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Kite Winders


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#1 spudnut

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 04:15 PM

Is there a reason (good one that is) that most of the kite winders seem to be about 8" in length. I would think that one about 3 times the length ( i.e. 24") would not only be a lot faster in both winding & unwinding the lines, but it would also produce less twisting in the lines. Any ideas?

#2 --Pete

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:02 PM

Compactness in the kite bag, perhaps? For a typical lineset (say 100 x 90#) you don't need a winder any larger.

You should not be getting twists in the line if you wind on and take off correctly. Have you watched John's video on line management yet?

I am assuming (because of the forum) that you are talking about quad sets. Single line winders often are 24" or even more, especially for heavy lines - 200# and up.
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#3 Watty

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

I can only imagine carrying a 24" winder in my pocket while flying.

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#4 spudnut

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:34 PM

Twists are not a problem, but I was just thinking that each turn is a potential problem. With other types of quad line kites that I have, it works really well to wrap the lines around the handles that they are attached to and it takes far less time for setup and cleanup. I am just trying to be more efficient with time. I do not carry the kite winder in my pocket, so that would not be an issue, I leave it with the kite bag.

#5 stroke survivor

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:44 PM

You'll find that most of us carry ours in our pocket!!! Twists could get in there, but taking the line off the same way you put it on, doesn't allow twists to get in!!! I rarely have any problems and I remove my handles after every flying session!! The reason for removal is - 1.- I don't have as many handle sets as I have line sets!
2.- I use 2 different lengths of handles - 13" + 15"!!
Theoretically you could make your winders to any length, 8" happens to fit in the pocket nicely!!Posted Image

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#6 RevWizard

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:02 PM

The present size of 8", as Watty mentioned earlier, fits very well in the hip pocket of my jeans. I park it there so it is not lost laying somewhere else. I've been doing it the same way for about 20 years. The method function perfectly well for me. I have no problems with my lines and rarely ever have more then one twist when I unwrap the lines.
Now, this is not saying you should do the same. I suggest you determine for yourself the winder size and how you handle the lines.

History: The first REV winder was larger, in thickness,length and width. I don't have one any more, but I would estimate the thickness at 1/2" plus lines, 11-12" long and roughly 5" in width. It did not fit easily in the hip pocket. It was replaced with the smaller winder somewhere around 1991/1992.

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#7 --Pete

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:30 AM

...
History: The first REV winder was larger, in thickness,length and width. I don't have one any more, but I would estimate the thickness at 1/2" plus lines, 11-12" long and roughly 5" in width. It did not fit easily in the hip pocket. It was replaced with the smaller winder somewhere around 1991/1992.


Can anyone post a picture of one of these? I probably have one (since I have a very early Rev I), but I was not so concerned with history at the time, and may have wound something else on it.

My quad- and dual-linesets were all wound on another winder which definitely would NOT fit in a pocket. This one was driven into the ground, thus both marking my 'home' position, and providing a way to reel out any lineset desired. Note the two double reels (middle-left) which were for my quad-sets. Note also the 'combs' used to assure no twists as the lines were reeled in. From this, you may also understand that I did not fly via commercial airline to any kite fests. A further note: see the yellow lines on the right. I was usually a solitary flier, and felt comfortable flying hard-pulling duals like the Team kite and the 10' Flexifoil on bare, braided Kevlar .

Posted Image

And, yes, this thing was a terrible nuisance. I keep it as a bit of my kite-flying history.
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#8 monkey

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:05 AM

I'm pretty sure John's usual pants could fit a 24 inch winder. And an iPad. A weeks supply of food. A few phones. :D

But, seriously, I think it comes down to the idea that the small winders do fit nicely in the back pocket of a pair of jeans.
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#9 RevWizard

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:05 AM

I checked through my photos, no luck.
The lines were held to the winder by a wide elastic band which had two snaps. The male snaps were screwed to the winder on one end of the elastic band. It would wrap around all the lines and then would be snapped together.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#10 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:52 AM

I checked through my photos, no luck.
The lines were held to the winder by a wide elastic band which had two snaps. The male snaps were screwed to the winder on one end of the elastic band. It would wrap around all the lines and then would be snapped together.


I remember a wooden thing before the wide elastic band one...

