Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

have i done/am i doing, the right thing?!!!


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 london pete

london pete
  • Forum Member
  • 4 posts
  • Location:london

Posted 24 October 2011 - 11:58 AM

Hi All
Have just received brand new rev- A gorgeous b series, and had my first few attempts at something resembling 'flight!'
Had some success, but was hoping for a bit of advice on a couple of things..
Firstly ,after much deliberation, i decided to go for the vented rather than the standard b series and am wondering if i've chosen the wrong one!
I've been out in pretty gusty winds and have got the kite in the air ok, but am finding it 'dropping' quite a bit as if it's too heavy. My lines seem to be sagging a bit too.
I've watched quite a few films of the vented kites in winds that seem lighter than those i've been flying in, and these kites seem to be staying in the air pretty easily( i.e. the kite stays airborne without a lot of tugging at lines and the lines seem taut at all times..).
I've kept with the 4 wrap frame for the time being, but would i notice a big difference if i swapped to the included 3 wrap? Also, do vented kites need 20 mph+ to really perform properly? I think i went for the vented as i got the impression that it would be more precise than the standard and could still fly well in 10mph-ish winds.. Is this true?! And do you guys with more experience than me, think i've made the wrong decision in getting a vented b series??!! ( i can't get another kite- The wife would kill me!)
The other thing is a bit of an embarrassing one- Basically, i've always been a bit sketchy about the connection of the lines to the kite. I know this sounds a bit daft but the bottom/brake line connection has a long loop on the kite..Do i attach the lines to any point along this loop or to the knot at the bottom of the loop?!! Does it make a huge difference either way? Sorry for sounding so dim, but i couldn't see any clear guidance for a total newbie like me!
Any help would be appreciated- esp from any londoners who i might be able to join up with/ learn from. (looks like blackheath is the main place, although i've mostly been crashing my kite at richmond park).
Thanks a lot folks
pete

#2 HedgeWarden

HedgeWarden

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chehalis, WA

Posted 24 October 2011 - 04:47 PM

Pete,

The vented should fly well down to the lower teens (say 10-12 mph), and lower if you are skilled. If you are drooping, and if you have some confusion on the brake lines - well adding 2 + 2 and getting I don't know for sure ... but be sure you are attaching the lower (brake) lines correctly. The B series may have an included DVD that should show setups, as I remember - if you got the full deal with 2 sets of rods and handles.

There should be a short doubled bridle line with a knot, on the lower part of the bridle, just as on the top part. Lark's head the lines behind the knot in the bridle. Connecting the bottom lines is exactly like connecting the top lines, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Certainly try the 3 wrap rods if your kite is sagging. Unless the kite is pulling furiously, the 4 wrap are usually not called for. In 15 mph winds and up, the lines should be very straight, and the pull noticable.

One more item, you know the vertical spars go *behind* the kite, unlike duals which have the spreaders in front.

Don't know if this helps. Would certainly like to see what you are doing, since it should be very easy to sort out.

Unfortunately, without some help from other fliers, it may take some time to get a handle on controlling a quad. JB's tutorials on this site (or on Kitelife site?) should be helpful. Once you "get it", it is like riding a bicycle. You will wonder why it was so hard to pick up.
-Howard
No, this is my first childhood!

#3 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:56 PM

Both top and bottom lines are attached to the bridle using a "larkshead knot"!! John B. has a tutorial on how to form this knot!! There is no tying of lines to bridle!!!! Take the time to equalize your lines, all should be of equal length!! If not adjust as needed!! Nothing more maddening than a kite that wants to steer itself!!

Kite dropping out - sounds like you're letting your thumbs fall forward, telling the kite to go down!! Gotta keep the thumbs rotated back to keep up!!

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#4 andelscott

andelscott

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:40 AM

Hi All


Hi Pete - not sure which part of London you're in, [EDIT: just re-read the post! you did say - sorry!] but I would recommend trying to get over to Blackheath one Sunday (morning?) where there are normally a bunch or Rev pilots playing, including 'The Decorators'. You will get all the advice you need. Alternatively if you're way out to the North of London, Dunstable Downs on a Sunday afternoon would provide the same input! You'll find attendees of both locations on this forum and so it's worth checking to see that they'll be there before you make a special journey (just in case they're all away performing at some exotic kite festival).

As mentioned, take a look at some of JB's 'getting started' videos at http://www.learnkites.com/ - and 3 wrap in a vented is just fine - do not worry if the leading edge flexes and bows a bit - it does not have to be straight to provide the control you will want.

