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#1 Mike Loskov

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:28 AM

I just looking for information about team vocabulary. May be it's already done somewhere but i can't found it. In Rev team manual there is not much information about this particular topic.
Not only basics like speed, direction or spins but also more complicated things like kites in vertical column left/right and you need to spin 2&3 kite to make 1&2 left and 3&4 right.

#2 Madquad

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:43 AM

Very good you started this topic Mike.

It is well known most of the teams use English calls (and for those who don't......start with it !!...Posted Image)
It makes things much easier ! thinking of Megateams or mixed team-flying.
So maybe one of the experienced teamcallers can make a nice list to use.

Would be great !!!!

Especially because i am now the caller in our new team...so i can use some extra info on that too (although i guess i know most of them....)

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#3 Watty

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:50 AM

I just looking for information about team vocabulary. May be it's already done somewhere but i can't found it. In Rev team manual there is not much information about this particular topic.
Not only basics like speed, direction or spins but also more complicated things like kites in vertical column left/right and you need to spin 2&3 kite to make 1&2 left and 3&4 right.


This thread here has some flash animations for some common team maneuvers.

Or check out the full list of animations at http://www.revkites....main/Animations

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#4 windpoacher

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:50 AM

Great topic!!!!!!!
I too would like to read and learn about this !!!!!!!
working up to flying with someone's team in the future!!!!!!

Knowledge is power!!!!!Posted Image
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#5 Mike Loskov

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:00 PM

This thread here has some flash animations for some common team maneuvers.

Or check out the full list of animations at http://www.revkites....main/Animations


team maneuvers are valuable information but when you want to do something more on the filed without landing your kites it's helpful to have some basic things. as i mention for me most problem now is call spins if they are in opposite directions (too many words in call)

#6 Madquad

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:22 PM

Something like Unwrap and face right ? Posted Image

It's not the size of your Rev.. its how you use it.
Seven days without flying a Rev makes one weak.


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#7 Simon

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:47 PM

Something like Unwrap and face right ? Posted Image




Hi Marc,





How about 50% facing left - Go. = Horizontal line facing left.




Everyone face up - Go. = now a line at 50% facing up (from position above..




90 clock radar - Go. This rotates the line clock wise to all facing right, in vertical line. (around the middle - between kites 2 & 3)

Odds face left - Go. 1 & 3 now do a 180 to face left.

Thread - Go all kites fly towards their leading edges to the edge of the window.

Stop, 180 (up) - Go. Repeat thread.




The best advice is to stick practice & do it slow as you would with a kite, do it "real"




Good Luck with Calling.


The Flying Squad

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#8 Watty

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:52 PM

team maneuvers are valuable information but when you want to do something more on the filed without landing your kites it's helpful to have some basic things. as i mention for me most problem now is call spins if they are in opposite directions (too many words in call)


Anything that is not shown through the list of maneuvers would be described by the leader as concisely and clearly as possible. Remember that when flying revs, it is very easy to stop and explain. Often times, when doing something not listed in the basic maneuvers, the leader with use flyer numbers to identify who does what. The leader is number one, the next person is number two etc. Calls can be made specifying evens and odds, or number one and two do this, numbers three and four do this. Now, this really only happens with pug groups. When a team has been flying together for a little while, even if it's just been a few hours, they can make the calls more simple. They can come up with nicknames for basic moves, or if you want the top two to go left and the bottom two to go right you could say "2 left, 2 right, go."

There are some other things that are implied. For example, with the call "180," in America at least, it is implied that you will do a down-turn 180, unless other ways specified. If someone isn't aware of this implication, it is very obvious, and easily corrected with a simple hint from the team leader.

For things like speed control, there is no explicit description. Everyone is just trying to match each other. In most cases, everyone is trying to match the speed of the leader. On the best teams, you will see that the flyers are not just looking at their kites. They are looking at the big picture to make sure they are fitting in the right spot.

Does that answer you query a little more?

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#9 andelscott

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 01:02 AM

There are some other things that are implied. For example, with the call "180," in America at least, it is implied that you will do a down-turn 180, unless other ways specified. If someone isn't aware of this implication, it is very obvious, and easily corrected with a simple hint from the team leader.


