31 replies to this topic

[xC4RB0NxR3104Dx]

Well, I recently had ordered an SLE online about a week and a half ago. At this point i got impatient, so I called and found out there was a problem on my end with my Debit Card, so no online for me Needless to say, i have a local kite shop which is about an hour away form me (cobra kites anyone???) So went there with the intent to to buy an SLE. Well since it was such a long drive my Dad ended up taking me.

Spending Problem: we ended up walking out with a B-series, A prism Zephyr, and a Prism Tensor 4.2........... That's one way to spend $1000 in kites. (also, a reminder to other teenage fliers, If your father is also interested in Kites, Father's day is soon xD) But hey, when it is a father-son hobby, joy is priceless (now how to explain that to my mother.......) At a curiousity, anyone else ever have a funny little spending spree like that, you know, the one where you go to get 1 thing and you walk out with several things?

Anyways, we ended up trying to fly at a soccer field near our house. It was frustrating to say the least. The only good was that I crashed so much, that I managed to master the reverse re-launch. It's a totally diferent feel form the dualies we've always flown.

So after that wonderful crash fest I'm left slightly overwhelmed an with a lot of questions. Mostly on Attaching/disattaching lines to handles ( our dealer gave us the barressi for $310 with the line included FREE!!!) So we figured out unwinding and attaching pretty easily, but it seemed like a lot of work. So when winding back up, is there a way to do it and leave the handles still attached to the line????

[cgregurich73]

There is a turtorial on line management. That shows both taking? Lines on and on handles

[stroke survivor]

Ok, crashfest is over!!! Let's get down to business! Did you take the time to make your lines equal? Hard to control a kite that wants to steer itself!! As was said before, there are excellent tutorials on equalizing lines and line management, my advice is to watch them and get as much info from them as you can!! Back to the flying part - try launching a little ways up, hovering ( hold it as still as you can), then land!! Do it over and over till you can keep everything together!! Then go higher, but do the same thing, stop. then land!! Gradually you'll get a feel for what the kite is doing!! No push/pull like the dualies, thumbs back, thumbs forward!! Conquer step 1, then we'll go from there!!

[Baloo]

Worth having alook at Kitelife.com loads of tutorial vids on there, even more available if you subscribe to them.

If you search on here you will find videos and help in plenty, youtube also has a lot of help vids on it, both John B (Kitelife) and Spence (Watty) Watson have put a lot of info out there.

BEST thing to do, shout out and find other Rev fliers in your area and get together with them. You will learn LOADS, and make some good fiends.

And welcome to the obsession that is Revolutin flying, bet you get more than One.

[--Pete]

{snip} At a curiousity, anyone else ever have a spending problem like that?{snip}

Isn't the most fun about a new hobby (or a new sub-section of a hobby) going out and BUYING SOMETHING?

[xC4RB0NxR3104Dx]

BEST thing to do, shout out and find other Rev fliers in your area and get together with them. You will learn LOADS, and make some good fiends.

I was thinking about that, I'm sure there are several good pilots in the jersey area. However, for my 1st try, i thought i should see how I do. After watching some of the kitelife videos, and watching everything on the DVD, I think I'm going to give it one more shot solo.

If that doesn't work out, which thread should i post on to ask for a tutor?

[stroke survivor]

There are a whole bunch of fliers in the Jersey area!! One other thing you can try - if you're gonna crash - don't pull, GIVE!! Makes the crash a whole lot easier on the kite!! Try your turns higher up in the window, when you first try them!! Good luck!!

[xC4RB0NxR3104Dx]

I was out at wildwood beach most of the day today, and I was determined to fly this thing (since the 1st flight was more crashing than flying.) The winds were 4-8mph, and with the 3 wrap frame, I could only really fly effectively in 6+mph it seemed (I was measuring the winds with an wind meter.) However, I didn't want to use the 2 wrap since I am still learning. Anyway, I can now get the kite up in the air and down smooth. I can move about the window freely in almost any direction. I can also launch from a number of weird crashes (I really only crashed when the wind dropped below 6mph.) But, i still don't have quite the finesse needed to get the kite go in a straight line. I can get the kite anywhere in the window... just with an angled attack.

After taking your guys' advice and watching some of the kitelife vids, setup/disassembly went smoother than expected.

I think there may be a problem with my kite or bridle. when I attempt to spin left, the left leg will sometimes bend backwards and buckle under the kite, however this only happened some of the time, and would occur about halfway thru the spin. I inspected the kite mulitple times, but didn't see any obvious problems.

Also, I had an odd occurrence. While I was flying I felt a sharp pain on my thumbs as if i had been shocked. My thumb made contact with the metal on the top of the handle and it shocked me. I was really sort of dumbfounded by this one. The noise it made was slightly reminiscent of a Tazer. Maybe it had to do with all the sand on my hands, or maybe the ring I was wearing?


