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Random Observations On Rev Flying


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#21 RevWizard

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:21 PM

If they were on a wood winder like mine(October 1990) then they were probably around 30 meters. That is around 110 to 120 feet. I would say they were around 120# but not 150#. Type I think was either Spider or Shanti, definitely not LaserPro.

My Rev II that I bought in 1991 in the UK had 23 meter Kevlar lines. This was on a clear plastic winder.
Then in October 1992 I got a REV SUL in the USA. It had 90#/100# Shanti lines of about 30 meter. This was also on a clear plastic winder.

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#22 Jynx

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 06:35 PM

Just a note:

I had Theresa make a set of 250' #90 quad-lines for me... LOVE 'em! Posted Image

...Now I can fly way up there with the biggins... Posted Image

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then there will be peace"

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#23 --Pete

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:00 PM

All right, all right. I WILL unwind them (off the original plywood 11" winder with wide elastic snapped keeper) and measure them (I recently bought a 300' tape, so I really CAN measure them). If there is an end sticking out from the sleeving, I will burn a bit and sniff to see what they are made from. No way to determine strength for certain, but I have quite a few kinds of strength/material labeled line and can compare diameters of similar smelling lines. It's about time I made these 4-way equal, and added something to the Rev I bridle so it can be flown on 4-way lines like modern Revs. I might even remove the old clips and set up to use lark's heads to attach lines so I can be really modern.
--Pete
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#24 SkyPuppet

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:39 PM

I might even remove the old clips and set up to use lark's heads to attach lines so I can be really modern.


Posted Image It's funny to me to think of the lark's head noose as "modern" Posted Image

I realized a few things about water and Revs today, things many of you who don't live in the desert may already know: the Rev is light, and water is HEAVY. I was consistently surprised at how my 1.5's attitude changed after various parts of the sail were dipped in the water, especially the leading edge.







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#25 --Pete

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:57 PM

Posted Image It's funny to me to think of the lark's head noose as "modern" Posted Image ...


Well, as a knot, it certainly isn't. As a kiting knot, it certainly is; at least when viewed from a kite-historical viewpoint. It definitely became popular during my time as a kite flyer.

When I started with kites, it was all knots - usually an overhand on a bight or double overhand, with sheet bends and bowlines for people who were experienced knot tyers.

As people began to fly several kites using the same lines and line-sets, especially expensive linesets, where freely cutting off a few inches every time you changed kites was too expensive, clips, borrowed from fishing suppliers, became popular.

Finally, sometime around the late 1980s (I think) someone in the kiting world figured out that a stopper knot on one line, and a loop on the other would allow an easily tied and released connection between two bits of string. (It does NOT work well with heavier rope. The stiffness of the rope makes it insecure under light load, and then hard to untie if it has been REALLY put under load.)


--Pete
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#26 HedgeWarden

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 05:34 PM

How many people put a knot near the end of the loop so that there is a short tab to pull, to loosen the lark's head knot for disassembly?

Using spectra bridle line as sleeving creates a thin, neat, and secure loop for the lark's head. But it can be darned hard to grasp with one's fingernails to undo.
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#27 --Pete

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:04 AM

How many people put a knot near the end of the loop so that there is a short tab to pull, to loosen the lark's head knot for disassembly?

Using spectra bridle line as sleeving creates a thin, neat, and secure loop for the lark's head. But it can be darned hard to grasp with one's fingernails to undo.


Well, I haven't yet begun the conversion to Lark's-heads on my kites and lines, so I expect that I will do this (fat-fingered as I am).

Using a magnifying glass (jeweler's loupe, actually) and needles, I have untied some very troublesome knots (overhand knot in a gold chain so small you can barely see it, for instance). But why would I want to set myself up to untie difficult knots as a regular thing? Yes, I think I will add the tab.
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#28 SkyPuppet

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 08:27 AM

How many people put a knot near the end of the loop so that there is a short tab to pull, to loosen the lark's head knot for disassembly?

Using spectra bridle line as sleeving creates a thin, neat, and secure loop for the lark's head. But it can be darned hard to grasp with one's fingernails to undo.


I like having the tab to pull the knot loose as well! I like to add my tabs to my loops though, rather than tie them within the loop itself:
Posted Image
Tie some small loops, then lark's head them onto your main loops. Much easier for me to keep the lines equalized this way.

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#29 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:40 AM

I use SkyPuppet's method with one difference - I make my tag ends much shorter!! I use the core line inside the bridle line to make mine!! I start with long loops for tags, double-larkshead them on the flying line loops, retie the tags shorter, then trim off the excess!! Makes breaking down at the end of the day so much faster for us visually challenged!! Also makes changing your handle adjustments so much quicker!! I even use them on my Indoor setup!!! I just find them to be so much faster than trying to get a hold of that sleeving or raw line!!

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#30 RevWizard

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:53 PM

The only place I use the pigtaillets is on my Rev Indoor lines which do not have any sleeving.
The sleeving for most of my lines is very thin and in four colors(kind of). I bought this sleeving at the Luftpirat(gone out of business) in Hamburg. I keep my fingernails quite short and rarely ever have a problem loosing the "Lark's head" knots.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#31 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:15 PM

The only place I use the pigtaillets is on my Rev Indoor lines which do not have any sleeving.
The sleeving for most of my lines is very thin and in four colors(kind of). I bought this sleeving at the Luftpirat(gone out of business) in Hamburg. I keep my fingernails quite short and rarely ever have a problem loosing the "Lark's head" knots.



John- I tried to get by without tags, just impossible for me to grasp the sleeving easily!! Especially when I went to thinner sleeving!! Adding the tags made all my kites easy to break down or make adjustments!! Just my 2 cents worth!!

