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#1 randude

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:29 PM

Hi Rev folk,
I have been reading this forum for months and figured I better just join and get involved. I am very new to Rev flying and, really, controllable kiting in general. I live just outside of Salt Lake City, Utah and had the opportunity to see I quad at the Antelope Island kite fest last August. Prior to that I had only flown single line kites with the kids. On the last day of the fest I purchased a 2 line kite on a whim and the addiction process started. I accumulated multiple 2 line kites for different wind conditions and flight characteristics. I was somewhat intimidated by 4 line kites but, again on a whim, decided to jump in deep by obtaining a full sail B for myself, based on all of your good recommendations, and a 2-4 powerblast for my son. Wow, what incredible kites these are. Now I just want to fly as much as possible. We have tricky wind around here, which has made it challenging. Also I have a wife who does not understand the kiting fascination, nor the cost required to experience it to it's fullest. Well, she recently just went out and bought a new car without clearing it with me, because her car had a dead mouse somewhere inside, which we could not find, and smelled like it. She did not like my recommendation to just wait until the mouse fully decayed. I felt that this action should give me several kite tickets, right? So, probably prematurely, I ordered to Zen to help me deal with all the low wind conditions we have locally. I hope that was a good decision. It does feel right. I was flying in 16-18 mph wind about a week ago and noticed that it was stressing my full sail b a bit. So, now I feel I also need a full vent at some point. Another great idea, right? Anyway, I wanted to thank you all for freely sharing your experiences and recommendations. This is such a cool forum and a unique community. People from across the globe sharing one passion. Also, thanks to I quad for coming to Utah. I have yet to meet another active Rev flyer in my area, but I suspect they are around.


I do have a question regarding line length. I currently have 2 sets of 90 lb 80 ft. and a 200 lb 100 ft for my son's powerblast, which he is kind of possessive with. Are the 120 ft. lengths just primarily for team flying or are there additional benefits and are the shorter lengths just to accommodate smaller fields or are there also additional flight benefits?


Cheers from the beehive state,


Randy

#2 REVflyer

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:07 AM

Randy,
120 foot line lengths are nice to open up the flying window's power zone, ... longer lines = bigger picture. They also slow the kite down, so you look better to the folks sure to be watching your precision! By adding drag, you can use 'em to increase the durability of your kites as winds increase. You could comfortably fly your full sail kites out on the edge, in higher wind than recommended if you're sportin' a set of longish lines. Stay out of the center of power!

120s prepare you for when we all get together and rip the sky in team or mega-fly activities, the sooner you get into that Rev line-up the faster you'll feel comfortable. We've all had our first time and it wasn't very pretty, but we keep coming back for more.

Shorties are fun for all the intense flailing stuff though, (aggressive tricks, 3-D) or for your low-wind practice efforts. What I have found over time is that my longer line sets get cut-down as they become more worn-out. They evolve into shorties and usually" loose the sleeving" in that process. I'd say to try a 1/3 & 2/3s re-chop with the old ones when it's time to buy new long lines.

Eventually you will have a whole bunch of different handle and line length arrangements to function under any conditions, indoors to porta-potties being blown over.

PS: My wife feeds lots of animals (squirrels + a variety of birds) , so now we have a darn Norway rat living under the shed and patio outback. Barbara's ready to move after seeing it on the deck, despite our supporting the extermination industry for months. I feel your rodent pain too brother!
I want to pump carbon monoxide into that little shelter and then send in a big constrictor snake to eat their young offspring. We've caught a couple of 'em so far and they are certainly livin' large at my house! Unfortunately I live in a townhouse, so no explosives can be deployed, (ultra-sonic techniques seems to be enjoyed rather than shunned, poison is a tasty alternative treat, backfilling their tunnels is like try to stop potholes in the snow belt!)

#3 tcope

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 05:28 AM

Hi Rev folk,
I have been reading this forum for months and figured I better just join and get involved. I am very new to Rev flying and, really, controllable kiting in general. I live just outside of Salt Lake City, Utah and had the opportunity to see I quad at the Antelope Island kite fest last August.

Randy, there is a kite club, the Utah Kite Fliers (www.utahkitefliers) mainly based on SLC and we get together for fun flies and different events. This weekend (4/30) we are heading up to Idaho Falls for the Kiting Just for Fun event (visit the website for more info). It's a great event and would be a good drive to break in the new car (at least that can be your story). Several of us are heading to the event and it attracts many fliers from ID and the surrounding states. There are several other events coming up, including a fly at Thanksgiving Point and a larger kite festival (first year) at Bear Lake on the ID side.