Questions: How much experience do I need before I can start using the 2-wrap frame? Also, what are race-rods, because it seems a lot of sites sell them as an upgrade?

[stroke survivor]

No answer on the "shocking situation"! The left leg flip is probably due to over control issues!! You're trying to spin too fast and are giving the kite too much input!! Try turning slower, easier!! Also check that you've assembled everything the same, no tangles at the attachment legs, caps put on so bridle comes out in the same way from all points!! One little twist means a difference in the way a bridle lays!! If you're having trouble with straight line flying - check your lines, make sure they are all the same!! Again, if one is off, it'll throw you a curve not expected!!
2 wrap rods are for lighter winds, I recommend using them only after you are past the crashing unintentionally stage!! Amazingly tough, but not as strong as 3 wraps!! Race rods are a combo - weight of the 2 wrap, with the strength of the 3 wrap!! Very nice if you can get a set, but not a gotta have!! IMHO!!
Now the fun begins - Learning how to make it do what you want it to do, when you want to do it!!

[Baloo]

If you fly at Wildwood I am sure it is only a matter of time B4 you bump into a whole gang of Rev fliers, carving up the each like holigans.

Mentonng that, not seen Antman on here for a while, hope he is OK.

As SV said the wing flip is normally too much control, too much brake on that side, cusing the bottom to flip over.

As for the shock, I would imagine that you got some Static build up somehow, it has never happened to me however I am sure it could hapen.

And do save your 2 wraps for a while. As you get better you will find you can fly the 3 wraps in lower wind.

[JasonOsteo]

The wing 'inverting' is most likely a control issue. Try letting out your top lines a couple of knots on the pigtails. This will put more break on, make the kite feel more positive and calm down overcontrol.

The only idea for the 'shock' is that there is a small metal burr wherever your have your thumbs, maybe just under the rubber of the top cap, giving a sensation of a shock. Either that or you have nylon boxers on

One last thing, sometimes when setting up a wing flaps in the wind before getting the spars in. When this happens the cap sometimes spins around the elastic, shortening the bridle on that side slightly.

[hyzakite]

Shocking could be a nerve being pinched anywhere between the neck and wrist, but both thumbs makes it sound like the neck, Or the nylon boxers. This thread will be seen by the Jersey fliers so you won't need to post anywhere special. BTW very nice first Rev.

[REVflyer]

a coach will cut years of frustration off and save you a pile of dough besides!

Make the effort, drive the distance and make some new friends along the way too.

Try different techniques and adapt 'em to your own developing style.

Say "hi" to the jersey gang for me, you're in good hands.

[JasonOsteo]

Ok, thumb problem.

Had a sit and think after Pete mentioned the median nerve/carpal tunnel and hand grip in another thread.

First, anatomy lesson I'm afraid. The nerves which supply the thumb do indeed come from the median nerve, as does the nerve which supplies the 'thenar emminence' (the bulky bit of muscle in the palm of your hand at the base of the thumb). The median nerve passes through the carpal tunnel ('inside' of your wrist, where the creases are) and splits into the digital nerves (supply thumb and first 2.5 fingers) and the recurrant branch of the median nerve (to the thenar muscles).

Now consider how you are holding the handles. If you have a 'death grip' on them, you could be compressing the thumbs digital nerve against the handle and also impinging the recurrant nerve between two of the thenar muscles. This may cause the shock like symptoms you are describing.

Try to hold the handles with your fingers rather than your whole hand, and upright or with the bottoms angled out with your wrists in 'neutral' in terms of forward or back bending. This will take the pressure away from the thenar eminence as you will not have the handle being pressed in there. Your main movement of the handles will be by pulling in with your fingers, so taking stress of the wrist and thenar muscles.

Revs respond well to a light touch and you will feel more by gripping with fingers (more joint proprioceptors being used).

Next weeks lesson will be on the neurological plasticity of the shoulder girdle fascia and the beneficial effects of rev flying

[xC4RB0NxR3104Dx]

Ok, thumb problem.

Had a sit and think after Pete mentioned the median nerve/carpal tunnel and hand grip in another thread.

First, anatomy lesson I'm afraid. The nerves which supply the thumb do indeed come from the median nerve, as does the nerve which supplies the 'thenar emminence' (the bulky bit of muscle in the palm of your hand at the base of the thumb). The median nerve passes through the carpal tunnel ('inside' of your wrist, where the creases are) and splits into the digital nerves (supply thumb and first 2.5 fingers) and the recurrant branch of the median nerve (to the thenar muscles).

Now consider how you are holding the handles. If you have a 'death grip' on them, you could be compressing the thumbs digital nerve against the handle and also impinging the recurrant nerve between two of the thenar muscles. This may cause the shock like symptoms you are describing.

Try to hold the handles with your fingers rather than your whole hand, and upright or with the bottoms angled out with your wrists in 'neutral' in terms of forward or back bending. This will take the pressure away from the thenar eminence as you will not have the handle being pressed in there. Your main movement of the handles will be by pulling in with your fingers, so taking stress of the wrist and thenar muscles.

