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Zero-Light Wind practice / curious Question?


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#1 windpoacher

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:01 PM

I had no wind to speak of, but really wanted to fly, so I grabbed my 50#-30' lines , the B-series, my dog (buddy), and headed to the park, ...I spent about 4 hour's their practicing, with wind 0-3 mph, mostly 0 mph.

All went well , with a bit, or more EFFORT !!! , than with wind, (as I am sure you all know)
I used alot more of the field than I normally do, and alot more different, muscles than I normally use!!!
It felt good to fly, even know their was no wind, (maybe even better, given that reason)
I did some 360's, catch and throw's and kept it OFF the ground for most of that 4 hour's !!....Posted Image
I see alot more of this practice, in my future!!!!!!!!!


My curious Question????
I have my own opinion, and now I am looking for your's!!!!!!!!!!


What type of flying do you think would compliment or better yet IMPROVE your skill's of the Other????

Would Zero/Light wind flying skills improve (or Help) your skill's with lets say 8-10mph???
Or visa/versa??
or do you think their is no comparison??

I am kinda tired ,I dont know if I worded the question right!!!??? but their it is anyway!!Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
......................................Thank 's..........All...................Posted Image
..........................W I N D P O A C H E R..........................
...........................thank god for wind..........................
............................thank him often..........................




#2 awindofchange

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:13 PM

As a good friend of mine says,

Strong wind builds muscle, Light wind builds skill.

#3 SkyPuppet

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:38 PM

I love kiting in winds like you were experiencing today! The challenge never gets old for me... So cool that you were able to move around the field without running into anyone. Hope my reply to your ending question isn't too convoluted.

I learned better in the faster winds (8-12 mph) right off the bat, as I spent a lot of time concentrating on my hand postitioning and movements, and not much on my footwork.
As my footwork improved, I didn't need as much wind to keep the kite aloft. Now my footwork is automatic, I don't even think about walking forward or back - I just do it.

Now that I have the feel for the hand and footwork, I feel that my practice in light winds helps my tricking best. I find it easier to figure out what's going on when things are happening slowly.

Cheers!

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#4 Kitelife

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 11:19 PM

In my experience, pound for pound, I'd say true "full-on" zero wind flying does more for the skills... When you're really giving 'er all you've got.

I mean that dynamic, power on / power off, full range of flight under only your own power... Not that floating around all day kind of stuff.

To me, it gives a deeper understanding of sail loading and being responsible for your own sail pressure, as opposed to still being partially reliant on some wind to work with.

End of the day though, for building "sport skill" (rather than recreational skill) it's all about spending time in every possible range of condition, from either extreme to middle of the road, to just plain ugly. :)

John Barresi

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#5 John F

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:22 AM

To me, it gives a deeper understanding of sail loading and being responsible for your own sail pressure, as opposed to still being partially reliant on some wind to work with.



I agree with that. Also being close to the kite gives a better understanding of what is happening. What the pitch angle is and how the sail is reacting visually. Also I think you learn about putting the kite as the REV is more positional than a dual line. And catch and toss is fun. Plus the REV does better jazz on low wind short lines.

John

#6 stroke survivor

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 09:24 AM

I'm in the light wind camp too!! Learning to work the kite to take advantage of what wind there is, footwork, just being able to wait on the kite to fill! I'm not a true "no wind" guy, but light wind really is special to get the most out of your abilities!! Posted Image But don't get me wrong, it's still hard work!!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#7 windpoacher

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:43 PM

Thank You All ,for your input!!Posted Image
It is just what I wanted to hear!!

Update on my zero wind , practice.........

6 days later and 7 hours Invested, the area in which I use for foot work, has went from the whole soccer field,
( with tooo much running), to about a 30-40 foot area ,with only the occasional run!!

I feel their has been much improvement ,with foot work, sail loading ,and LINE TENSION skill's, BUT, still practice, practice, practice!!!............It seem's to be getting a little easy-er, with each session!!!!!!!