I think the problem you may be having is crappy wind. Nothing worse and we have a lot of it. My favorite place to fly is Eisenhower Jr High in Taylorsville off Redwood Rd. Good winds and the field is _huge_. We have most of our fun flies there. You really need good steady wind when practicing. It makes everything much more enjoyable. It's also good to fly around other fliers as it really increases the learning curve.

200 foot lines are fine but they are really used mainly in competition and team flying. For everyday flying they usually take up too much of the flying field. Most people fly on 75-90 foot lines and 100 are just fine. Again, I think what you really need is some non-gusty winds and you will probably find that the kites you have are just fine. We don't have too many 15mph wind days here (though lately it's been weird).

Feel free to stop by the club website and join the Yahoo Group for communication. The more the better!

Todd Copeland
Utah Kite Fliers

#4 Jynx

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:10 AM

Just a quick add-on...

When you can sneak-in a buy of a 1.5 (standard, mid or full-vent) you'll likely find it's much easier to maneuver than your Zen, especially in winds over 10 mph.

Welcome to the Dark-Side! ...a WINDerFULL obsession!

"When the power of love becomes more important than the love of power,

then there will be peace"

Jimi Hendrix

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#5 stroke survivor

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:08 PM

If you own the "B" full sail, have ordered a Zen, and am looking at getting a full vent "B", you would have pretty much any wind range covered!!! Posted Image You got 2 sets of 80' lines, you could cut 1 set into 30's and 50's, and add 120's if you're going to fly with others! The short sets work for small places and low winds, but there is no "You got to have them"! Leave the 200#x100' set alone!! That will work well for the 2-4!!



Good luck on your choices, you've just entered "The Darkside"!! Posted Image

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#6 randude

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:13 PM

Randy,
120 foot line lengths are nice to open up the flying window's power zone, ... longer lines = bigger picture. They also slow the kite down, so you look better to the folks sure to be watching your precision! By adding drag, you can use 'em to increase the durability of your kites as winds increase. You could comfortably fly your full sail kites out on the edge, in higher wind than recommended if you're sportin' a set of longish lines. Stay out of the center of power!

120s prepare you for when we all get together and rip the sky in team or mega-fly activities, the sooner you get into that Rev line-up the faster you'll feel comfortable. We've all had our first time and it wasn't very pretty, but we keep coming back for more.

Shorties are fun for all the intense flailing stuff though, (aggressive tricks, 3-D) or for your low-wind practice efforts. What I have found over time is that my longer line sets get cut-down as they become more worn-out. They evolve into shorties and usually" loose the sleeving" in that process. I'd say to try a 1/3 & 2/3s re-chop with the old ones when it's time to buy new long lines.

Eventually you will have a whole bunch of different handle and line length arrangements to function under any conditions, indoors to porta-potties being blown over.

PS: My wife feeds lots of animals (squirrels + a variety of birds) , so now we have a darn Norway rat living under the shed and patio outback. Barbara's ready to move after seeing it on the deck, despite our supporting the extermination industry for months. I feel your rodent pain too brother!
I want to pump carbon monoxide into that little shelter and then send in a big constrictor snake to eat their young offspring. We've caught a couple of 'em so far and they are certainly livin' large at my house! Unfortunately I live in a townhouse, so no explosives can be deployed, (ultra-sonic techniques seems to be enjoyed rather than shunned, poison is a tasty alternative treat, backfilling their tunnels is like try to stop potholes in the snow belt!)



#7 randude

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:22 PM

Revflyer, thanks for the info, that really helps. As expected, it seems best to have multiple line lengths. Sorry about your rat issue. Those Norway's are big nasty thinks. I was unknowingly chumming for rats by having an open compost pile in my garden one year and attracted a whole family of rats. I first tried to hunt them with my blow dart gun. Their hearing is too keen and they too fast, so even with the perfect shot, I would always miss. Finally, large traps with peanut butter attached to something stationary with rope or chain worked. The warfarin bars also work but there could be collateral damage to other critters you do like. Anyway, thanks again for the info and good luck with your rodent friend.

#8 randude

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:36 PM

Randy, there is a kite club, the Utah Kite Fliers (www.utahkitefliers) mainly based on SLC and we get together for fun flies and different events. This weekend (4/30) we are heading up to Idaho Falls for the Kiting Just for Fun event (visit the website for more info). It's a great event and would be a good drive to break in the new car (at least that can be your story). Several of us are heading to the event and it attracts many fliers from ID and the surrounding states. There are several other events coming up, including a fly at Thanksgiving Point and a larger kite festival (first year) at Bear Lake on the ID side.

