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Blast vs. Shockwave/Supersonic?


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#1 4sp

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:46 AM

Hi,
I have some 1.5 kites which are great, but I'm dying to get a speed series kite, or Blast. I understand that the Supersonic is a smaller version of the Shockwave. But looking at photos of the Blast and speed series, it's hard to see what the difference is. They have the same shape, frame layout, etc.

I would like something that can pull hard without fear of breaking spars or stretching the sail out (ie. not a 1.5 series kite). And something fast! Can anyone enlighten me as to the difference between the Blast and the speed series kites? Does the Blast have the speed of the speed series (if not, why wouldn't it?) No local rev flyers around here unfortunately (Western MA), so I can't test drive...

Thanks,
Nat

#2 stroke survivor

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:28 AM

Sorry, don't have a good knowledge of the Speed or power kites, so we'll wait for others to jump in, but I don't think the Shockwave or Supersonic are different sizes!! Different performance parameters, but I believe the size is the same!! The Blast is a bit bigger yet! I would suggest you check out the product line on the home page and make some notes on the different models, size, speeds, wind ranges, etc, etc....!! All good basic info!!! Should help you at least get an idea!!!

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#3 SkyPuppet

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:48 AM

Hi,
I have some 1.5 kits which are great, but I'm dying to get a speed series kite, or Blast. I understand that the Supersonic is a smaller version of the Shockwave. But looking at photos of the Blast and speed series, it's hard to see what the difference is. They have the same shape, frame layout, etc.

I would like something that can pull hard without fear of breaking spars or stretching the sail out (ie. not a 1.5 series kite). And something fast! Can anyone enlighten me as to the difference between the Blast and the speed series kites? Does the Blast have the speed of the speed series (if not, why wouldn't it?) No local rev flyers around here unfortunately (Western MA), so I can't test drive...

Thanks,
Nat


I have some questions to add to your questions 4sp.

The Blast seems to fly in less wind compared with the Shockwave/Supersonic, according to the specs anyway. But otherwise, they seem to share common performance traits - very fast forward speed, faster than 1.5 reverse speed, with some pull. I'm not interested in traction kiting, just in having a kite that is super quick forwards and backwards (Shockwave) and performs in less wind (Blast).

it fair to say that the Blast is kind of like a SUL version of the Shockwave/Supersonic? Do these kites really share similar performance when in the middle of their wind ranges? Can the Blast be made to do all the tricks?

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#4 katrina

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:54 PM

I've flown a couple of borrowed supersonics, and they are a lot of fun! Sorry I can't compare to shockwave for you though. I'd call the company and ask. I asked Ben if he ever flies anything besides the 1.5 . Alas, I can't remember if he said shockwave or supersonic.

I flew a blast once, just briefly. Don't remember it being as fun as the supersonic.


Just pretend all my statements are prefaced with IIRC, AFAIK, IMHO, and end with "Just my $.02," okay?
(And stop asking for cookies, all you new darkside converts! It was all just a ruse to get you here!)

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#5 lylenc

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:05 PM

The Supersonic is fast and generates quite a bit of pull as the wind speed picks up. It is my understanding it is slightly smaller than the Shockwave. The Supersonic has a little less pull and more speed, at least in turning if not forward and reverse too.

Beyond that I can't help you much. Would guess both are faster and less pull than a Blast.

The Supersonic does awesome inverted side slides. It's like an arrow screaming across the window inches off the ground. My body can't tolerate a lot of pull, so I fly the Rev 2 mostly for some speed without too much pull. The Supersonic might be faster in forward and reverse than a Rev 2, with no doubt about it being faster in inverted side slides.

PS: Flying a Rev 2 on 50' lines in over 15 - 20 mph wind is a rush; normally use 85' lines. Switch to a vented Rev 2 above that. The Rev 2 gets from point A to point B in a blink. Can't imagine doing that with a Supersonic, half a blink and scud marks!!!!
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#6 FLY TILL YOU DIE

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:51 PM

The Supersonic is fast and generates quite a bit of pull as the wind speed picks up. It is my understanding it is slightly smaller than the Shockwave. The Supersonic has a little less pull and more speed, at least in turning if not forward and reverse too.

Beyond that I can't help you much. Would guess both are faster and less pull than a Blast.