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#32 RevWizard

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:05 PM

John- I tried to get by without tags, just impossible for me to grasp the sleeving easily!! Especially when I went to thinner sleeving!! Adding the tags made all my kites easy to break down or make adjustments!! Just my 2 cents worth!!

It is perfectly fine to know that you are quite pleased with your method.
As I always say, with REVs, everyone should choose the method they are most comfortable with.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#33 goestoeleven

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

I like having the tab to pull the knot loose as well! I like to add my tabs to my loops though, rather than tie them within the loop itself:
Posted Image
Tie some small loops, then lark's head them onto your main loops. Much easier for me to keep the lines equalized this way.


One of the things I love about returning to kite flying after (most of) 25 years away is how much there is for me to learn. This looks good, and I'll have to try it out. I have a couple homemade line sets where I was running low on sleeving (so the loops are pretty small). This will work out perfectly . . . as soon as I get some more line.

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#34 SkyPuppet

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:03 PM

I hope it helps goestoeleven! It used to make me crazy, tying the final 4 tabs within the loop and then trying to get that even, and keep the knot centered on the loop...... So much easier to tie the loops, get them even, then add the tabs - they don't have to be the same size, and you can loosen the lark's head and slide them around to get them centered on the loop, if you like.

I noticed something about the Axel today. There is definitely a sweet spot in regards to the height I attempt an Axel at. On 50' line, the sweet spot starts at my shoulders and goes about 10ft up from there.
Anything above this required me to run backwards after completing the Axel to load the sail enough to resume flight. Because the lines go slack during this trick, and because of the starting height, when I pull to start it I actually pull the Rev in towards me.
Anything below this height made it difficult to pull the Axel cleanly, meaning relatively flat to the ground without much angle in the rotation. Pulling an Axel closer to the ground also means my exit requires more input from me to keep the Rev from skimming the ground. The line wants to wrap around the bottom of the handle as well.

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#35 Jim Foster

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:49 PM

How many people put a knot near the end of the loop so that there is a short tab to pull, to loosen the lark's head knot for disassembly?


I have been doing that on our lines for years. It not only makes them easy to undo, it keeps the right and left pairs from coming undone during the winding and unwinding process.
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#36 SkyPuppet

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 01:33 PM

The weather people out here in Las Vegas are lucky they aren't on a "pay for performance" salary plan. They called for wind "less than 10 mph" this morning. Glad I checked the online weather station before I left, as it was a 17 mph average when I arrived!

I like the 2 wrap in the full-vent very much. It (Ni !) flew much better in 18 mph than I thought it might before trying it. Which brings me to a tip to pass along, especially useful for a novice pilot:
When the wind gusts hard, I let the handles slip of my middle, ring and pinkie fingers into what I call the "OK" grip on my handles:
Posted Image
Notice how I'm holding the handles with just my thumb and forefinger looped together, like you are saying "Ok", my middle, ring, and pinkie fingers are not touching the handles much, if at all. This puts the kite into full-blown acceleration. The Rev will be at the top of the window, so I make sure to prevent it from flying over my head and behind me with some minor finger corrections. The Rev starts to behave more like a dualie kite with this grip, with pushing and pulling with my arms to control turns.
When almost straight above me, the Rev has a very flat profile to the wind, allowing the wind to spill off the sail quickly, causing it to keep from powering up. Letting the handles "slip" off my fingers allows any power in the sail to be released quickly.

Using this method, or the tried-and-true "hard acceleration" hand position (thumbs back as fast as I can), gives me the confidence to experiment outside of the high-end of any particular frame's wind range.

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#37 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:05 PM

Recycle an old bridle! If your handles have leaders without pigtail adjustments, you can use part of an old bridle to make some.

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#38 SkyPuppet

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:01 PM

I love flying the Rev because its a skill-based activity. Like any good sport, practice yields rewards; it is impossible to pick the Rev up and fully realize its potential - or your own - immediately, but spend just a little bit of time with it, and work with it and enjoy it, and soon its a natural extension of your physical being.

Clockwork Turns come to mind here. While I can practice most fundamentals of the Rev endlessly, and enjoyably, I have come to appreciate the Clockwork Turn as something I will always enjoy practicing. The amazing way the Rev handles always has me feeling I can do it better, no matter how many times I do them. I never feel like the Rev is holding me back, rather, it feels like its waiting for me to come along.....

I'll never grow tired of this Posted Image

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#39 SkyPuppet

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 01:27 PM

New Indoor pilot observations (flying on 50# 12' lines, stock handles):

1. The Indoor is NOT tolerant of my dumb, semi-uncoordinated left hand (I'm right handed), while flying with the above-mentioned setup. I imagine that I will be flying better, on the "outdoor" Revs, left handed, once I become more proficient with the Indoor Rev.

2. The upright side-slide seems all but impossible.... Lateral movement in general doesn't seem to be this kite's forte.

3. While lateral movement doesn't seem to be a strong suit of the IR, reverse movement is excellent and has a great tactile feel to it.

4. Truly walking backwards, away from the IR, takes some practice. I seem to want to walk more sideways than backwards, making lateral corrections necessary as I do 360s. When I force myself to concentrate and walk away from the center of the IR specifically, I have better luck with keeping a more consistent pressure in the sail.


5. While all the Revs are related, and while the Rev 1 platform was the basis for the Zen..... I feel some similarities between my Zen and the Indoor, in regards to handling. Maybe its the big belly these kites have in common, or the sharper acute angle of the sail at the LE wingtips, but I "feel" my Zen when I'm trying to fly my IR. I wonder if this feeling would be the other way around for a pilot who learned an IR first and then got a Zen....

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