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#21 mdilucca

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 08:22 AM

I can make some up for you, I live in victoria as well...

Great to see another Rev flier in Victoria.... where doing great for an island... I think I will start up a team... giggles...

Rev-it-up

StevE D


Yeah Jason, come down to Clover Point and you'll see us Reving around :rolleyes: Steve is our mentor B) !!!!

Cheers
Mario

Cheers

Mario

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#22 TGunn

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 12:12 PM

I have been using pigtails on REV handles since 1993. Who knows, I might have been the first.


John,
In early 1991 I started making and using pigtail wth about 4-5 knots on them for my dual line straps, because it was a quick fix for when one of the lines became stretched longer than the other line. As a metetr of fact, I showed the idea to danial Prentice (owner of Shanti Kite products and American Kite Magazine), and he asked if he could borrow the idea to use on flight straps they were making.

About the same time in mid 1991, David Brittain and I started adding long knotted pigtail leaders to our Rev 1 handles for the same reason (line stretch), but we quickly discovered that something even better developed out of this idea, in that we were able to fine tune the lines better, to give the kite more or less break. This was a very cool tuning idea that radically changed the kite's peformance handling abilities for the better, and improved our flying abilities! : )

Troy Gunn

TKO Sport Kite Team - Founding Member
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#23 RevWizard

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 02:18 PM

John,
In early 1991 I started making and using pigtail wth about 4-5 knots on them for my dual line straps, because it was a quick fix for when one of the lines became stretched longer than the other line. As a metetr of fact, I showed the idea to danial Prentice (owner of Shanti Kite products and American Kite Magazine), and he asked if he could borrow the idea to use on flight straps they were making.

About the same time in mid 1991, David Brittain and I started adding long knotted pigtail leaders to our Rev 1 handles for the same reason (line stretch), but we quickly discovered that something even better developed out of this idea, in that we were able to fine tune the lines better, to give the kite more or less break. This was a very cool tuning idea that radically changed the kite's peformance handling abilities for the better, and improved our flying abilities! : )

Did you guys every photograph and publish anything or did someone else do it for you. I just want rule our me pinching your idea and maybe laying claim to something that wasn't also my idea.

I know I was playing around with my first pigtail idea as early as 1992, maybe even in 1991. I had the problem then that I wanted to get rid of the line clips and I had REV I lines which had different upper and lower lengths. This was because I wanted to use them on my REV II. My REV II had come with kevlar lines and I did not like them for two reasons. First they had too much friction. Second the would cut other kite lines too easily. The REV II had all four lines of the same length.
My next REV I, an SUL, which I got in late 1992 had lighter lines and a different bridle which used lines of the same length unlike the earlier REV I's.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#24 TGunn

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:41 AM

Did you guys every photograph and publish anything or did someone else do it for you. I just want rule our me pinching your idea and maybe laying claim to something that wasn't also my idea.


No, we never thought that there was a need to, other than us showing them to other flyers at festivals. And at that time with the World Cup competitions and competition rivalries between kiters around the world, we didn't go out of our way to share info with kiters across the big pond.

You said that you may have been the first one, and I simply added to the discussion by telling you when we first started using pigtails. ; )

I know I was playing around with my first pigtail idea as early as 1992, maybe even in 1991.


John, you said:

"I have been using pigtails on REV handles since 1993. Who knows, I might have been the first."


When you said that, did you forget what date you originally posted? Now, you quote a different date when you started using pigtails, why?
Honestly, neither you or I could possibly know if we were the first, and it really doesn't matter. ; )

Back then, communications of who did what and when, in kiting were not quickly
learned about around the world like they are nowadays, because only a few were even using the internet back then to communicate, whereas nowadays when someone does or says something, those that want or need to know, can find the info the same day.

I had the problem then that I wanted to get rid of the line clips and I had REV I lines which had different upper and lower lengths. This was because I wanted to use them on my REV II. My REV II had come with kevlar lines and I did not like them for two reasons. First they had too much friction. Second the would cut other kite lines too easily. The REV II had all four lines of the same length.
My next REV I, an SUL, which I got in late 1992 had lighter lines and a different bridle which used lines of the same length unlike the earlier REV I's.


I remember when we first started using the pigtails on our Rev 1 handles in "91", we still used the metal clips to fasten the lines between the pigtail knots. I think we did that because back then the Rev bridle didn't have knots to larkshead to, and since we constantly swapped line ends, so that the lines wouldn't wear out as quickly, we thought that we needed to keep the metal clips on the lines, and the fact that (if you rememebr correctly), we were still using the original wood Rev line winders (plastic ones weren't be produced yet by Rev), which had metal screws/pegs on the side to attach the clips to, when the lines were wound onto the wooden winders.

Troy Gunn

TKO Sport Kite Team - Founding Member
<a class="bbc_url" title="External link" href="http://tko.sportkite...d.com/home.htm" rel="nofollow external">http://tko.sportkite...od.com/home.htm


#25 RevWizard

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 01:11 PM

No, we never thought that there was a need to, other than us showing them to other flyers at festivals. And at that time with the World Cup competitions and competition rivalries between kiters around the world, we didn't go out of our way to share info with kiters across the big pond.