50#-30' lines, 2 wrap, std B-series,.........Anyone else , trying no wind with this set-up??
working on getting a shorter line set....and Race rods...

J.B.'s.... Indoor tutorials have helped alot!!!... thanks john
J.B. and Watty 's most recent video's are WAY Motivational!!!!!Posted Image

Any input or other suggestion's..!!??..........Please chime in!!!!!!!!!! Thank'sPosted Image
..........................W I N D P O A C H E R..........................
...........................thank god for wind..........................
............................thank him often..........................




#8 Kitelife

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 08:44 PM

There is no substitute for enthusiasm. :kid_smartass:

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#9 SkyPuppet

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:55 PM

50#-30' lines, 2 wrap, std B-series,.........Anyone else , trying no wind with this set-up??
working on getting a shorter line set....and Race rods...

J.B.'s.... Indoor tutorials have helped alot!!!... thanks john
J.B. and Watty 's most recent video's are WAY Motivational!!!!!Posted Image

Any input or other suggestion's..!!??..........Please chime in!!!!!!!!!! Thank'sPosted Image


That's exactly my low wind setup, although I also fly on 50# 75 ft lines too. Though I haven't been flying Rev's for too long.... I love the 2 wrap frame Posted Image No really, it's a love thing.... My Zephyr is feeling horribly lonely right now....

I seriously love this setup! I can't imagine how a Race frame will feel better than the 2 wrap in low/no wind flight, but I think I will get one once my Zen is ready for pickup. I need another frame for the vented anyways (pack the 3 wrap from my 1.5 B with the vented from now on).

I used my new 15" handles with the 30ft 50# lines for the first time today, and I noticed that with a slight change of where I grip the foam handle covers (downward), my kite felt more like it does with longer lines, just a whole lot faster. I didn't have any line snags around the handle bottom today with the 15" handles either. If you get the chance, you might want to try them out.

I'm glad to hear your noticing improvement! Posted Image I am too Posted Image

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

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#10 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:16 AM

It's all a matter of preference, but in my experience, the 15" handles are great for floating/gliding style flight, and flic flac / axel moves.

In my hands, they just cause the kite to over-sheet wind too easily...

I prefer the sail to be relatively flat toward me in light wind, to generate maximum pressure.

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#11 Beaufort

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 03:30 AM

50#-30' lines, 2 wrap, std B-series,.........Anyone else , trying no wind with this set-up??
working on getting a shorter line set....and Race rods...



Reg. race rods, I am pretty sure they will be of no help compared to two wraps in very light wind flying.

I have both sets myself, and the RR set is actually a little bit heavier than the 2 wraps (4-5 g in total). BUT the RR are stronger, so they give you a nice flexible configuration from low wind to medium winds ;-)

#12 SkyPuppet

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:54 AM

It's all a matter of preference, but in my experience, the 15" handles are great for floating/gliding style flight, and flic flac / axel moves.

In my hands, they just cause the kite to over-sheet wind too easily...

I prefer the sail to be relatively flat toward me in light wind, to generate maximum pressure.


Man, I've been flying kites for awhile.... I've never heard the term "over-sheet wind" before - would you mind giving me the definition?

I've been 3 sheets to the wind beforePosted Image but never over-sheeted.

I think Posted Image

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#13 stroke survivor

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:10 AM

Over sheeting is a sailing term for pulling the sail too tight and not getting the max from the sail! In kiting, you can exert too much pull on your kite's sail and lose efficiency! But many (including myself) like the longer handles in low wind conditions!! Revflyer goes so far as to use 17" handles (I think) at times!! As always, it's what you feel comfortable with and have confidence in!! Posted Image

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#14 Beaufort

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:16 AM

Reg. race rods, I am pretty sure they will be of no help compared to two wraps in very light wind flying.

I have both sets myself, and the RR set is actually a little bit heavier than the 2 wraps (4-5 g in total).......


