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Rev. 1 or the Zen?


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#21 Kitelife

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:00 AM

Videos of the Zen vs Rev I SUL, in comparable conditions, although much shorter lines on the Zen (30') vs the Rev I (80').



It's not an apple to apple comparison with these two videos, but it might be interesting for you to see the videos side by side here.

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#22 Clin

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:35 AM

Thanks Chua!

I am bit surprised you place the Zen between the 1.5 and the 1; I read the others desriptions as the Zen is more radical in its flying style....

Reg. short lines, how short do you need them to be in order to make low wind flying easier? I am normally flying on 80' and looking forward to try my new 120'. From dual line flying, I actually found it easier to fly my kites around 100' instead of 50'....

Thanks.


Thanks just my personal opinion :) :) . It'd be perfect if you could try it for yourself if it's possible. Admittedly, I have more time on the Rev 1 than the Zen but my initial thoughts are that the Zen is closer to the 1.5 than the 1 is in terms of flying style.


Line length depends on what flying you are doing and general conditions. I'd say 12-15ft for urban or no wind, 75-100ft for light wind, 100-120ft for team flying. The 1.5 with RaceRods is a very versatile kite. Tweaks you could try are removing the bridle, magic sticks to get a flatter sail and many light wind practices.


Cheers,

Chua

#23 ahofer

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 05:05 AM

I have 50' lines that I use for almost anything when I'm alone. Long enough to do everything (and about minimum for the Zen, from my point of view) but short enough to throw.
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#24 Wobbly

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:11 AM

I have had a Rev1 for some time now with the standard 1/2" leading edge, although I did fly it, it did not have the same pleasurable flying experiance as say a 1.5 B series, although the 1/2" SLE does mean it is great in bumpy winds even around the 30mph mark as it is able to cope with big gusts of wind without rapidly surging off, I recently purchased a 1/4" 4 wrap leading edge for it and have been very pleasantly surprised at how it fly's, feels just like a big 1.5 so it now comes out of the bag much more often, the reason for going for the 4 wrap frame is that to keep a low wind performance the efficiency of the sail needs to be maintained so a stiffer frame helps with this as it prevents the leading edge taking to much of a curve, I have not flown a Zen so cannot comment on it's performance, hope this is of help.

#25 Beaufort

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:55 AM

Videos of the Zen vs Rev I SUL, in comparable conditions, although much shorter lines on the Zen (30') vs the Rev I (80').

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbFXYrIlyss"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=RbFXYrIlyss[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2ha1KnXmRE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=I2ha1KnXmRE[/url]

It's not an apple to apple comparison with these two videos, but it might be interesting for you to see the videos side by side here.


Thanks a lot, very nice movies both of them (beautiful flying)

;-)

#26 Beaufort

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:00 AM

I have had a nice easter holiday with lots of good flying.

For my part using 120 ft. lines for the first time - very nice indeed. It gave me the slow gracious flying I like, so now I am even more torn between the Zen and the Rev 1....

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#27 Clin

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:26 AM

I have had a nice easter holiday with lots of good flying.

For my part using 120 ft. lines for the first time - very nice indeed. It gave me the slow gracious flying I like, so now I am even more torn between the Zen and the Rev 1....

Posted Image



As a side note, a direct comparison is only valid if its between the Zen and Rev 1 with 2 wrap rods or RR. IMHO, you'd need to compare within a similar wind range, that being limited by the Zen as it is designed for a low wind range. They Zen will not be flying pretty in the winds a Rev 1 with 4wrap rods is designed for. (Sorry, not a fan of any SLEs :kid_devlish: )

Chua

#28 randude

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:41 PM

Has anyone considered or tried a 3 or 4 wrap Rev 1 frame in a Zen to increase the wind range and for a different experience?

#29 RevWizard

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:59 PM

Has anyone considered or tried a 3 or 4 wrap Rev 1 frame in a Zen to increase the wind range and for a different experience?

In my opinion, you really do not want to do that as this is a sail designed for light wind. If it gets too much stretching due to stronger winds, it will start to loose its nice light wind characteristics.
However, I have flown Zen using a three wrap rod and the green race rod just to get the feel of the difference. The four wrap, I will stay away from as I prize my Zen so high.

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#30 Joe B

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:06 PM

What is the current default frame included with the Zen these days?

#31 stroke survivor

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:34 PM

What is the current default frame included with the Zen these days?


It comes with a specially designed Zen frame, but most dealers will swap it out if that's what you want!!!Posted Image

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#32 randude

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

In my opinion, you really do not want to do that as this is a sail designed for light wind. If it gets too much stretching due to stronger winds, it will start to loose its nice light wind characteristics.
However, I have flown Zen using a three wrap rod and the green race rod just to get the feel of the difference. The four wrap, I will stay away from as I prize my Zen so high.




