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RevLines - LPG vs Modulus


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#1 wef

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

Gday from Down Under (or Up Over depending upon the time of day and your orientation)

Returning to flying Revs after a long layoff. Much of the technology currently available did not even exist when I learned the little I know about kiteflying. So I am asking for your opinions and expertise in a few areas (at the moment -probably many more questions in the future). Have perused this forum and many Vendor's blurbs about some gear. Have not yet found answers to a few of my questions.

I have a 1.5 JBstd w/Race Rods (black) and am contemplating a 1.5 JBvented to go with it. Will plan to have a set of each kind of rod (2/3/4wrap, and race). Mostly fun flying on the beaches of Sydney. (Might consider carrying along to festivals where I usually fly SLK - when I recover my lost skills(?)). Relaxed rather than aggressive, 'flash' or 'tricksy' style. Winds usually 2-10 or 15-30kph. Not too much in the way of nasty gusty winds (stay inside drinking wine on those days). Do not see much team flying in my horoscope.

Currently have a set of 50#/120', (assume LPG -Thanks Paul), 13' and 15" handles. For my other lines a local dealer is suggesting Modulus line sets as opposed to LPG. Have not been able to find out much on the difference between the two. Prism website seems to say "each is better than the other". Maybe? Could you please comment on this choice considering my flying type and equipment and value for money (cost difference not a consideration).

Am comfortable with the 120' lines. Are any other lengths really important or helpful for my type of (proposed) flying.

Your opinions will be appreciated. Thanks for your help. William
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#2 wef

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 07:52 PM

The link in my previous post is malformed. See if this one works any better. William
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#3 wef

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:19 PM

The link in my previous post is malformed. See if this one works any better. William


No luck. The Forum software seems to malform and truncate My Link in my signature block. Link should read

http://members.iinet...~wef_associates

This forum software seems to handle them differently than the others I have used.

Looking at the preview of my post it seems to work when typing it - it is malformed when previewing it.
if I do use Insert Link from toolbar above then it is also truncated.

Is there a FAQ on inserting links. Is there any way I can preview my Signature Block without finalising a Post.

Will De-Link until I can get this straightened out. Regards William

btw: name of website is "members.iinet.net.au" that is followed by "/~wef_associates" (without quotes)
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#4 awindofchange

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:27 PM

Modulus is such a strange word to use for the Prism lines - as all kite lines now days whether they are LPG, Shanti, Berry Blue, Dyneema etc... are all modulus line.

Anyways, Prism Modulus line is actually Laser Pro Gold line with an additional coating that is baked into the line while it is being made. This coating gives the lines their red and blue coloring. The lines themselves are very good quality lines, and they are said to be slicker than normal LPG lines. I am not sure about the slickness more or less, but they are very nice lines.

The thing that concerns me is that Prism only makes these lines in dual line sets. In order to get a set of these for quad, you would need to get two sets of these. For the price,this seems rather expensive compared to the other normal quad line sets.

Another thing that may be a downside to these lines is that the sleeving is sewn onto the lines. This makes re-equalizing these lines over time very difficult to do. You either have to rip the stitching, re-sleeve and then re-sew them back on, or just cut the original sleeving off and put conventional sleeving back on with normal knots.

Another issue that may or may not be an issue is how these lines will play with other brands of line. If you are flying team or with other flyers, these lines may not work as good with the others when crossed or mixed. It may cause binding or slickness issues. I have not personally flown the Prism lines with other brands so this may not be an issue at all...but it probably should be checked out first if you are flying with others.

Hope that helps.

#5 wef

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 08:41 PM

GDay Kent

Thanks for the quick and informative reply. I think I interpret your comments to mean "use LPG -same line- unless there is a specific reason to use 'Modulus' (marketing term) and be ready for some possibly unexpected results". I think I was leaning toward that sort of conclusion. Unless there is more information which might be of interest to other readers of this thread I will switch our future (commercially-oriented) discussions to email at AWOC if that is OK with you. Thanks William
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#6 REVflyer

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:30 AM

Wef,
different line lengths allow your to explore new variables in flight. If cost is not a hugely serious consideration then add some different line lengths to your bag and explore your new options based upon you mood and the local conditions that day.

