27 replies to this topic

[Joe B]

I will likely be ordering a Zen in the near future but I'm debating what frame to purchase with it. In addition to the Zen frame itself, I've heard talk of using a Race Rod frame or hybrid frames of assorted variations. If you have a Zen, could you please chime in on what frame you're using and why you have said preference? What pros or cons are associated with your frame choice, etc?

[REVflyer]

I'm using the stock ZEN frame.
I like the extra flex and am even using it another one of my 1point5 sized SUL kites as well. My Zen is slightly off of the approved standard though, not recommended by the BENmeister or Bazzer, (but suits my purposes exactly~ thank you very much gentlemen!) Mine is an SUL leading edge with extra reinforcing patches placed at the sail's folds and the exact center,.. more like a street kitin' machine, built tough, but illegally light in weight too. You can always add mass if you want it!

I figure it might get strung-up with some new lighting systems I had developed (which are being unveiled at Wildwood this weekend!)

[Watty]

For the Zen, I find that the zen rods, and even the race rods are too flexible. I believe the Zen with designed and built using a race rod frame with a 2 wrap center. The 2 wrap center helps to reduce some of that flex presented by the race rods.

[AldenMiler]

I figure it might get strung-up with some new lighting systems I had developed (which are being unveiled at Wildwood this weekend!)

I still don't understand how you think that kite is going to fly with a 12 volt deep cycle marine battery attached!

-Alden

[Felix Mottram]

I still don't understand how you think that kite is going to fly with a 12 volt deep cycle marine battery attached!

-Alden

I'm going with the Xen option rather than the VMware one according to my advisor on the basis of expense... <grins>

The recently posted frame weights make for interesting reading but probably do not relate to a marine battery.

Felix

[REVflyer]

white LEDs (82 inches worth), 3 lights for every two inches plus two micro-mini 9 (maybe 12~ can't remember) volt batteries. They last three hours but are very bright until then. There are also mercury switches to flick 'em off and on in motion,.... with 3 Red LEDs at the corners of the downspars/along the bottom. The rigs are mounted by punching tiny holes in the leading edge sleeve and affixed with zip-ties. Initially I was concerned about allowing sand into the leading edge, but after the first couple of holes I notice all the grit in there already, so the heck with that concern.

This whole rig has a weight equalivent of about a standard rectangularly shaped 12 volt battery! I could fly it (on short lines!) in no wind, so Wildwood's conditions should be more than sufficient. With any luck I can convince the Rev Riders to mount up and ride into the darkness with me. I commissioned four sets but the misses is raggin' on me about the expenditure, so I would like to unload two of 'em and keep her happy!

Marine battery and wire for line-sets, that would be interesting Alden!

[Joe B]

BTW... which is lighter between the Zen frame, an all-Race Rod frame and a hybrid 2-wrap center/Race Rod frame?

[kwmf]

My Zen with stock frame is 249 grams and with a Race frame it's 231 grams - absolutely non-existant difference when compared to low wind ability of the pilot.

With that little difference it's more about how the rods flex and your preference than saving weight.

[quaa714]

white LEDs (82 inches worth), 3 lights for every two inches plus two micro-mini 9 (maybe 12~ can't remember) volt batteries. They last three hours but are very bright until then. There are also mercury switches to flick 'em off and on in motion,.... with 3 Red LEDs at the corners of the downspars/along the bottom. The rigs are mounted by punching tiny holes in the leading edge sleeve and affixed with zip-ties. Initially I was concerned about allowing sand into the leading edge, but after the first couple of holes I notice all the grit in there already, so the heck with that concern.

This whole rig has a weight equalivent of about a standard rectangularly shaped 12 volt battery! I could fly it (on short lines!) in no wind, so Wildwood's conditions should be more than sufficient. With any luck I can convince the Rev Riders to mount up and ride into the darkness with me. I commissioned four sets but the misses is raggin' on me about the expenditure, so I would like to unload two of 'em and keep her happy!

Marine battery and wire for line-sets, that would be interesting Alden!

I'm in!!!!!!!!!!!

[REVflyer]

Hi Rich, pick the winged weapon you'd want to mount a set on.