Thanks John, thats what I needed to know. "Protect the Zen" is a good mantra.

#33 Beaufort

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 11:24 PM

OK, I have given in and ordered a custom colour Zen ;-)

I really look forward to some Northern summer "light night" flying. Thanks for all your advice and help!

#34 REVflyer

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 02:12 AM

great choice, you will certainly enjoy it!

#35 Joe B

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 09:52 PM

Looking forward to placing an order for a Zen myself in the near future. Is the standard Zen frame the best choice for 0-3mph, or are folks going with Race Rods or some other hybrid combo? I'm just not clear on how the Zen frame compares with Race Rods as I've heard of folks using both and wasn't sure why. The Zen frame is the lightest, I take it?

#36 kwmf

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 11:17 PM

I believe iQuad use a 2-wrap center leading edge and Race everywhere else on their team Zen. I currently use a full race frame in my Zen, but I do have a 2-wrap center piece that I plan to try out when I get a chance.

I originally flew the Zen on the full Zen frame as it came before switching to a full race frame. Personally I prefer the full race frame and didn't entirely get along with the Zen frame, but that could be down to flying style and me being more used to the Zen sail when I started on race rods with it.

Personal preferances aside, the Zen rods flex a lot more than the race rods, which theoretically cups more wind and will allow you to fly more flat footed than with race rods. As far as weight goes, my race frame equipped Zen is less than 20 grams lighter than with the Zen frame so I wouldn't worry about it. Personally, the more I fly the less I care about weight and my flying style/skills seem to do better with a stiffer/heavier frame in low wind ... but thats just me.

For me personally, I don't see myself going back to the Zen frame as it's bends too easily for my tastes. If you feel you're going to put some air miles on the Zen then by all means get a race frame if you can afford to and then experiment from there if you want to get into the hybrid frames for your ultimate match - I just like to keep it simple which is why I'm on a full race frame instead of a hybrid.

Lastly, I feel I must add the obligatory disclaimer...
Many have said it and my learning experience agrees with them - the Zen isn't an anti-gravity device and won't defy the laws of physics no matter how much Bazzer dust is sprinkled on it. Low wind flying requires some low wind flying skill - the Zen just makes it easIER. I'm actually able to keep my 1.5 and B2 platforms in the air in wind I wouldn't have bothered with a year ago, but there's very little pressure on the lines to feel whats happening so you need to develop some sensitivity and light touch to fly. The Zen puts the pressure back in the lines due to the increased sail area and makes it easIER to fly in less wind with less movement - but it still needs you to fly it.

#37 Joe B

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:51 AM

Lastly, I feel I must add the obligatory disclaimer...
Many have said it and my learning experience agrees with them - the Zen isn't an anti-gravity device and won't defy the laws of physics no matter how much Bazzer dust is sprinkled on it. Low wind flying requires some low wind flying skill - the Zen just makes it easIER. I'm actually able to keep my 1.5 and B2 platforms in the air in wind I wouldn't have bothered with a year ago, but there's very little pressure on the lines to feel whats happening so you need to develop some sensitivity and light touch to fly. The Zen puts the pressure back in the lines due to the increased sail area and makes it easIER to fly in less wind with less movement - but it still needs you to fly it.


Roger that. I'm not new to this concept... been flying since 1995 and consider light wind flying one of my strong suits, actually. That being said, I'm just trying to understand why one would opt for one frame or the other, given what the Zen is designed for, so thanks much for the info on the frame flex. Choices, choices!

#38 badinfluence

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:24 AM

just my two cents..... i purchased a zen a few months back and had some ups and downs with it. my first noticable expierence was at a fly where the winds were swirly and light and just a mess. I couldnt get the b series to fly for more than a minute or two, so i broke out the zen and like others say, it saved the day and i was able to fly for a while. On the other side to that, i recently went to another fly and had some real bad light wind conditions and again, couldnt get anything to fly. All of the dual liners had sul's going and my b or 1.5 barely flew without alot of effort. I figured i would pull out the magic zen and be up and flying and unfortunatly that was not the case. It didnt let me down but it took all i could to keep it in the air with 30ft lines, turned out to be a real workout of a day. THIS ALL BEING SAID,,, i think it more comes down to techniques and practice with light winds over kite choices. Setup is something to be concerned with and will help. One thing i noticed about the zen with the zen frame is it almost launches itself because the frame is very springy, which i tend to like.




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