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Advice for a newcomer please


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#1 belgarum

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:15 PM

Hi y'all

A new forum member here and probably (odds on certainty!) a future Rev owner.

Excellent forum with loads of useful advice and comments by the way.

Been flying dual-line stunters for 30 years or more started with an early Peter Powell (plastic sail and ally spars) and love the old-school kites.

I went to Basingstoke Kite Festival at the weekend to get some ideas for the next stunter but was blown away by the Rev demo by Flying Squad and a later demo by Chris Goff (who was previously seen through my binoculars to be practising to other demonstrators' music and he seemed to be carrying out some weird form of martial arts moves with his hands to control the Rev!!)

Bottom line was that I got home and immediately did some serious Googling and have decided to get a Series B 1.5 (standard sail).

The forum has helped me answer a lot of the questions that have arisen over the last couple of days, but some advice is still required please.

As a long-term dual-liner, I am not going to kid myself that quad-lining is going to come naturally and I therefore expect to do some ungraceful and unintentional landing (aka, crashes!)

Obviously, I will start with light winds and both the 2 & 3 wraps in the LE. My question is, nothwithstanding the stiffness of the 2+3 wrap configuration, how strong will it be to take any heavy landings? I am guessing that is can only be as strong and the weakest link and I could see some breakages on the 2 wraps?

Is it worth getting a 4 wrap? Or is there someone out there who has a Super Leading Edge that they are willing to sell on?

Thanks in anticipation.

JP
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#2 REVflyer

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:26 PM

Grip light enough?, relax and don't squeeze the handles.

Practice slowing the kite down by pushing your thumbs (on the handles naturally) at the kite, then when it dives wildly towards the ground with the leading edge pointed down, you'll KNOW to push the speed reduction device and land more gently. We all crash, it's just how hard that matters. Every new trick or techniques comes with mother earth impacts!

Get a coach, drive miles to exploit 'em, it's all worth it!

lines even?
handles align?
Step forward to delete energy, step back to add it (just like dualie), use your feet, it's okay!

I wouldn't insert both leading edges unless it's howling out. You want to practice in a nice smooth 6 to 10 miles per hour breeze. You want to develop a feel, not thinking about objectives and how to accomplish them. Muscle memory,.... slow and careful movements. Push your thumbs forward to stop the kite,.. too much flips a wing inside-out.

Delicate actions in the beginning.

#3 JasonOsteo

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:55 PM

As above, with the addition of:-

before flying, take hold of the handles (without lines attached) close your eyes and visualise the kite upside down and diving rapidly to the ground. Now push both thumbs FORWARD quickly and visualise the kite stopping dead before hitting the ground. Repeat at least five times, without distraction.

The reason for this is, in my experience, first time four line flyers instinctively pull the hands up and straighten their arms in an effort to 'lift' the kite away from the ground. This pulls the thumbs back so accelerating the kite into the ground. The visualisation exercise may help minimise this.

The three wraps on their own will be fine unless it's blowing 12-15+ mph, when the kite will become 'twitchy' and want to accelerate very quickly. I had a two hour session with a friend and his son in some quite gusty wind the other week. The kite took quite a battering but was fine. The only casualty was a rubber grommet holding the top cap of a down spar. Easily replaced by a tap washer.

A four wrap frame would lead you to fly in higher winds than normal and so stretch the sail pretty quickly. Wouldn't advise it.

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#4 awindofchange

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 01:16 PM

I agree, go out with the standard 3 wrap and medium winds and you will be fine. I wouldn't worry about doubling up the leading edge unless the winds are very strong. These rods are exceptionally strong for what they are and in winds under 10 mph, you would have to hit something very solid such as concrete or fence pole to do any damage to the kite. It just won't have that much inertia in the lighter winds to worry about.

#5 xC4RB0NxR3104Dx

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 02:34 PM

try using the guide here: http://www.gwtwforum...pdf/revbook.pdf

It has some good info that I sure I'll use when I make it onto the field
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#6 Tim

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:02 PM

Lots of good stuff in this thread -- I like Jason's advice about visualizing the process of giving the kite brake when it's headed towards the ground. My worst crashes starting out all happened when I was headed down and reflexively rammed the kite into the ground rather than braking properly. I never broke anything, though.

I'll offer one piece of contrary advice as a fellow beginner: if it makes you feel more confident to have both leading edges in, go ahead and do it. As long as you've got enough wind to fly with the extra weight, having two LE's in there isn't going to hamper the kite's performance noticeably, and it will slow it down a bit. Then when you've got your bearings, or if the wind is too light, it takes 30 seconds to pull the extra LE out.

#7 goestoeleven

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:02 PM

Welcome to the dark side. I think you'll like it . . . careful though, it's a bit of an addiction. Hard to stop at just one rev . . .

I like Jason's visualization technique. Wish I had learned that about 9 months ago when I started flying revs.

One more bit of muscle memory to unlearn . . . . DON'T pull on the handles - at least for the first few sessions. As already said above, thumbs only, delicate motions. Much less hand motion than dual line - at least at first. As a (not very good) dualie flyer going to (newbie) quad, the hardest thing for me was to unlearn the dual line turn . . . you do NOT pull on the handle to turn a rev (at least not until later). If your kite is flying towards the ground, your dual line instinct will be to pull on one handle to get it turned back up, and this will just put your new rev into the ground even faster. Both hands need to be out in front of you at first, close together . . . and resist that instinct to pull one handle at a time. You could almost tie your hands together the first few times you fly so that you can't possibly use your dual line muscle memory.