On short lines in low wind you can do an up & over (flying directly into the wind direction). Of course, the breeze steers the kite one way or other eventually. Since the lines are short though you can fetch-up that extra slack right quick and "place" the kite anywhere you desire, 360 degrees. "Walking the kite upwards" during a series of slack line alternating executions (rising axels). Try the kite without a bridle (affix extra leader lines to the down spar end-caps) and a dozen feet of line on your 15 inch handles with your lightest frame set. It's a completely different animal, for a dollar's worth of extra bridle line!

Mid length line-sets are great practice sessions for graceful throws & catches, slow, flat axels, flick flaks and slammin' the kite around, like stab landings and the falling leaf trick. Oh sure you don't want to do that flailing (YET! but it adds a whole new set of skills to your current all smooth & graceful objectives accomplished with team-length lines).

These darn Rev thingies have a way of pushing everything else out of your favorite "A"~bag of kites as well,
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#7 wef

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 04:08 AM

Wef,
different line lengths allow your to explore new variables in flight. If cost is not a hugely serious consideration then add some different line lengths to your bag and explore your new options based upon you mood and the local conditions that day.

On short lines in low wind you can do an up & over (flying directly into the wind direction). Of course, the breeze steers the kite one way or other eventually. Since the lines are short though you can fetch-up that extra slack right quick and "place" the kite anywhere you desire, 360 degrees. "Walking the kite upwards" during a series of slack line alternating executions (rising axels). Try the kite without a bridle (affix extra leader lines to the down spar end-caps) and a dozen feet of line on your 15 inch handles with your lightest frame set. It's a completely different animal, for a dollar's worth of extra bridle line!

Mid length line-sets are great practice sessions for graceful throws & catches, slow, flat axels, flick flaks and slammin' the kite around, like stab landings and the falling leaf trick. Oh sure you don't want to do that flailing (YET! but it adds a whole new set of skills to your current all smooth & graceful objectives accomplished with team-length lines).

These darn Rev thingies have a way of pushing everything else out of your favorite "A"~bag of kites as well,
- welcome back! -


Gday Paul
Thanks for examples of good things to do with short-er lines. As you might remember I am much too fat and lazy to run around flailing and tricking but maybe someday - when I am young and beautiful again it will all happen. But first to get the thumbs and wrists back in practice. On longer lines (thanks again for them). When I reach that stage we will have to meet somewhere in this world (Cervia?) and I will get some lessons from you. Meanwhile the JBstd/race is starting to earn its keep.

Missed you and Barb at Dieppe this year. But you did not mind missing the mud. Maybe see you there 2013. Will most likely not make it in 2012. Ciao William
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#8 stroke survivor

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:57 AM

Since you've already got some 50#x120', I'd suggest 90#x80', 90#x120', and a short 50#x50'!! Would let you fly with others (90#x120'), have a set that gives you some room (90#x80'), and a short set if you have limited room or light winds (50#x50')!! Plus the 90# will handle the stronger breezes easily!!! Anything else is up to your own discretion!! Posted Image
Having the JB std and vented will let you play in almost every wind condition!!! Good move getting all the frames - adds even more flexibility to your setup!! Enjoy!!!Posted Image

PS: I'd stick with LPG or Shanti for my lines!!

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#9 awindofchange

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:23 AM

William, feel free to e-mail me any time with whatever you need.

#10 wef

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:28 PM

Since you've already got some 50#x120', I'd suggest 90#x80', 90#x120', and a short 50#x50'!! Would let you fly with others (90#x120'), have a set that gives you some room (90#x80'), and a short set if you have limited room or light winds (50#x50')!! Plus the 90# will handle the stronger breezes easily!!! Anything else is up to your own discretion!! Posted Image
Having the JB std and vented will let you play in almost every wind condition!!! Good move getting all the frames - adds even more flexibility to your setup!! Enjoy!!!Posted Image

PS: I'd stick with LPG or Shanti for my lines!!


Gday Stroke
Thanks for the suggestions. My fat old fingers and hunt and peck typing have again betrayed me. The 50/120 should have read 90/120. So I have already followed one of your suggestions. You are also saying that 90# should be my standard except for the specialist light stuff at about 50#. And that 80' is a very useful length for (wash my mouth out) playing with myself. With possibly a shorter set for the occasional lash out or tricking. All sounds reasonable. So maybe I should get some 90" bulk line and make up a few sets to length. Rummaging through the old stuff I found some spools of #80 spectra -brand unknown but maybe Bainbridge - (used for dual liners). Is that a useful line - weight or should I save that for the 2 liners.