You've hit the nail on the head here. I tend to assume 180 as 180 up. Maybe that's just me. So a fully qualified call - in a Megateam or mixed team environment - i.e. "180 up" or "180 down" would be safest - assume nothing! Only problem comes in the leader's benefits, when not everyone ends up turning the same way half way through.

I am a fan of TFS and others calling for pass-throughs as "English" or "French" - depending on direction of the rotation. Unfortunately this analogy doesn't work so well in the USA where roundabouts are relatively uncommon on the roads.... And just because the call is good doesn't mean I'll fly it right. Another favorite call is "No, the other left" to correct a routine.... :lol:
Andy

#10 --Pete

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:19 AM

I would get "no, the other left" quite a bit. Posted Image

And I would REALLY like to see two single-syllable words that mean clockwise and anti- or counter-clockwise. "CLOCK!" is good for the one; now what is a good word for the opposite?

If anyone puts together a list; it might be in a format like this:

CLOCK: (command) turn clockwise. (modifier) Perform preceding command in a clockwise direction.

I would be willing to help with editing/formatting such a vocabulary file for team and mega-team commands. Having a list like this formatted by one or just a few people really helps to make it translatable and teachable. No one has to start from ground-zero for every single word in the list.

Frankly, the Rev sport needs such a glossary/vocabulary list for the normal evolutions/maneuvers done by single flyers, as well. I asked about this a while back, and never got much response, so I don't think it exists as yet.

Communication devolves when everyone uses a different word for a single thing, and especially when they use the same word to describe different things.
--Pete
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#11 Watty

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:56 AM

I would get "no, the other left" quite a bit. Posted Image

And I would REALLY like to see two single-syllable words that mean clockwise and anti- or counter-clockwise. "CLOCK!" is good for the one; now what is a good word for the opposite?

If anyone puts together a list; it might be in a format like this:

CLOCK: (command) turn clockwise. (modifier) Perform preceding command in a clockwise direction.

I would be willing to help with editing/formatting such a vocabulary file for team and mega-team commands. Having a list like this formatted by one or just a few people really helps to make it translatable and teachable. No one has to start from ground-zero for every single word in the list.

Frankly, the Rev sport needs such a glossary/vocabulary list for the normal evolutions/maneuvers done by single flyers, as well. I asked about this a while back, and never got much response, so I don't think it exists as yet.

Communication devolves when everyone uses a different word for a single thing, and especially when they use the same word to describe different things.


The problem here is that in many pug groups, people in the group are flying in a team for the first time. I Wouldn't want to expect a new flyer to be up to date with the current lingo, so I would want to stick with descriptions.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#12 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:31 AM

While single syllable commands seem at first thought to be a good idea, I would actually offer that the likelyhood of misunderstanding would go way up. For example, the first time I flew with Terry Wiggle (from Island Quad) I kept thinking that he was repremanding somebody or telling us to wait on the next the move because the Canadian pronounciation of "now" sounded to my american ear as "no". (FYI incase any of you fly with me calling in the future, I use "go".)

I doubt we will ever have a completely accepted universal lingo to fly revs with, but perhaps we can endeavor to set down the most commonly used words, and encourage those. The flyers who travel the most would be in the best position to guide this process, and of course the internet allows us to bounce words off each other.
Scott A Koenig
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#13 Stephen Hoath

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 03:39 PM

There's lot that can be added to this conversation but for now i will just add two things.

For groups of newer fliers it is helpfull to be descriptive and clear. People soon learn the calls and you are able to abbreviate soon enough. Taking a few extra seconds for the call is not so critical as when flying dual line kites.