As mentioned, you'll see four short tassel like strands on the bridle - two on each of the 'vertical' sections of the bridle. There is a knot at the end of each tassel, so your larkshead knot runs over the end of the tassel and sits against this knot as it pulls tight (preventing the line from sliding off, of course). There are a few fliers who use modified bridles, but that just complicates issues, so just be warned that if it looks different to yours, it may just be because it is!
Andy

#5 REVflyer

REVflyer

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,327 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germantown Maryland

Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:03 AM

On the handles, relax your grip, (Geesh, you ain't holdin' an angry cobra!) So softly held that they feel like they could be effortlessly pulled from your grasp. Relax your forearms, fingers and your hands, honestly many folks are squeezing the life out of those poor foam grips.

Think little tiny adjustments/rotational movements on the handles, then wait and see what reaction is caused to the kite. Slow and graceful.

The lines should be separated individually, dropped onto a well-placed stake and then affixed to the handles with all four lines going to a single point down wind on the stake. Pull the handles back removing all of the slack and visually compare each side to the other, insure the handles align perfectly when fetched-up tight. If not perfect you must adjust, either the overall length of the longest lines or at least the leader knot locations.

Take some colored vinyl electrical tape, on the right handle affix a colored stripe below your top leader. This visual cue will allow you to quickly identify which handle goes where, when they aren't in your grasp.

Turn the kite upside down, leading edge resting on the ground. Keep adjusting the length of your leaders until such time that the kite will back-up from this inverted position. Oh this action will seem impossibly difficult in the beginning! I know, we all went thru painful sessions learning reverse. Imagine I have my arms outstretched behind your kite, so that you can only fly to "that height". Practice this inverted backing up (you are slowly pushing both thumbs towards the kite, less is more!, tiny corrections, okay?) six times. Rise to my arms and then slowly lower the kite back to the ground. Now double the height of my arms and try it all over again. I know it wobbles all over the place, wants to turn-around and fly forward. Been there ~ done that

The point of this exercise is to become comfortable with the kite upside down and NOT moving. Holding a hover is one of the basic skills that actually drives the quad-lined bus. The inverted hover is actually easier to do, as the weight is down and so also are the forces of gravity. It flies smoother inverted. When conditions suddenly warrant a pilot panic, most of us invert the kite and/or we fly off to the sidelines, waiting for that rogue hurricane wind to diminish.

So, you keep practicing this inverted flight until you have wasted a few minutes (and become complete frustrated). Now go chase clouds, get a drink, take safety break or use the can and then, when you are relaxed again, come back to your old faithful practice mode. Eventually you should be able to back that darn thing up to the top of the window like it was on railroad tracks, inverted, slow and laser straight. This will take many, many, many hundreds of hours of practice, but it will come eventually.

Forcing you to use that reverse immediately also dials in the kite to the maximum wind pressure from any given set of conditions. You are making the sail square to the wind. If you are "adding forward drive" by shorting the top leaders you are going the wrong way with your adjustments. You're tuning to dump air pressure off of the bottom (or trailing edge) of the kite!

Please go back to the inverted lesson. If it won't back-up, you don't have enough DOWN in the tuning (or maybe the kite is wrong for today's lowered wind conditions?). Okay so your vented kite will be easier to learn on in a big wind. You're looking for sustained winds in the double digits, occasional gusts can go to double that number. You don't want to fight 3-7 mph though, you're after 15-20 steady, so the kite does all of the work.

Again relax, this is supposed to be fun. You're going to be abusing your new kite for a few first sessions, (later on you'll watch newbies doing it too, as you cringe in pain providing lessons) The kites are actually quite durable and we all started the same way my friend.

The first lesson to really feel good about yourself accomplishing is the cartwheel. When you can roll over the kite, back to upright and ready to launch position (after impacting mother earth) it is a truly joyous occasion. Keep working on your inverted flight from resting on the ground. It will cut years of frustration away. The cartwheel is just using one of those handles to fly inverted and keeping the other handle perfectly stationary. That one wing (side) you are effecting will cause the kite to roll-over. I don't wanta' see you sliding it across the field either!

Remember a couple of things from this mess of text: lines even & tuning for reverse flight,
(or: get that kite squarely filled with air pressure and make certain your handles align perfectly before attempting flight)

Get a local coach to help you along.

Enjoy your flight sessions until your face hurts (from smiling!) then go home to prevent permanent damage to facial features. How do you think the name quad-head came about anyhow? We all have these foolish grins on our faces and they can't be removed, so we're easy to identify!

#6 ahofer

ahofer

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 239 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Princeton, NJ

Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:10 AM

If you have set up questions, I heartily recommend JB's tutorials-




You can see how his lines are attached at about 1:20 in the second video.

You will get a visual on everything you need to do. Typically, the lines are secured with a lark's head around the bridle loop. The knot at the end stops the lark's head from slipping off and leaves the lark's head secured in the proper place. So no, don't use the loop in the bridle.

4-wraps are very heavy. I use them only in very high winds when the kite is flexing and I want to slow things down a bit (and now I just move to my Xtra Vent). So I would definitely recommend swapping to three-wrap. I think I would have had trouble learning on vented kites, but once you start flying reflexively they can be more fun on your own, as it makes slack lines and reverse easier and smoother. For group flying, you'll want way more acceleration available so you'll tend to use a full or MV and ride the brakes instead.
When I was young, my bologna had a first name. Now my bodywash has an "Objective".