Most likely way to break a spar - step on it. I'd suggest flying on a grass field at first, and it probably won't matter how hard you crash the kite. You're far more likely to rough up the ends of the leading edge fabric sliding the kite on the ground (because you're still using your dual line habits / pulling on the handles, which induces a slide in the rev).

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#8 --Pete

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:05 PM

The main piece of advice I would give to a 2-line flyer for the first few times on a 4-liner: Keep Your Wrists Together! As a 2-line flyer, you will want to put differential into your HANDS to make turns. Resist this! As you get used to making turns by tilting the handles in opposite directions, then you can begin to move your hands independently, but for the first few minutes lock those wrists together. (Alternatively, you can lock your elbows to your sides; just so you keep your hands at the same distance until you are ready to make the kite go sideways.) There are NO PUNCH TURNS with a Rev. (A "punch" does something else to the kite entirely.)

As a 2-line flyer, you already know that steerable kits do NOT turn Right and Left, but Clockwise and CounterClockwise. Additionally, with a Rev, you will also learn that the kite does not go UP and Down, but Forwards and Backwards. (Or Power and Brake to some folks.)
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#9 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:25 PM

Hello there!

The B-Series 1.5 is a great choice!
I personally wouldn't fly a 4 wrap frame with my full-sail 1.5 B, when the wind picks up that much I tend to reach for my vented 1.5 rather than a stronger frame. I wouldn't buy the 4 wrap frame just to have it, stacking the 2 and 3 wrap frames should suffice. As a new Rev flier, be careful with flying the 2 wrap frame, naturally, until you are comfortable with landing the kite upright in all sorts of wind conditions. Reason being, I landed upright too hard a few times and found my vertical spars were cracking near the sail tips. Practice landing inverted early on. If you land inverted, the leading edge is very strong, even on a 2 wrap frame, so long as you don't put it down on a rock or something. After landing inverted, if you walk forward far enough your Rev will lay down on its back in a position that is even more impossible to launch from than being inverted - perfect when its time to pack up and go home.

If you've never had to deal with quad line management before, take some time to read up on some of the topics posted regarding it. Pick one of the styles, and use it religiously! Seriously, all the styles of line management work, just follow through and handle your lines the same way everytime you fly. Make it a habit. Setup and take-down go so much faster and smoother.

Get used to MORE brake. Since you are getting a B-Series, your handles will have adjustable pigtail leaders that help you dial in more brake. Use them! When you first start flying the Rev, you might want to leave the adjustment neutral (no excess brake or acceleration), till your comfortable keeping the Rev in the air. Once you are though, take yourself out of that comfort zone for maybe a half-hour every time you fly, and dial in extra brake on your handles. Keep progressively adding more brake as your skill increases!

Read through this forum! Sooo much good info.....

Hope it helps :)

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#10 belgarum

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

Thanks to all for your warm welcome, advice and suggestions.

Based of what you've said (and those helpful chaps at Kiteworld) I'll stick, to start with, with a standard 1.5 B - and then I believe the norm is to get a full vent after a short time and buy others at regular intervals!

I'll be placing my order in the next day or so but understand that I may have to wait a couple of weeks to get the Rev/colour of my choice - Oh well, plenty of time to continue reading the info on this forum, and read the revbook!

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,

JP
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Rev 1.5B Full Sail (Black & Gold)
Rev 1.5B Mid Vent "Night"
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#11 tommylurvebus

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:12 PM

Hey mate, thought I would join in with our American cousins in reply. The transition from 2 lines 2 4 is lets say a little bumpy. I flew my first Rev quite literally into the ground. Crash after crash after crash. I cant begin to explain how worth it it is. My first Rev is still going strong after hundreds of hours of abuse. B series Rules. 3wrap deals fine with most of our southern UK conditions and can take the knocks. with so much flying experience you know the wind so its just handles and tilt you got to grasp. Oh you are going t want to push pullPosted Image When ya stop ploughing the earth start selling some of those dualies and get a Bazzer pro, they are plush! Kiteworld are cool and in my experience Rev will always look after you. Good luck and all the best.
tommy harrison

#12 katrina

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 09:36 AM

1.5 B is a great first kite. But if you have much wind, plan on getting a vented sooner rather than later! Learn from my mistake: I had a B standard that I flew in WAY too much wind, before I got a vented. I flew in enough wind that I was kind of skiing down the beach at times. And now that sail is stretched out. (duh, could I not have foreseen that??) It buzzes angrily at me. Actually at my daughter, who has now inherited it.

As for rod strength, don't worry about it too much. They are surprisingly resilient. If you slam into a solid object like a rock, yes they will break. If you slam the tips hard at an angle, perhaps. Way too much wind can cause the verts to pop. But you can slam it really very hard into the ground straight on, that isn't what causes breakage. 2s are more fragile than 3s, yes. But on the other hand, if you like this rev thing at all, you'll soon be trading up to race rods instead of 2 wraps. So, fly the heck out of the 2s, and if one breaks, get race rods. After that you won't need the 2s. When you get a vented, it will come with 4 wraps. You can fly race, 3s or 4s in the vented.


Just pretend all my statements are prefaced with IIRC, AFAIK, IMHO, and end with "Just my $.02," okay?
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