Secondly, give a good pause between the preparatory command and then final execution command. eg. individual, 180 clockwise.........(pause).......GO! (two reasons, it takes a while for some fliers to hear the command and understand it then apply it and finally it helps to give the fliers a chance to say "say what?" before you launch into a full move)

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#14 terry w

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:12 PM

Interesting topic to be sure .... :) :)
I am what you call a free form leader , as a team ISLAND QUAD does not have any choreographed routines as of yet . We do have names for certain combinations of moves we have developed that expedite things ( most teams do this , I believe )
When I am calling for our team my rhythm and vocal command style is much different than when I am calling for inexperienced team flyers.
In most inexperienced team stuff I am always trying to keep the flyers moving, I do not call for much sustain hovering ... it is just to difficult for newbies.
I believe the most valuable moves to get a handle on are 180's , tip pivots up/down without losing altitude and hovering in all positions .
I do try and use terminology from the rev team manual as much as possible , seems like most are familiar with the terms. For our team we have names for moves that would make no sense to anyone but us.
I do remind my team mates as often as I can ..... NOT to go on autopilot . I love changing things up so anticipating what is coming next is risky. The picture i have in my mind is constantly changing . For other leaders this may not be the case.
I enjoy flying with other leaders and laughing as we decipher by trial and error exactly what their terminology and vision is. Its why this is so much fun.
Cheers
Terry
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#15 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:47 AM

give a good pause between the preparatory command and then final execution command. eg. individual, 180 clockwise.........(pause).......GO! (two reasons, it takes a while for some fliers to hear the command and understand it then apply it and finally it helps to give the fliers a chance to say "say what?" before you launch into a full move)



this is exactly how a good stage manager for theatre calls tech (sound, lights, scene shifts, pyro) cues. In addition to the reasons already listed, the anticipation of the "go" or "now" call created by that pause before it helps everybody react in unison and without delay. It is also easier to call at a precise moment in the music if the caller leaves him or her self that moment to prep.
Scott A Koenig
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"We muster to fly at a moment's notice"

#16 Simon

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:05 PM

this is exactly how a good stage manager for theatre calls tech (sound, lights, scene shifts, pyro) cues. In addition to the reasons already listed, the anticipation of the "go" or "now" call created by that pause before it helps everybody react in unison and without delay. It is also easier to call at a precise moment in the music if the caller leaves him or her self that moment to prep.





Scott you have now opened a whole new can of worms for "the Good Captain" I cant find the pictures right now but all I'll say is Pirates of Penzance.




Also, in our team we have to remember that those from the southern hemisphere see the water go the other way round...





Oh and as for calling with music, we don't do that, we use the music as the key. Check out Mikes vid's from Berck 2011, theres no way you couldcall those routines in time for the moves to be made on the music (TFS Hindi Diamonds). It would sound like WRC note calling WRC Notes




Ohhhh Just found this....


Enjoy Folks !!

Evolver Carl & James Robertshaw.


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#17 Mike Loskov

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 09:07 PM

for now i can summaries calls and ideas i get from this topic

selection:
direct number (1 and 4 face up)
even/odd
50%
number of kites from top/left (2 up 2 down) or with pointing position (2 from ends/2 in the middle)

direction:
if "go" without command before (and it's not a figure) then kites moving forward until next command
reverse
slide left/right/up/down

spin:
face up/down/left/right - there can be also default direction of spin
180 up/down/ - still not clear 180 by default is up or down
clock/anti(contr)clock


execution:
go
now

#18 Kitelife

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 02:39 AM

Each team has their own set of lingo, with some consistencies throughout...

"180", ball, pinwheel, etc.

I think the sure answer to this topic is more video with both kites and calling in them.


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#19 kwmf

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 03:54 AM

Nice video for those of us who only get to fly solo ....

LMAO at 2:53 .... looking for that little bit extra there Mr B? B)

#20 Simon

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 01:29 PM

for now i can summaries calls and ideas i get from this topic

selection:
direct number (1 and 4 face up)
even/odd
50%
number of kites from top/left (2 up 2 down) or with pointing position (2 from ends/2 in the middle)

direction:
if "go" without command before (and it's not a figure) then kites moving forward until next command
reverse
slide left/right/up/down

spin:
face up/down/left/right - there can be also default direction of spin
180 up/down/ - still not clear 180 by default is up or down
clock/anti(contr)clock


execution:
go
now





Hi Mike,


One call still missing.




Fire Drill

- if it all goes wrong, and you need to stop - call a fire drill. This usually means that any flyer in the sky (air) flys up out of the way, so usually at the top of the window.





The Flying Squad

Posted Image





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