I think the problem you may be having is crappy wind. Nothing worse and we have a lot of it. My favorite place to fly is Eisenhower Jr High in Taylorsville off Redwood Rd. Good winds and the field is _huge_. We have most of our fun flies there. You really need good steady wind when practicing. It makes everything much more enjoyable. It's also good to fly around other fliers as it really increases the learning curve.

200 foot lines are fine but they are really used mainly in competition and team flying. For everyday flying they usually take up too much of the flying field. Most people fly on 75-90 foot lines and 100 are just fine. Again, I think what you really need is some non-gusty winds and you will probably find that the kites you have are just fine. We don't have too many 15mph wind days here (though lately it's been weird).

Feel free to stop by the club website and join the Yahoo Group for communication. The more the better!

Todd Copeland
Utah Kite Fliers


Todd- Eisenhower Jr. High sounds great, I will definitely check it out and can hopefully come when you are having a group event. When I am able, I have been going out to the point of the mountain, which is where those 16-18 mph winds were. It does seem to be a spot you can almost depend on some wind, although light sometimes as well and there are all those hang gliders, who really don't seem to like kites. As for local parks, unless it is a great day, the winds seem to be, as you put it, "crappy". It's great to hear that there are some local rev fliers. I would love to come up to Idaho Falls this weekend, but fear all my bosses will give it a thumbs down. If I can somehow swing it, I will come. Thanks for the kind invite. Hope to meet you soon.

Randy




#9 randude

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:42 PM

If you own the "B" full sail, have ordered a Zen, and am looking at getting a full vent "B", you would have pretty much any wind range covered!!! Posted Image You got 2 sets of 80' lines, you could cut 1 set into 30's and 50's, and add 120's if you're going to fly with others! The short sets work for small places and low winds, but there is no "You got to have them"! Leave the 200#x100' set alone!! That will work well for the 2-4!!



Good luck on your choices, you've just entered "The Darkside"!! Posted Image




SV, good idea on the line cutting, although I do think I would be shaking a bit cutting those sweet lines. I would also need to figure out the knots uses to attach the kite line to the bridle attachment loops (if that is what their called). It seems that the kite line goes through the sheath of the attachment loop. For fishing, we would use a nail knot to attach the kite line.

#10 randude

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:49 PM

Just a quick add-on...

When you can sneak-in a buy of a 1.5 (standard, mid or full-vent) you'll likely find it's much easier to maneuver than your Zen, especially in winds over 10 mph.

Welcome to the Dark-Side! ...a WINDerFULL obsession!




Hey Jynx, I have been flying a 1.5 b series standard and do love it. I am hoping, with the Zen, to have more fun in lighter winds. Love the Hendrix quote! My favorite Hendrix album is "Cry of Love". If you don't have it, and are a fan, check it out.

#11 stroke survivor

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:26 PM

SV, good idea on the line cutting, although I do think I would be shaking a bit cutting those sweet lines. I would also need to figure out the knots uses to attach the kite line to the bridle attachment loops (if that is what their called). It seems that the kite line goes through the sheath of the attachment loop. For fishing, we would use a nail knot to attach the kite line.


In kiting you use a larkshead knot to attach lines to bridle at the attachment loops!!! NO KNOTS!!! Larksheads get tighter as you fly, but come apart easily when it's time to breakdown!! Don't know how to post a link or describe the larkshead! SOMEONE HELP, PLEASE!! Posted Image
I just know you make the larkshead in the flying line's loop and put the bridle attachment end through it and tighten down! The bridle's end knot will hold against the larkshead!!

PS: Cutting the lines was only a suggestion!! Only consider doing it if you're comfortable!!!Posted Image

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#12 JasonOsteo

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 12:40 AM

Larkshead? Mr.Barresi has a very nice video here:-


People are like Slinkys. Basically useless but fun to watch falling down stairs.