#7 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:44 AM

Hi All
<snip>
Any help would be appreciated- esp from any londoners who i might be able to join up with/ learn from. (looks like blackheath is the main place, although i've mostly been crashing my kite at richmond park).
Thanks a lot folks
pete


Hi Pete,

We'd be happy to check your set-up on Sunday at Blackheath c10:30am - 1:00pm on the field north of the Church in Blackheath Village. Maggie just posted a picture from the other week when Steve (goestoeleven) joined us on the Heath.

Felix

#8 london pete

london pete
  • Forum Member
  • 4 posts
  • Location:london

Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:37 AM

Thanks so much to you all for such extensive and useful advice.Felix, I,ll try to make it along to blackheath on Sunday, and I,ll check out the links too.
Thanks again!
Pete

#9 london pete

london pete
  • Forum Member
  • 4 posts
  • Location:london

Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:32 PM

Thanks, will try the 3 wrap and yes, i have the vertical spars in the right place I think! Will adjust lark's head as you suggest and see what happens..It was just confusing me as the loops on the bridle of my kite are v. Short at the top and v. Long at the bottom. But will try connecting to the knot of each with larks head and hopefully I'll be dazzling from there on!
Cheers,
Pete

Pete,

The vented should fly well down to the lower teens (say 10-12 mph), and lower if you are skilled. If you are drooping, and if you have some confusion on the brake lines - well adding 2 + 2 and getting I don't know for sure ... but be sure you are attaching the lower (brake) lines correctly. The B series may have an included DVD that should show setups, as I remember - if you got the full deal with 2 sets of rods and handles.

There should be a short doubled bridle line with a knot, on the lower part of the bridle, just as on the top part. Lark's head the lines behind the knot in the bridle. Connecting the bottom lines is exactly like connecting the top lines, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Certainly try the 3 wrap rods if your kite is sagging. Unless the kite is pulling furiously, the 4 wrap are usually not called for. In 15 mph winds and up, the lines should be very straight, and the pull noticable.

One more item, you know the vertical spars go *behind* the kite, unlike duals which have the spreaders in front.

Don't know if this helps. Would certainly like to see what you are doing, since it should be very easy to sort out.

Unfortunately, without some help from other fliers, it may take some time to get a handle on controlling a quad. JB's tutorials on this site (or on Kitelife site?) should be helpful. Once you "get it", it is like riding a bicycle. You will wonder why it was so hard to pick up.



#10 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 25 October 2011 - 01:08 PM

Thanks so much to you all for such extensive and useful advice.Felix, I,ll try to make it along to blackheath on Sunday, and I,ll check out the links too.
Thanks again!
Pete


Pete,

Unless the weather is really bad we will be there.

If you are not able to be there next weekend just turn up in due course.

What takes a long time to describe in words can often be dealt with very quickly by demonstration.

Learning how to fly the Revolution Kite may take a little while but it is a worthwhile investment. <grins>

Felix

#11 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:40 AM

Pete,

Unless the weather is really bad we will be there.

If you are not able to be there next weekend just turn up in due course.

What takes a long time to describe in words can often be dealt with very quickly by demonstration.

Learning how to fly the Revolution Kite may take a little while but it is a worthwhile investment. <grins>

Felix


Hi Pete,

Good to meet with you today on Blackheath. The vented certainly was the right kite today! "Edit 4 wrap spars" <grins>

Felix

#12 Maggie

Maggie

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:32 AM

Hi Pete,
Pleased to meet you. A little memento of your first rev flying visit to Blackheath.
Maggie

#13 Maggie

Maggie

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:33 AM

Whoops!!! Here is the pic!

#14 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:54 AM

Maggie - No pic posted here!!!

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#15 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:49 PM

Maggie - No pic posted here!!!


It's in Maggie's folder rather than attached to the post!

Felix

#16 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:16 PM

It's in Maggie's folder rather than attached to the post!

Felix


Thanks Felix!!!

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#17 london pete

london pete
  • Forum Member
  • 4 posts
  • Location:london

Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:21 PM

It's in Maggie's folder rather than attached to the post!

Felix

Hi felix, Maggie, Ashley. Great to meet you all on sunday and thanks for all your help and advice. Was a tough wind and hope I didn't damage those 4 wrap spars of yours felix!
Hope to see you there again soon! Cheers

#18 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

Hi felix, Maggie, Ashley. Great to meet you all on sunday and thanks for all your help and advice. Was a tough wind and hope I didn't damage those 4 wrap spars of yours felix!
Hope to see you there again soon! Cheers


Hi Pete,

As I said on Sunday, you would be very unlucky to damage a 4 wrap spar.

See you soon!

Felix




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users