The Supersonic does awesome inverted side slides. It's like an arrow screaming across the window inches off the ground. My body can't tolerate a lot of pull, so I fly the Rev 2 mostly for some speed without too much pull. The Supersonic might be faster in forward and reverse than a Rev 2, with no doubt about it being faster in inverted side slides.

PS: Flying a Rev 2 on 50' lines in over 15 - 20 mph wind is a rush; normally use 85' lines. Switch to a vented Rev 2 above that. The Rev 2 gets from point A to point B in a blink. Can't imagine doing that with a Supersonic, half a blink and scud marks!!!!


I have all 3, my favorite is the supersonic, 70 mph fast, the shockwave is about the same speed but pulls more; The Blast really pulls hard but I think it's slower, with a 1/4 inch leading edge flys well in light winds. If interested you should check out GONE WITH THE WIND SWAP Meet. I have a Shockwave & a Blast for sale. Good Sailing John

#7 FLY TILL YOU DIE

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:07 PM

these are my kites. John

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#8 awindofchange

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:26 PM

The Supersonic is the smallest of the three you mention, still larger than the Rev II though.

The Shockwave is about 2 inches longer and about 2-3 inches taller. Although this is only a tiny amount, it does slow the kite down a smidge but increases the overall pull by a bunch. Both the Shockwave and the Supersonic will pull twice or more than a normal 1.5.

I would be very hesitant to say they were light wind kites. They will float incredibly well so they do fly in the lighter winds but it takes a ton of skill to master. IMO, light wind is NOT what these kites are built for. They are fast and will put a huge grin on your face just putting the spars in and getting it ready for flight. NOT your first rev though, they are twitchy and mega fast so you really have to think well in front of the kite, snaps of the wrist will be 360's, dive stops are so quick you will lose the kite. They really are awesome to fly and the Sonic is my most favorite kite in the right winds. I normally won't pull either of these kites out unless the winds are above 10mph. Thats where I feel these kites really come into their own and are funnest to fly.

The Blast is much bigger than both of these. The larger sail area does slow the kite down a bit so it is not as fast as the Sonic or the Shockwave. Still, it is much faster to fly than the 1.5's, I would say about as fast as the Rev II but with a ton more pull. The Blast will pull harder than the Shockwave will, I would say it is a very good middle between the 1.5 and the Power Blast 2-4. Light wind performance on the Blast is much better than the speed series but it still takes tons of experience and technique. I wouldn't really call flying it in winds under 5 mph that fun, but it can be done with a bit of effort. It will not replace a 2 wrap B-series or SUL. In the lighter winds, the Blast also has a ton of float so gliding it back and forth is pretty cool, again it takes time to figure out how to fly it in the light stuff. Stronger winds (5+ mph) it starts to behave like a normal Rev with a bunch of oversteer, 10+ mph and it is a "Blast" to fly! (pun intended)

All of these kites can do everything that the 1.5 series can do, you just have to realize that the Speed Series will do it much faster and will be much more twitchy when doing it. Hovers are not going to be nearly as smooth and precise and side slides - awesome fast but not nearly as controllable (or graceful) as the 1.5 sized kites or the Rev 1. As for the Blast and control, the larger mass of the kite makes it harder to pull precision out of it. When coming out of spins or turns it will have a ton of oversteer and you need to counter-react to get the kite to snap or stop turning. Speed is fun and the pull is really cool to play with.

If you are looking for ultimate precision and control, these kites are probably not what you are looking for. If you are looking for something totally exciting and different than what the 1.5 series kites are, these kites will quench your thirst!!!

If I was to rate these in the amount of air time mine get, it would be Sonic first, Sonic Vented second, Shockwave and then Blast.

Hope that helps.

#9 stroke survivor

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:10 PM

Sorry, I stand corrected!! Posted Image Should have looked at the home page myself, then answered!!! Posted Image Excuse me!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#10 FortFlyer

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:14 PM

I own all of the above mentioned kites, Including vented versions of the supersonic and blast.

The shockwave while being only slightly larger than the sonic for some reason I still after all these years cannot seem to grasp why it requires more control and is much more squirrely.

The regular sonic is nothing but fun, very fast very responsive although I do prefer the vented version you can't go wrong with either.