Glad my plans for a JB std and a vented seem like the most flexible and appropriate for my flying style. I am already enjoying the std. Good to be back flying Revs. Thanks. William
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#11 stroke survivor

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:42 PM

As long as the bulk line you have is spectra and shows no sign of deterioration, using it is ok!! LPG or Shanti makes most of the line used today by the majority of fliers!! Posted Image That makes compatibility no problem!! If you're flying alone, or making short sets, use what you got!! Posted Image Since you have 90#x!20', you got team stuff handled!!

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#12 Jeepster

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:42 AM

Shanti has a great reputation for being very slick. They will absorb quite a number of wraps before starting to bind. Thus, you'll find dual line folks swear by it as the best line on the market. Shanti line (at least the stuff from a few years ago) doesn't have a coating added ... that "nakedness" seems to contribute to it's slippery nature.

LPG has a coating that helps hold the weave tight, and unfortunately, detracts slightly from the natural slipperiness of the spectra fibers. With new line sets in a head-to-head contest, Shanti lines will out wrap LPG lines every time.

So, why not equip your Revs with Shanti lines? If you'll always be flying by yourself then go for it ... I've got a set that is great when flying solo!!! But, if you even think you might fly with someone else in a team like setting, then make your lines from LPG. When lines are crossed at a slight angle, the Shanti weave will grab and lock up the line sets. The coating on the LPG line keeps the weave closed and it doesn't lock up.

Cheers,
Tom

#13 RevWizard

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:48 AM

I prefer Shanti. However they do have one drawback. That is when you are team flying with Shanti and the other team members have LPG, the Shanti lines will lock up on multiple wraps with LPG. In turn, if all team members are flying Shanti, then this problem does not exist.
Yes, I do have a pair of 120 LPG lines in my bag, just for team flying where the other lines are all LPG.
Most of my Shanti lines are over 14 years old. Most are sets are still in great shape.

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#14 SkyPuppet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:04 PM

Bummer :(
Depressing to hear that Shanti and LPG will not fly harmoniously with each other. Most of my line sets are Shanti, including the 120's.

I fly on a Prism Modulus 50# 75' set, it started as a carry-over from my dualie days. I did exactly what Kent said above, I bought 2 75' dual-line sets. I find it to be considerably more durable than Shanti's 50# line, although I will admit that the fields I fly on are rough, full of dandelion stumps and bare patches. The durability factor is the main reason I like it. It is definitely not as slick as 50# Shanti, but close enough for my flying style.

I like the red and blue colors. I separate the 2 sets into an all red left and right pair, and an all blue left and right pair. Easier to keep track of when I rotate the lines from top to bottom. I like how the blue line almost disappears into the sky while I'm flying.

Unfortunately for Prism Modulus, I only like the 50# line they offer. The higher weights seem um, "crunchy" to me - maybe they have too much of the coating baked on?

I've never tried LPG line (other than the Prism Modulus line, as mentioned above its made by LPG). Looks like I'll be buying a 120' set soon though!

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#15 Jeepster

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:05 PM

... if all team members are flying Shanti, then this problem does not exist. ...


You'll have to share the secret then. My son and I have attempted to fly together on Shanti line sets - just the two of us - and kept getting the lines locked up.

Cheers,
Tom

#16 RevWizard

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:38 PM

You'll have to share the secret then. My son and I have attempted to fly together on Shanti line sets - just the two of us - and kept getting the lines locked up.

Cheers,
Tom

I flew competition pairs for several years with Shanti (SPEED to be specific) and never had a line lock.
It seems to me the Decorators also fly Shanti.
You might verify you are flying the same type of Shanti lines.
Now if you wrap too many times the lines will start to lock.

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#17 Felix Mottram

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:00 PM

I flew competition pairs for several years with Shanti (SPEED to be specific) and never had a line lock.
It seems to me the Decorators also fly Shanti.
You might verify you are flying the same type of Shanti lines.
Now if you wrap too many times the lines will start to lock.


We flew Shanti for many years.

Switched to LPG some time back.

Not sure what our current sets are...

Felix

#18 david ellison

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:00 AM

Not sure what our current sets are...



LPG...



#19 Theresa

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:49 AM

LPG...


:) :)

#20 Felix Mottram

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:01 AM



David kindly used the lamp post (whatever) in his street in Devon to run out and tie the lines.

We are very grateful for his efforts as carefully tied lines make all the difference!

It is _essential_ to have correctly set lines...

Felix




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