer to fly with more forward, but pulling the brake in as much as you can manage helps to keep the sail full, and allows for smoother and more precise flying. When the kite has too much forward, you will find that when flying forward, the leading edge will go flat, and the sail will ruffle. The sail, at that point, is not full, and your amount of control is diminished.


Point taken. That's why I made the pigtail leaders, because the stock leaders that came with these 15" SUL handles had brutally too much forward. Both the top and bottom leaders were exactly the same length on each handle - about 5" - I didn't touch them, that's how I bought 'em. I figured maybe they were setup that way at the factory so the Rev would have more lift, kind of like how I move the tow-points up on my Zephyr for more lift in light winds. But from the response I'm getting from everyone, I'm starting to think these handles were setup imroperly at the factory.

Does anyone have some un-modified 15" SUL handles? If so, would you please measure the leaders and let me know the lengths, top and bottom? My handles are good to go now, but now I'm curious about these numbers, as I bought the handles new and they came setup as described above. They were pulled from a new 1.5 SUL Rev.
Thanks for the help everyone!:)

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#86 Watty

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 12:26 PM

Point taken. That's why I made the pigtail leaders, because the stock leaders that came with these 15" SUL handles had brutally too much forward. Both the top and bottom leaders were exactly the same length on each handle - about 5" - I didn't touch them, that's how I bought 'em. I figured maybe they were setup that way at the factory so the Rev would have more lift, kind of like how I move the tow-points up on my Zephyr for more lift in light winds. But from the response I'm getting from everyone, I'm starting to think these handles were setup imroperly at the factory.

Does anyone have some un-modified 15" SUL handles? If so, would you please measure the leaders and let me know the lengths, top and bottom? My handles are good to go now, but now I'm curious about these numbers, as I bought the handles new and they came setup as described above. They were pulled from a new 1.5 SUL Rev.
Thanks for the help everyone!:)


Yes, it is a shame. Only the B-Series handles come with pigtails. The handles just don't come setup for the kite to fly properly. It is unfortunate because a person new to Rev flying wouldn't know any better.

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#87 stroke survivor

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 09:09 PM

Got mine exactly like yours!! That's how they're sent out, you have to make your own knotted leaders for them!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#88 REVflyer

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:02 AM

my personal preference is having the top leaders almost reach across the gap between the two attachment points. All tuning is done on the bottoms leaders only, so the top "fixed length" is a constant. That way you can reach out there further for 3-D tricks & rely on muscle memory). The difference in lengths necessary for my preference is having those tops be at least 3 - 400% of the bottom lengths. The tops might be a foot long and the bottoms anywhere between 3 and 4 inches depending on the conditions. Different handle lengths have different leader lengths

The first piece of useful information to share with new Rev pilots is to why it is necessary to replace the leaders on the their handles at all! Just because it came from the manufacturer that way doesn't make it right. You need to have enough experience to identify what is correct for you and you alone. I carry extra Hi-test bridle line just to help people in need. Demonstrating how to adjust leaders and the reasoning behind it is so crucial to their success! Otherwise there's not enough reverse to control forward drive speed and begin working on the precision aspects of reverse and hovering. The kite shoots to the top of the window, . . ... . but then what? Revs are supposed to be so controllable you could land 'em into my hat!

I prefer no sleeving and the high test bridle line for leaders because it can be easily tied (and untied!) if line-sets need individual strand length adjustments. there's less crap to tangle when there's a ton of slack in the lines or if both handles are in only 1 hand too.

When the handles align perfectly, with the individual strings placed on a well-set stake, then and only then do you affix them to your kite. (too many people skip this step and then marvel when flying one that has been perfectly neutralized beforehand)

Next, you can tune for your own reverse comfort setting, beginning with the kite resting on the ground inverted. Keep making the bottom leaders shorter until the kite will back-up consistently from this inverted position. (in low wind conditions you make need to walk backwards as well!)

I use a doubled thickness of the 100 pound hi-test bridle line for leaders, but only put the adjustment knots in a single line of that leader, alternating from one line to the other at each knot. You can place these knots very close together with this assembly path, one full inch adjustments are too severe in my experience.

There are dozens of set-up solutions, your way may be different , it's all good, this is what works the best for me.

#89 B-13

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 07:30 PM

Hello everyone,

Saw a good deal in REV handles of 10" and there are two models
EXP 10" & STD 10" but same price for both
Apart from the info i got that the foam is thinner on the EXP one, can anyone here know what is the main difference and how padded thickness differs in flying.

Thanks
B

#90 RevWizard

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:52 PM

Hello everyone,

Saw a good deal in REV handles of 10" and there are two models
EXP 10" & STD 10" but same price for both
Apart from the info i got that the foam is thinner on the EXP one, can anyone here know what is the main difference and how padded thickness differs in flying.

Thanks
B

Very strange. Are they original Revolution handles or knockoffs?

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#91 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:05 PM

Doesn't sound right to me!! Rev makes their handles in odd lengths - 9', 11', 13' 15' !!! This is measured before bending!! 10' handles are probably 11" handles measured wrong!! 10" is distance from attachment to attachment!! 11' handles are sold for the Rev 2 or "B-2", most 1.5 fliers use 13" handles and some use longer! You do need to make new leaders for the top attachment point, then you can adjust the amount of brake you use!!

Thickness of foam is just a personal choice for comfort!! Doesn't affect the flying at all!!

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#92 B-13

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:37 PM

It's a deal from GWTW bargain posts. I think they are original as Steve from there is a genuine guy i dealt lots with before.
Just wanted to know the difference and for the price they are listed.

#93 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:57 PM

For most people, the 13" are used most often!! Some like shorter, some like longer, it's all a matter of personal liking!! But I'd call the 13", the standard length most use!!

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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