You said that you may have been the first one, and I simply added to the discussion by telling you when we first started using pigtails. ; )
John, you said:

When you said that, did you forget what date you originally posted? Now, you quote a different date when you started using pigtails, why?
Honestly, neither you or I could possibly know if we were the first, and it really doesn't matter. ; )

Back then, communications of who did what and when, in kiting were not quickly
learned about around the world like they are nowadays, because only a few were even using the internet back then to communicate, whereas nowadays when someone does or says something, those that want or need to know, can find the info the same day.
I remember when we first started using the pigtails on our Rev 1 handles in "91", we still used the metal clips to fasten the lines between the pigtail knots. I think we did that because back then the Rev bridle didn't have knots to larkshead to, and since we constantly swapped line ends, so that the lines wouldn't wear out as quickly, we thought that we needed to keep the metal clips on the lines, and the fact that (if you rememebr correctly), we were still using the original wood Rev line winders (plastic ones weren't be produced yet by Rev), which had metal screws/pegs on the side to attach the clips to, when the lines were wound onto the wooden winders.

In the early 90's we did not know of each other. We did not go to the same festivals or competitions. There wasn't anyone at any festival we went to with the same idea. There was not anything in any magazines to influence our ideas.
So, it seems we all came up with the same idea independently at about the same time.
Good enough for me.

I remember that on the early REV I's, they also had swivels on the bridle. I took the swivel off very early as I had had bad experiences with them in the past. I remember quite well the early REV I wood winders. The also had a stretch black strap with velcro to hold the lines down. This was later replaced by a clear plastic winder which I think my first REV II came with.
I also think my REV I SUL had this clear plastic winder.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#26 Baloo

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 01:17 PM

My old Rev 1 winder has a stretch strap held in place by 2 press studs.

#27 RevWizard

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 01:37 PM

My old Rev 1 winder has a stretch strap held in place by 2 press studs.

You are right. It did have those snaps where one end of the strap was fixed to the handle.
The velcro must have been later on the clear plastic handles.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#28 TGunn

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 04:35 PM

In the early 90's we did not know of each other. We did not go to the same festivals or competitions. There wasn't anyone at any festival we went to with the same idea. There was not anything in any magazines to influence our ideas.
So, it seems we all came up with the same idea independently at about the same time.

Good enough for me.


You're correct. No telling how may people come up with similar ideas at the same time, around the world. Like they say "Great minds think a like"! ; )

Troy Gunn

TKO Sport Kite Team - Founding Member
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#29 Madquad

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 02:18 PM

Hi all,

(in first place i apologize for my bad english)

A couple of moths ago i changed the set-up my original rev handles as well

I removed the metal triangles, bought 4 new endcaps, drilled new holes and connected new pigtails to my handles.
Hans from the Team4fun team adviced me to use the pigtails from bruno bonino (picture shows original Rev-handles)

Before the change my lines sometimes were hooking behind the triangles but after the change that problem was solved.

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It's not the size of your Rev.. its how you use it.
Seven days without flying a Rev makes one weak.


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batch-air4ce.jpg?w=230&h=230


#30 RevWizard

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Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:57 PM

Hi all,

(in first place i apologize for my bad english)

A couple of moths ago i changed the set-up my original rev handles as well

I removed the metal triangles, bought 4 new endcaps, drilled new holes and connected new pigtails to my handles.
Hans from the Team4fun team adviced me to use the pigtails from bruno bonino (picture shows original Rev-handles)

Before the change my lines sometimes were hooking behind the triangles but after the change that problem was solved.

Marc,
The next time you see Bruno, ask him where he got the idea of the straighter and longer handles along with pig tails.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#31 Madquad

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 01:47 PM

Marc,
The next time you see Bruno, ask him where he got the idea of the straighter and longer handles along with pig tails.



Well John...may i guess ???????......your idea ?!!!

For me it doesnt matter where the idea came from, i think its a good mod. for the original handles anyway.

bye

It's not the size of your Rev.. its how you use it.
Seven days without flying a Rev makes one weak.


http://www.air-4-ce.nl


batch-air4ce.jpg?w=230&h=230


#32 RevWizard

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 03:11 PM

Well John...may i guess ???????......your idea ?!!!

For me it doesnt matter where the idea came from, i think its a good mod. for the original handles anyway.

bye

Not completely, but he did get the ideas from me.

The straighter handle is an idea I picked up from David Brittain in 1996. He said try it, you might like it and I did.
The pig tail idea came up at about, as I recently learned, the same time by Troy Gunn in the USA and myself in Europe in the early 90s. I published it in Drachenmagazin around 1995 or 1996.
The longer handles is something I got going in Europe in the early 90s. I had extended the REV I long SUL handles by several centimeters.
The Italian quad fliers picked this up from me during my many trips to competitions in Italy.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#33 jburka

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 11:07 AM

I don't remember when I started using pigtails on my handles. But I wrote about my various handle modifications a lot on rec.kites back in '93 or so. You can see a collection of relevant posts, archived by Andrew Beattie, at:

http://www.kites.tug...ev.i.and.rev.ii

I actually stopped using pigtails probably 13+ years ago, once I found a setting I liked on my modified Rev I handles; I found that having all of the extra knots on the pigtails caused tangling while flying 3-D on 50# line... it wasn't until I started collecting B-series kites that I ended up with a bunch of adjustable handles!

