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#21 RevWizard

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:57 PM

Like I said: another precision word is lost forever. It's not the first, and it certainly won't be the last to lose its precise meaning.Posted Image

I guess you could call it an evolution of the English language.
Some languages are frozen in that they can not develop any further. If I recall correctly the Japanese language falls in that category.

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#22 Jeepster

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 03:03 PM

Like I said: another precision word is lost forever. It's not the first, and it certainly won't be the last to lose its precise meaning.Posted Image


But Pete, to be totally fair, you must also take exception to the use of "rod" to describe the rest of the framework. Rods have a solid cross section while our frame members are hollow. Tube is a more precise description.

Cheers,
Tom

#23 --Pete

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:43 PM

But Pete, to be totally fair, you must also take exception to the use of "rod" to describe the rest of the framework. Rods have a solid cross section while our frame members are hollow. Tube is a more precise description.

Cheers,
Tom


You may notice that I prefer the word 'spar', to describe the function, rather than the geometry.

(Just being silly. I really don't mind what people call things, as long as they all agree on a consistent vocabulary.)



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#24 --Pete

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:29 PM

I guess you could call it an evolution of the English language. Some languages are frozen in that they can not develop any further. If I recall correctly the Japanese language falls in that category.

I consider it a devolution, but I also realize that I am in a tiny minority. Who cares that 'decimate' really means 'execute every tenth man in a regiment as punishment for regimental failure'; everyone seems to think it just means "beat really badly". Who really cares that 'ferrule' means a metal band placed on the OUTSIDE of a rod or tube to strengthen it or to form a joint. It's based on the Latin word for an iron bracelet. Let it mean exactly the opposite: something placed on the INSIDE. Who cares? (Beside a few die-hards.) Posted Image

My daughter taught English-as-a-second-language and Japanese Linguistics in Japan for a while, after studying Linguistics under John Lawler at the University of Michigan for nearly 10 years. She found that native teachers of Japanese did not know how their own language had evolved over the past several thousand years and were teaching their students that "this is just how the language is" when there were actual reasons for things like irregular word forms. I would not say that Japanese was 'frozen', at least not in the long term. Apparently many teachers of Japanese in Japan may think so and teach it that way, but it turns out not to be the true situation.

I, myself, quit formal education after high-school, but spent the next fifty years reading several books per day. I suppose that it gave me an exaggerated respect for language that is hard to shake after all these years.
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#25 stroke survivor

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:36 PM

I am perplexed by the 'fact' that the basic 'Revolution' format has proved to be so adaptable to successful 'fine tuning' over a long period of time. How on earth were the initial design decisions made?

Felix


Have no idea how it ever flew at all!!! Posted Image

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#26 Lavarr

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:06 AM

I think that the new (well, new for me as a 1990-vintage Rev I owner) system of short rods or plugs for joining LE spars can't really be called ferrules. Ferrule has a distinct meaning in English of a metal band placed on the OUTSIDE to strengthen a rod, protect the end, or form a joint. What the name should be for these internal joiners is something I've never considered.


Indeed is not a ferrule. that was the origin of my confusion..

#27 awindofchange

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:11 AM

Instead of the controversial Internal/External Ferrule/dowel/rod or spar/rod/tube/shaft words, we could just revert back to my daughters description:

"The little black round thingy that sticks out of the end of the long round thing"

It works.......

#28 --Pete

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 12:37 PM

It may work, but the original poster is located in Italy and may not have a large English vocabulary, requiring a look-up or translation. The translation of "ferrule" naturally was 'a metal band on the outside...' which was not to be found on his modern Rev kite spar. This is why it is a worthwhile thing to preserve the precision of words.

I'd say that if Revolution is currently shipping spars with dowel joiners, it should say so in their literature, and that word should be used among the factory people and among the experts and aficionados who hang out in the RevKites Forum. Posted Image
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#29 awindofchange

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

Maybe in the real world a ferrule is on the outside, but in the kiting world and on the dark side, it goes inside. It's our dark sided way of sticking it to the man and not conforming to the natural lemming way! Independence I say! We will not conform! Besides, the normal world demands that all kites have cutsie bow-tie tails and are diamond in shape and they fly way up in the sky but you need a helper to throw it up in the air and the pilot needs to run really hard to get it up. Rev's....I dare say NO NO NO, they don't fly, they hover, they only have tails if we want them to and they are closer to double diamonds cut in half and usually the longest lines they are put on is 120' and that is only if they are playing nicely with other Rev's.

Kite flyers unite! Don't stand for mediocre lives and lets call a ferrule a ferrule, regardless of what the world demands!!!

I am Kent Kingston and I approve of this revolt in literature!







Dude, I need a helmet! :w00t:

We now return you to your regularly scheduled dose of kiting information.

#30 Jeepster

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 06:04 PM

... Dude, I need a helmet! :w00t: ...


Has the tin foil worn too thin??? You have to have it on your windows also!!!

Cheers mate,
Tom

#31 --Pete

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 07:33 PM

Has the tin foil worn too thin??? You have to have it on your windows also!!!

Cheers mate,
Tom


I keep saying we need more smileys on this forum:

Posted Image

Of course, I will keep defending the purity of the English language, although I understand that I am: Posted Image
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#32 Jim Foster

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:20 PM

When your order the black thingies that go inside the center leading edge tube to hold the outer tubes,

you order FERRULES.

'nuff said.
Fly together! Share the joy, Share the fun

#33 Baloo

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:29 PM

I keep saying we need more smileys on this forum:

Posted Image

Of course, I will keep defending the purity of the English language, although I understand that I am: Posted Image

Glad at least One of you chaps uses, understands, defends and supports the English language. :kid_devlish:

Must admit I find it difficult to understand on occasions. Especially the way those young folks talk. It must be my age!!

#34 Reef Runner

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 04:33 AM

Must admit I find it difficult to understand on occasions. Especially the way those young folks talk. It must be my age!!


Don't feel bad Baloo, some of us have a hard time understanding, also Posted Image

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#35 kwmf

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 06:33 AM

Not like Americanese can be classified as English anyway ;)
(same goes for you Brits too:P )

#36 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 07:36 AM

Don't feel bad Baloo, some of us have a hard time understanding, also Posted Image


Must be a generational thing, the inability to understand what's being said!!Posted Image Now where's my headphones so I can tune out??Posted Image

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#37 Felix Mottram

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:46 AM

Have no idea how it ever flew at all!!! Posted Image


Joe's description in the Bristol 2008 video is instructive, I think! <grins>

The kite flew but it also 'stopped'.

Felix

EDIT Sorry about the thread drift, of course....




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