Revs respond well to a light touch and you will feel more by gripping with fingers (more joint proprioceptors being used).

Next weeks lesson will be on the neurological plasticity of the shoulder girdle fascia and the beneficial effects of rev flying

Actually I figured it out, I should have realized, but as we started to leave there was a thunderstorm, so the air was statically charged. But I like your explanation better xD (also should have mentioned that the shock was a similar experience to static shock, I actually kept touching it because of the cool sound .... don't judge me)

Edited by xC4RB0NxR3104Dx, 14 June 2011 - 12:18 PM.

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

If you have a 'death grip' on them, you could be compressing the thumbs digital nerve against the handle and also impinging the recurrant nerve between two of the thenar muscles. This may cause the shock like symptoms you are describing.

Try to hold the handles with your fingers rather than your whole hand, and upright or with the bottoms angled out with your wrists in 'neutral' in terms of forward or back bending. <snip>

I favour the 'no grip' option, in light winds with the handles in the horizontal position, palms facing back, knuckles forward, arms straight down. I think that this is a neutral stance physically. Line pressure, such as it might be, holds the handles against the fingers and yes, it is possible to drop the handles...

Grip is the killer and in increased wind speeds it is important to avoid having to 'physically' apply the brakes by (wrist) rotating the handles for any length of time. Ideally, even in the strongest breeze the kite should be almost neutral requiring flier input to fly forwards. This may be apparent if a team flying together find that they are backing up even in the strongest breezes.

I do not know about the exact physiology but understand that it is crucial to avoid a stressed stance and to fully extend/relax muscles within a cycle of activity. Being able to fully extend movements (flail?) may be very helpful in high wind conditions even if the concept may be counter intuitive to some fliers. <grins>

Felix

[JasonOsteo]

yep. Not many muscles in the body are 'designed' to be permanently 'on'. Postural muscles can, to a certain degree, have tone for very long periods as the fibres continually swap the load around each other and so get a rest.

Non postural muscles can't hack it. Continuous tone increases oxygen demand, reduces circulation and increases the build up of waste in the tissues. Just hold your arm out straight for a few minutes and you have a handy demonstration.

Movement is key, the muscle contraction and relaxation 'pumps' the blood back with all the waste and brings in fresh nutrients and energy. Rev flying is great for those with postural strain as you move continually without having a heavy load to deal with, such as a large dual line or power kite.

[Felix Mottram]

yep. Not many muscles in the body are 'designed' to be permanently 'on'. Postural muscles can, to a certain degree, have tone for very long periods as the fibres continually swap the load around each other and so get a rest.

Non postural muscles can't hack it. Continuous tone increases oxygen demand, reduces circulation and increases the build up of waste in the tissues. Just hold your arm out straight for a few minutes and you have a handy demonstration.

Movement is key, the muscle contraction and relaxation 'pumps' the blood back with all the waste and brings in fresh nutrients and energy. Rev flying is great for those with postural strain as you move continually without having a heavy load to deal with, such as a large dual line or power kite.

Hmmm! I think that we may be in complete agreement here. I'm interested in avoiding the heavy load and maintaining movement rather than consideration of 'static discharges' which have rather more immediate and serious connotations in kite flying.

I have been working on the 'long arm' notion for some time now, particularly how it might apply to higher wind speeds. I was aware of some of the physiological aspects of fatigue but had not figured out how best to find a resting position, if one existed. I'm now thinking that the median might be the effective 'resting' position and that effort either side will create the balance in respect of the contraction/relaxation process. Moving quickly from one extreme to the other seems to me to assist in this process.

Felix

[--Pete]

Nice to have a serious explanation. The best I could come up with is, "Don't put your hands (or any other part of your body) in an uncomfortable position and try to keep it there."

In the seventh grade I used to have a "geek trick" where I could hold a 10# weight stiff-armed out to the side for four minutes. No one else in my class could make two. It was a sort of trick, though. I raised the weight slightly above level and eased it down into place. This seemed to lock the shoulder joint and muscles into place, and let me hold out longer. And, as I said, "geek;" it may well have been that many others COULD have done it, but didn't choose to cause themselves a certain amount of pain. I don't recall that I was unusually strong in other ways. I don't think I could do anything close these days.

[Elix]

Actually I figured it out, I should have realized, but as we started to leave there was a thunderstorm, so the air was statically charged. But I like your explanation better xD (also should have mentioned that the shock was a similar experience to static shock, I actually kept touching it because of the cool sound .... don't judge me)

Hi Carbon Reload (decoded for fun)

I'm a newbie around here, so maybe others can back me up: kite flying near a thunderstorm sounds a little risky. Glad nature didn't go all Ben Franklin on you!


Congrats on the new Rev! Good luck with her.