#34 Madquad

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:41 PM

Still i prefer the pigtails.

Changing the set-up is , especially when switching between flying alone or in team, very usefull.

I didnt notice the problem of tangling at all.

It's not the size of your Rev.. its how you use it.
Seven days without flying a Rev makes one weak.


http://www.air-4-ce.nl


batch-air4ce.jpg?w=230&h=230


#35 RevWizard

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 03:03 PM

Still i prefer the pigtails.

Changing the set-up is , especially when switching between flying alone or in team, very usefull.

I didnt notice the problem of tangling at all.

I prefer pigtails except for indoor flying. As Jeff mentioned, they tangle too easy for 3D flying and 50# lines.
Outdoors with pigtails, I can adjust for the type a REV, I am flying and how I want to fly the REV.
For smooth easy going flying I will generally have the lower line a little longer then when I am working on tricks with my REV.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#36 jburka

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 09:13 AM

Changing the set-up is , especially when switching between flying alone or in team, very useful.


It certainly is...in certain situations. But my reputation as a rev flyer is built on being a short-line/3-d rev II flyer. I bought an 80' quad lineset this past May and it was the first time in probably 12 years I'd had a non-buggy-engine quad set over 50' long...and I stopped using those 50's at least 8 years ago! I'm usually on lines of 18'-25'. Shortest I've flown a II on was 6.5' (a 13' set doubled over so I could fly in a small rec room). Longest I've flown on was 150', with a Rev I.

The replacement of pigtails with static extensions is just one of the mods I've made over the years, along with extending stock Rev handles and using specially drilled end-caps to manage my bungee and line attachments (see the pekr fitting for a more modern and somewhat cleaner variant of my original method).

#37 DWayne

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 04:41 PM

Question, I put 7" pigtails with 5 knots top & bottom on my handles. I have to put the top lines next to the handles and the brake lines out at the 3rd or 4th knot. Is this because I don't know how to fly a Rev? Or is there something else that might be out of adjustment?
Thanks for any input.

Denny

#38 Jim Foster

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 06:55 PM

Put your bottom lines on the first knot from the end away from the handle. Put your top lines on the third knot from the end away from the handle and see how that works. If you don't have enough forward, move the top lines to the fourth knot from the end. If you don't have enough brake, move your top lines to the second knot. Keep adjusting until your kite flies forward and backward without the handles being in either extreme position. The kite should idle, that's stay in one place not going up or down with the handles in the neutral position or slightly in the forward or up position. With the kite inverted, you should be able to put on the brakes and the kite should stop and be able to rise inverted if you have enough brake. If not, you need to lengthen the top lines or shorten the bottom lines one knot. Make sense?
Fly together! Share the joy, Share the fun

#39 DWayne

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 08:39 PM

Put your bottom lines on the first knot from the end away from the handle. Put your top lines on the third knot from the end away from the handle and see how that works. If you don't have enough forward, move the top lines to the fourth knot from the end. If you don't have enough brake, move your top lines to the second knot. Keep adjusting until your kite flies forward and backward without the handles being in either extreme position. The kite should idle, that's stay in one place not going up or down with the handles in the neutral position or slightly in the forward or up position. With the kite inverted, you should be able to put on the brakes and the kite should stop and be able to rise inverted if you have enough brake. If not, you need to lengthen the top lines or shorten the bottom lines one knot. Make sense?


With the top lines on the first knot (about an inch from the handles) and the bottom lines on the 3rd or 4th knot from the handles I have plenty of brakes but have to point the bottom of the handles at the kite to launch. If I move the top line out 1 knot the kite backs itself down to the ground after launch unless I put 2 fingers over the top of the handles and pull the top lines with those fingers.

Denny

#40 RevWizard

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 08:58 PM

With the top lines on the first knot (about an inch from the handles) and the bottom lines on the 3rd or 4th knot from the handles I have plenty of brakes but have to point the bottom of the handles at the kite to launch. If I move the top line out 1 knot the kite backs itself down to the ground after launch unless I put 2 fingers over the top of the handles and pull the top lines with those fingers.

Denny

If you have short handles, you might need to give the REV a quick yank on the top lines using the handles to get it to let off.
When it is off the ground it should fly okay.
The REV when on the ground is laid slightly back. That is why you need to give it that quick yank. A dual line kite is different in that when the lines are taut, it just lifts off the ground by itself. The REV doesn't lift off so easily.

When the REV is in the air, how well does it fly?

I fly with a lot a of brake(lower lines shorter) most of the time as I like to work on tricks. For more relaxed flying I take off the brake a knot or two.
There are also a number of times where I change my line connections to the knots. You will, in time, develop your preferences.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





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