The Blast is a completely different animal, It is fast it pulls hard if you get it packaged with the race rod LE it can fly in some really low winds (even indoors) again I prefer the vented version of this, Reason being is once you get the experience with any Rev vented seem to be the choice for smoothness. (The name says it all it truly is a BLAST)

Either way you go or choice you make I suggest having experience with a 1.5 at least and I would invest in the 150# line set, while 90# will work OK, It doesn't take much for these kites to stretch out 90# and it usually ends up being 1 of the 4 for some reason which can totally mess up your tuning and drive you insane.

I live on the south coast of Mass. myself and very frequently go to Newport RI on the weekends, if you like you are more than welcome to get a hold of me and we can plan to meet there sometime. I have all of these kites in my bag and I'll gladly pull them out and let you have a go on them.

Out of all the kites listed for now I would say shy away from the shockwave, Once you have lots of experience it can be the most fun of all because it is the most challenging of all the speed series.

God Luck, Jim
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#11 awindofchange

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:22 AM

No worries Wayne, they are very close and when set up side by side, it is hard to see the differences.

#12 kwmf

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 03:08 AM

Hey Kent

Care to throw in a comparison of the Power Blast 2-4 in there as well for educational purposes?

#13 awindofchange

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:01 PM

Sure thing. The biggest differences between the Blast, the 2-4 and the 4-8 is power and overall precision. The larger the kite, the more power it produces but the less precision it has. I think it is mainly due to the amount of mass that the kites have, not really the size. The 4-8 weighs a ton compared to a 1.5, this is from the larger sail area but also from the heavy duty spars that need to be used in the kite to support the power. When you get all that weight moving, it takes a ton of counter-steering to get it to stop.

The 2-4 is just like the Blast but bigger. Sorry to point out the obvious but that is really it. It pulls harder, flies a little slower but still faster than a 1.5 series and will have a ton of oversteer when you get the kite spinning and want to come out of it. The float on the 2-4 is really cool though, you can do a lot more with it in the lighter wind ranges (below 5 mph). It takes a very delicate hand in the light winds and it will seem to float on its belly for ever. Glides away from you are really fun and side slides are smooth and very floaty. When the winds start to get up around 8+, the power comes on and you better put some rocks in your pockets to hold you down once you get the kite moving.

The most awesome thing about the 2-4 is that if you control the brake lines, you can take the kite up in a very strong wind and it won't be pulling hardly at all but let the brake lines lose and it rockets forward and will yank you out of your shoes. :) :) :) It is really fun.

Another difference with the power series kites is that the sensitivity between depower and full power gets more sensitive as the kite gets bigger. The 2-4 has a setting on the handles that is about 2 inches from maximum power or "barely not stalling" to where the kite starts dumping power and floats. On the 4-8, this is about 1 inch movement. The Blast it is about 3-4 inches of movement. In the "Floaty" or "Depower" position, you can stand flat footed and hold the kites with two fingers on the handles. When you crank in the brake lines and put the power back in the kite, you need to have a good solid grip or it will yank the handles out of your hands. This is really cool because you can fly it aggressively and be dragging around but just flick the wrists and drop the brake lines out and the kite loses nearly all pull and you can relax.

Another difference is that with the 2-4, you tend to move your hands down lower on the handles than you normally fly a Rev, with the 4-8, the handles are specially made with two bends in each handle and you fly it with your hands nearly in the middle of the handles between the top and bottom lines. You can't fly it with your hands on the top like normal Revs. Also, with the 4-8, it is almost necessary to pull in one handle before initiating turns, similar to flying a Dual Line kite. If you don't pull in hard on the side you want to turn, the kite turns very slowly and not nearly as responsive. The 2-4 has a tiny bit of this same behavior but not nearly as required as the 4-8.

They are all very fun to fly and the 2-4 an 4-8 work excellent in a buggy if you are wanting high speed runs and have a lot of room to get the buggy up to the speed of the kite.
The 4-8 is a beast and can be cumbersome to fly without a buggy or board to get it moving. The Blast and the 2-4 would be better choices at the park and static flying. Longer lines also give these kites more sky to play in before hitting the edge of the window and needing to be turned around.

Hope that helps.

#14 4sp

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:58 PM

Sorry, don't have a good knowledge of the Speed or power kites, so we'll wait for others to jump in, but I don't think the Shockwave or Supersonic are different sizes!! Different performance parameters, but I believe the size is the same!! The Blast is a bit bigger yet! I would suggest you check out the product line on the home page and make some notes on the different models, size, speeds, wind ranges, etc, etc....!! All good basic info!!! Should help you at least get an idea!!!