We'll give 'em a spankin' and see if they can survive our flailing styles! If not, we'll make some more modifications until it does what we expect (survive or even thrive!) Dugard is an electrically minded computer/phone-system geek by profession and has all the proper tools committed to his travel bag. Can't you just see 'em winkin' off & on as we execute perfectly timed "falling leaves" to end our demo?

Ideally, I'd like to see the LEDs fire in sequence (like runway landing lights at the airport), starting at the 2 wing tips and meeting at the center. Even a winking mechanism is adding more weight though, that may mean shorting the overall lengths of the strands. I wouldn't know if a sequential firing device is even applicable to the product. Right now they are "on" unless the mercury switch triggers, we might prefer 'em on steadily only and let the flight of the kite represent all of the "visual action".

We might want to commission a set of all white kites for the team or even hang 'em on our Zens, but it will be fun experimenting. I believe you'll be impressed with our starting point for now though my friend!

[Joe B]

[Kitelife]

I use a race frame with 2 wrap center.

While they cup the wind really well for flat-footed fliers, the zen rods are too flexible for my active style... The leading edge curves, uncurves, curves, uncurves, etc.

The rae frame has more spring and stiffness, the 2 wrap center allows the leading edge to curve smoothly through the middle.

[Bazzer]

For me its two wrap centre, three wrap out and race verts.This was the original test configuration.
I don't like the way the Race rods over power so easily on the leading edge and give that runaway feeling.
But at the end of the day its all personal taste.
Bazzer

[SkyPuppet]

How long is the Zen's center spar? Or, how long is a Zen kite when it's broken down?

[stroke survivor]

Same size as a Rev1!! The rods will interchange between the 2!! Ends and verts are 36", center 3" longer, will roll up around 40"!! Got an old Rev1, so I measured!! Don't think any dimensions have changed too much!!!

[kwmf]

I just pulled out my Zen to check that (didn't seem right by my experience) and I can confirm that on my Zen and Race frame all spars are equal lenght and the 2-wrap center I have is the same as the full frames. Naturally the ferrules make the center spar a bit longer in total, but the spars themselves are all equal.

[SkyPuppet]

I use a race frame with 2 wrap center.

While they cup the wind really well for flat-footed fliers, the zen rods are too flexible for my active style... The leading edge curves, uncurves, curves, uncurves, etc.

The rae frame has more spring and stiffness, the 2 wrap center allows the leading edge to curve smoothly through the middle.

For me its two wrap centre, three wrap out and race verts.This was the original test configuration.
I don't like the way the Race rods over power so easily on the leading edge and give that runaway feeling.
But at the end of the day its all personal taste.
Bazzer

I wish there was some sort of flying style questionaire to help match the flyer to the right frame setup...
Question 43 could be, "Do you believe in magic?"

[RevWizard]

I just pulled out my Zen to check that (didn't seem right by my experience) and I can confirm that on my Zen and Race frame all spars are equal lenght and the 2-wrap center I have is the same as the full frames. Naturally the ferrules make the center spar a bit longer in total, but the spars themselves are all equal.

All rods on both the ZEN and REV I are the same length plus or minus about 1mm. That includes the center rod without ferrules. For transport purposes you can calculate in the length of the ferrules, however when the outer rods are connected to the center rod that extra length is nullified.
For the REV 1.5 series all 1/4 inch rods are the same length with the same considerations as mentioned above.

[Clin]

Thought I'd add some comments after we've had more time with the Zen in recent weeks due to the uncharacteristic light winds here. Still with the stock Zen frame. I'm really liking the low wind performance compared to the 1.5 Pro when we'd really struggle to get it up.

We are using #90 team lines on the Zen (read lazy ) so I think it does tend to tone down those nasty power ups during gusts. All in all, the Zen frame feels really good in our situation or if the wind is smooth but low.

I'd really need to try it on #50 lines to feel the difference.

[stroke survivor]

Recently at a local festival, I flew my SUL on 120'x50# lines and was a definite happy camper with the low winds that day!!! I have tried my Rev1 on 50#, but it had to be pretty windless to even try it!! But they are amazingly strong for being so light!! I almost asked the person, that had the Zen several of us were trying at the fest, if I could swap it to my 50# set to see if there was any real difference with line weights!! Kinda wished I had!!! If you do try it, give us some feedback, OK?