#13 Reef Runner

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 04:42 AM

PS: Cutting the lines was only a suggestion!! Only consider doing it if you're comfortable!!!Posted Image


Yes Randy, as SV mentioned, only cut those lines, if you are comfortable with finishing the job properly. That includes sleeving. Before doing any cutting, I would suggest that you investigate the task of sleeving, and how it is done. It's quite an easy job, once you know how, but may seem somewhat complicated, if you have never done it before. There is plenty of information about this process, online. Those 8 bare ends, that you will create, by cutting a quad set (should you decide to do so), need to be sleeved, so you can tie a loop, just like on the other ends, of those lines. When complete, you should have eight lines and 16 sleeved loops, 8 of which you will need to sleeve yourself, so that both ends of the lines, will be the same...........and learn that lark's head knot, as was mentioned in the previous post, with the video.

Here's a link to a topic, over on the Kitelife.com forum, that will give you an idea of what is involved in sleeving & making linesets. Posted Image
http://kitelife.com/...do-you-do-that/

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#14 Kitelife

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:51 AM

Awesome randude, welcome to the dark side. :)

Hope to see you at Antelope Island again this year, we'll be there, wouldn't miss it!

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#15 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 09:09 AM

Larkshead? Mr.Barresi has a very nice video here:-

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3JjXraxUfMU


Thanks for posting the link!!!!Posted Image Didn't want any crazy knots in the setup!!! Remember to use it at both the kite end and to attach your handles!!! That way everything comes off easy after a flying session!!Posted Image

If you haven't yet, equalize your lines! Make sure they're all one length, or the kite will do "funny" things!!!Posted Image

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#16 randude

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:18 PM

Thanks for the links. I can proudly say that I can tie a solid larkshead. That sleeving process seemed mysterious, but it now makes sense. Thanks for the links. It appears that sleeving material can be easily obtained through a kite shop or you can make your own. Coring out a braided piece of line seems like it would be difficult, so I would probably buy some sleeving material. I still may need to hold off a bit before I am bold enough to cut my lines. Anyway, thanks for the help.

#17 randude

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:19 PM

Awesome randude, welcome to the dark side. :)

Hope to see you at Antelope Island again this year, we'll be there, wouldn't miss it!




Looking forward to it!

#18 Reef Runner

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 04:41 AM

Thanks for the links. I can proudly say that I can tie a solid larkshead. That sleeving process seemed mysterious, but it now makes sense. Thanks for the links. It appears that sleeving material can be easily obtained through a kite shop or you can make your own. Coring out a braided piece of line seems like it would be difficult, so I would probably buy some sleeving material. I still may need to hold off a bit before I am bold enough to cut my lines. Anyway, thanks for the help.


Yes, the sleeving process had me very confused, when I was just getting started, but once I actually did it - "Piece of Cake". It's not hard to do, just a bit tedious. As for the sleeving material, yes, that is readily available at most any kite store, or on-line...........or as you say, you can pull the core out of a piece of bridle line..............good luck

Hint.......If you are worried about actually sleeving your line, get yourself a scrap piece (4' - 5') of line, a small piece (15" - 16") of sleeving, and make yourself a sleeving tool, out of a folded-in-half, piece of fine wire, and do yourself a trial run. Thread the line through the sleeving, tie the knots, make the loop, and check it out. That should take the worry out of the process, for you ! Posted Image

Then, when it's time to do the real thing, all you've got to do, is measure out four equal lengths of line, and do the same thing on all eight ends. Do give some thought to color coding. Sleeving comes in different colors, usually used to ID top lines vs. bottom lines. People also use Sharpies, maybe a red mark on the right lines, either on the sleeving or on the spectra line, itself, but whatever you do, make sure you make the identical same ID, on the opposite ends, of each line. Just come up with something that will mean something to you (top vs. bottom) (left vs. right) Posted Image

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#19 stroke survivor

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:33 AM

Thanks for the links. I can proudly say that I can tie a solid larkshead. That sleeving process seemed mysterious, but it now makes sense. Thanks for the links. It appears that sleeving material can be easily obtained through a kite shop or you can make your own. Coring out a braided piece of line seems like it would be difficult, so I would probably buy some sleeving material. I still may need to hold off a bit before I am bold enough to cut my lines. Anyway, thanks for the help.


Glad to hear you can do the larkshead!! Too many folks tie knots to connect the kite and handles to the lines and have big trouble when they're done flying and try to take things apart!!Posted ImageGood flights!!!Posted Image

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#20 jburka

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:15 PM

That includes sleeving.


Or not. The only sleeved lines I have are ones that came that way; I haven't sleeved a line myself in, oh, probably 17 or 18 years now. Not even the 1800# spectra I use on show kites.

Makes creating a quad set much easier; I just change the length of the tail on the red braswell knot to make the sure lines are even.




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