Oh yes, believe me, I have looked at the info pages! I knew I could count on the forum membership to make that correction! ( lest I seem petty!Posted Image)


Thanks for the info everyone. I think I will go with the Supersonic(unless I find a really good deal on a blast or shockwave!). Is there anybody that prefers the Shockwave?

I already have a 1.5B standard, which is great. Then I went on to get a 1.5B full-vent 'black rainbow', because I was afraid of a situation where the wind would be strong, but I would be afraid to fly my standard sail for fear of breaking spars and whatnot. Probably should have got a midvent, because the times I have tried to use the full-vent, it's very slow, and I can barely get it in the air. Still waiting for that really strong wind...

Anyways, I'm sure I keep buying kites in the future, but one of the double-vertical spar Rev kites seems like something I need to have asap!

Thanks for the thorough review, Kent,
And FortFlyer, I will take you up on the invite. I noticed you are the only other MA kiter on the member map!


Thanks,
Nat

#15 SkyPuppet

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 07:32 AM

Thanks for the reviews everyone! :)

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#16 lylenc

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:55 AM

I flew my Supersonic and Rev 2 yesterday in variable winds in the lower half of their wind ranges on 85' lines. Wind varied from not enough to be in the air to enough to start pulling hard. The forward speeds weren't that far apart, but would probably be greater in higher winds. The Supersonic was much faster in reverse and the Rev 2 had faster rotations. As known, the Supersonic had more pull and was reminded more noise. It also had more twitch than I remembered. The Supersonic did cartwheels better, especially at the edges of the window. The fact that it flies reverse much better made cartwheel change of direction easier, from horizontal to vertical or circular, and cartwheel control at the edge of the window better. As the wind died, the Supersonic seemed to have better control in the float position. The Rev 2 is still my favorite for some speed with less pull and twitch, but the Supersonic is fun to pull out of the bag if speed and pull are what you are after.

PS: As mentioned above, the Supersonic comes to life above 10 mph. Some of the twitch I mention here disappears in the higher wind. Due to physical limitations on pull tolerance, I have to put the Supersonic in the bag when much pull develops - thus, my preference for a Rev 2.

Saved the video below to Favorites, it's awesome.
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#17 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:45 AM

<snip> I flew my Supersonic and Rev 2 yesterday in variable winds in the lower half of their wind ranges on 85' lines. <snip>



Ha ha! lylenc, you read my mind, I was going to post if anyone had compared a B2 (Rev2 comparison works for me) and a Supersonic or Shockwave! :lol:

That settles it for me - When I pull together enough scratch (cheddar, greenbacks, loot, dinero, chips, bread, broccoli, Benjamins, fetty, clams, notes, shiny, bucks, dollars, cash, money) I'm gettin' a Supersonic.
Ah, but I think I should invest in a B-Pro mid-vent first and foremost, as I will be moving all my 1.5s to B-Pros someday........

I need to open a lemonade stand or something.

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#18 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:28 PM

Ha ha! lylenc, you read my mind, I was going to post if anyone had compared a B2 (Rev2 comparison works for me) and a Supersonic or Shockwave! :lol:

That settles it for me - When I pull together enough scratch (cheddar, greenbacks, loot, dinero, chips, bread, broccoli, Benjamins, fetty, clams, notes, shiny, bucks, dollars, cash, money) I'm gettin' a Supersonic.
Ah, but I think I should invest in a B-Pro mid-vent first and foremost, as I will be moving all my 1.5s to B-Pros someday........

I need to open a lemonade stand or something.


I spent a lot of time with the Supersonic and Shockwave kites on an individual basis and enjoyed learning how to take on the side slide tendency:-



Felix

#19 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:23 PM

Awesome vid Felix, fastest precision flying I've ever seen ;)

I really like the reverse wingtip pivots! :)

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#20 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:55 PM

Awesome vid Felix, fastest precision flying I've ever seen ;)

I really like the reverse wingtip pivots! :)


<grins> It was a pity that the camera was not up to speed... Passing traffic gives a comparison of course!

I had pretty much perfected the 720+ degree spin to a 'slam' stop at any orientation in a similar fashion to the way a small tissue/mylar fighter kite is flown.

The stop/turn/stop/fly sequence with 1.5 kites is what I am working on currently.

Felix




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