Felix

#11 SkyPuppet

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:02 AM

Man, just about to head out to fly, but it sure does look like rain in Vegas today...... Posted Image:(

I like the Shanti Crazy 8 winders, but even better for me, I like the winder that comes with Prism Modulus line. 'Lil smaller than the Crazy 8.

I hold the winder loosely between my thumb and fore-finger when walking out my lines, allowing me to walk forward as the line unravels without looking at the winder. I don't think this would be possible with a 24" winder..... Might even hurt a little if tried Posted Image

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#12 --Pete

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 01:03 PM

I checked through my photos, no luck.
The lines were held to the winder by a wide elastic band which had two snaps. The male snaps were screwed to the winder on one end of the elastic band. It would wrap around all the lines and then would be snapped together.



I remember a wooden thing before the wide elastic band one...

Felix


OK, I can remember that one. A largish wood winder about 1/2 or 3/4" thick, radiused edges, clear finish, a black elastic strap screwed down at one end and with the snaps at the other. Wood-screw-backed male snaps screwed into the wood. The strap was long enough to actually go around the handles and keep them in place in the kite bag.
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#13 RevWizard

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 01:36 PM

I remember a wooden thing before the wide elastic band one...

Felix

Are you referring to the clear plastic one that had a wide elastic band that was not attached to the wider? The band that people kept loosing?

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#14 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:13 PM

Are you referring to the clear plastic one that had a wide elastic band that was not attached to the wider? The band that people kept loosing?


I think that I said 'wooden'...

Felix

#15 RevWizard

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:52 PM

I think that I said 'wooden'...

Felix

Was there really a wooden winder without a wide elastic band to hold the lines on the handle?
You have about a year more flying REVs then me and I haven't seen every change.
I did run across an early REV I that had bent metal ferrules on the leading edge. It is in Switzerland.

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#16 Jim Foster

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:34 PM

I'm pretty sure John's usual pants could fit a 24 inch winder. And an iPad. A weeks supply of food. A few phones.



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#17 RevWizard

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:43 PM

That would be a plural.

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#18 --Pete

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:05 AM

...
I did run across an early REV I that had bent metal ferrules on the leading edge. It is in Switzerland.


I had one of those, but I created it myself by flying it hard into the ground at about a 45 angle. I think the original external metal ferrules may have been a bit soft for the purpose. I replaced the central spar, but kept the bent one. Recently (with a MUCH better shop than I used to have) I was able to straighten the bent ferrule, so now I have a spare center spar.

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#19 --Pete

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:21 AM

Found the winder:

Posted Image

It is 11 5/16" long and .470" thick, made from what appears to be a 7 layer baltic birch furniture-grade plywood. Cut away for lightness, but with thought given to retaining strength where needed. All edges nicely radiused and sanded smooth. Finished with a slightly amber transparent finish (spar varnish, most likely). All-in-all, a nice piece of work.


The elastic is a nominal 5" wide, and fastened with good quality brass-bodied snaps. There are two brass round-head wood screws set into opposite sides of the winder for hooking on the lines (left and right? top and bottom?).

My suspicion is that the person who designed it and specified the materials had/has a marine construction background or is/was a long time boater. It probably added significantly to the price of the kite.

I think it has the original lineset on it (different length top and bottom) but there seems to be a set of home-made 2-line handles on 2 of the 4 lines, with the other two lines looped around their respective mates. My early form of line management, I suppose, although it doesn't help much now, since I've forgotten which color goes with which line, and whether the handles are are on the top or bottom lines. I really should unwind these, and get a length (and length difference) on these lines, as I suspect they are an original, as-supplied-by-Rev lineset from the summer of 1989. My recollection is that this lineset was 150' or 200'. I recall for certain that it was a LONG walk-of-shame.

Not a single Lark's Head knot anywhere. I seem to recall that the lines came with cross-lock clips, which I moved to the kite bridle and switched for McMahon clips (no pointy bits). At any rate, McMahon clips are what are on my old Rev I currently. I added adjustable leaders to my handles on the advice of Lee Sedgwick, but still used McMahon clips. The leaders were made from knotted parachute cord (from a surplus WW2 parachute!), and the McMahon clips would hold against these larger knots.
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#20 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 09:38 AM

That is the winder type that came with my first REV. It did have clips on both ends of the lines. The sleeving was black for the lower lines and I think white for the upper. Line length difference was about seven inches, top to bottom.
It must have been time consuming and expensive to build.
I am sure Lolly can shed some more light on it.

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