Ooops make that 10 g.s heavier; I just had two complete sets on the scale. :innocent:

#15 SkyPuppet

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 11:49 AM

Ooops make that 10 g.s heavier; I just had to complete sets on the scale. Posted Image


Would you be able to weigh a couple 50# line sets against a 30# of equal length? Like at least 2 shorter sets? I'm wondering at what length do the benefits of 50# line start to not matter.

I'm not too concerned about the frame weight, though I do appreciate you doing the numbers! I tried the 4 wrap a few times in very light wind (2-5mph), and it didn't really "feel" heavy, though it felt sluggish to my inputs. And i noticed that not having flex in the frame was holding me back some from tricking more often, as the sail seemed more difficult to load up. Maybe because the kite was over-sheeting the wind because the stiff frame was keeping the sail too taught? I didn't seem to lose too much distance on my floats, but they felt really twitchy with the 4 wrap.

I'm sure the Race frame won't be difficult to fly in light wind, and will have faaarrrr more flex than the 4 or even 3 wrap, but I'm interested to do my own live comparison against the 2 wrap for sure!

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#16 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:57 PM

By over-sheeting, I mean where the leading edge pulls in toward you enough that the kite is releasing too much pressure.

Like this... / <---

/ = kite
<--- = wind

Too much angle, and the wind just spills out of the sail... Great for gliding/floating, horrible for fine control and drive.

Again, it's all a matter of preference - but ultimately, the 15" handles give me more torque (range of kite angle) than I need.

John Barresi

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#17 SkyPuppet

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 04:53 PM

Haha, genius use of the keyboard for the diagram there! I totally get it.

I think that is exactly why I wound up moving my hands down the foam grips towards the handle bottoms when using the 15" handles.

Flew today, 2 wrap frame, using 13" handles, didn't have 15" with me. Trying 50# 12ft lines for the first time. Wow, I could really feel the stretch in the line.... Not sure if I liked it. I want to try a 90# 12 ft set now. With no wind, I could pull the kite off the ground and completely over my head in one hard pull! I did enough 360's to actually feel a little sick lol. The kite was in so close, I could hear a "creaking" noise as I flew it around..... I imagine it was coming from the area around the bungies, as the fabric twists against the frame.
I see why some people remove the bridle when they fly on such short lines, I might try it next time. I could see the bridle is just the middle-man when up so close.

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#18 stroke survivor

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 09:15 AM

My light wind setup has been an SUL with 50'x50# lines and 15" handles!! Posted Image Making a 30' set for even tighter quarters, but also have a 50# set of 120's!! 50# seems pretty light, 30# sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen, with the possibility of tangles and all!! Posted Image

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#19 SkyPuppet

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:14 PM

My light wind setup has been an SUL with 50'x50# lines and 15" handles!! Posted Image Making a 30' set for even tighter quarters, but also have a 50# set of 120's!! 50# seems pretty light, 30# sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen, with the possibility of tangles and all!! Posted Image

I have to keep my 50# short - the poorly manicured soccer field I fly on has crazy strong dandelion stumps that shred my lines up pretty goodPosted ImageI would be interested to try 120'x50# someday. I'll have to wait till it's time to buy more bulk 50#.
I tried 30# with my Zephyr dualie kite. Once. Posted Image
I seriously put about 3" of creep on my right 50'x30# line in one good session. During this session, I went for a pancake, started from as high up as I could, nosed it over, and while it was coming down, I gave it both lines a sharp pull that instantly stretched the lines enough that when I threw my arms forward to put it into a fade, the lines just seemed to unstretch instead of going slack and I put my kite, nose first, into the turf. Hard.

Maybe it would work better with the Rev, but I think the 50# is as light as I will go.

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#20 stroke survivor

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 08:11 PM

50# sounds about right to me as a low end choice!! In anything else but a really bad blow, 90# should handle it!! Posted ImageIt's nice to have a variety of weights and lengths to match the conditions or the people you're flying with!! Posted Image

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