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Fine Tuning


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#1 Felix Mottram

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 11:27 AM

I needed to shorten a top line that had 'apparently' stretched by about 1/8 inch so I looped (x3) a piece of sleeving underneath the fixing loop at the top of the handle. This certainly worked as a quick temporary fix on the field!

Felix

#2 --Pete

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:42 PM

How did you discover this difference in line-length?
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#3 Felix Mottram

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 03:57 PM

How did you discover this difference in line-length?


I looked at the leaders...

I had sensed that something was wrong.

The adjustment made a considerable difference in the 'ease' of flying. Compensation for unequal line lengths is a hard task master.

Felix

#4 stroke survivor

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:13 AM

An 1/8th of an inch!!??!!Posted Image I can't even see that much difference!!!! I need stronger glasses!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#5 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 08:42 AM

An 1/8th of an inch!!??!!Posted Image I can't even see that much difference!!!! I need stronger glasses!!Posted Image


I was bemused! <grins>

Back at Long Beach I handed the JMH vented kite to JB to try. He very kindly pointed out that something was wrong and it turned out that one of the top lines was one step 'wrong' on the pigtails!

That was at least 1/2 inch out...

Felix

#6 Watty

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 09:13 AM

The way that I have always checked this is to put both handles together so they are lined up perfectly, then launch. If the kite doesn't fly close to straight up, there's an issue somewhere.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#7 stroke survivor

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 09:16 AM

Now I can see 1/2" inch!!! Posted Image Ain't totally blind!! Well, I think I'm not blind!!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#8 Jim Foster

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 10:03 AM

The way that I have always checked this is to put both handles together so they are lined up perfectly, then launch. If the kite doesn't fly close to straight up, there's an issue somewhere.


Exactly. If the kite goes straight up, or very nearly so, I don't mess with the lines.

Very quick and easy.
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#9 Wobbly

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 10:56 AM

If you are using the handle's together and launching the kite method to check for discrepancies in line length, it is a good idea to have the kite directly down wind from you, if not the wind will tend to steer the kite to left or right, this could make you think you need to adjust something that does not need adjusting.

#10 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 10:59 AM

Exactly. If the kite goes straight up, or very nearly so, I don't mess with the lines.

Very quick and easy.


Quite right! Quick and easy is good. Taking time to actually do it is the important bit and I guess that the obvious thing is to check every time that you set the kite up to fly. <note to self>

The actual situation that I have seen recently is that the pigtails have 'stretched' unevenly. I'm wondering if a different tack may be appropriate in order to achieve 'say' 1/8inch calibration?

The 'sliding knot' solution favoured by some seems prone to miss-use by inexperienced fliers as well as some who would claim to be experienced fliers <grins>

Felix

#11 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 11:08 AM

If you are using the handle's together and launching the kite method to check for discrepancies in line length, it is a good idea to have the kite directly down wind from you, if not the wind will tend to steer the kite to left or right, this could make you think you need to adjust something that does not need adjusting.


Good point. At the Long Beach event last year it was interesting to see how many fliers needed help in placing their kites in the centre of the wind window in preparation for the launch <grins>

Felix

#12 ahofer

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 02:08 AM

Of course if you do this with a Zen, you will have aged significantly by the time it turns.
When I was young, my bologna had a first name. Now my bodywash has an "Objective".

#13 REVflyer

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 02:32 AM

I'll claim to be an experienced flier

. . . . . ... and I strongly suggest pilots use a single overhand knot in 100# hi test bridle line (doubled, as attached to the handles, but each of the strands is independent/separate) which can be quickly untied and easily moved as a minor adjustment if necessary. Yes an eighth of an inch matters if you want a neutral.

First though, make a habit of testing the alignment of your handles (on a single well placed stake). If they don't align to a single point then they are obviously not even. Insure there are no tangles or nesting before making any adjustments. There's no level of skill or experience necessary for this step. Nor a reason to skip it by the wily veterans.

You haven't tuned your handles & adjusted for a preferred hand gripping position for DOWN yet, . . ... you'll need to attach the kite for that next phase. I set the kite up inverted and keep adding reverse/DOWN until the kite will back-up inverted (in low wind this action may still necessitate walking backwards to add energy). I grip very high, flying with my index finger above the foam, full forward is them resting only on this finger position. I prefer lots of reverse in my tuning, so the kite sail gets square to the wind as my neutral. For lessons or team flying I add a knot of forward drive.

I have a couple of different bridle set-ups on my most commonly used (1.5's) kites, so the bridles themselves also have adjustment knots (as I use a variety of handle lengths also).

I leave the tuned leader/flying lines on those handles and wind the string around 'em at the end of the day, one less thing to carry. You lay out the lines on a stake, under tension, unwinding each revolution, not feeding it off to set-up next time. You are taking out each wrap you placed in them during winding. The handles should be separated as wide as you can reach and placed on the ground under tension. Now any tangles or nesting is laying right at the stake, easy to undue if necessary. Sleeving makes it tough to slide thru each other, if you tie a stopper knot in the lines instead you don't need sleeving and if you use a figure of eight knot then that weak point is four thicknesses! You don't have to be concerned with the loss of strength at the knot, it's the strongest point and no tight bends can hurt each other in times of severe stress either.

The leaders lengths are determined by the handle "throw". You want the top leaders almost as long as the distance between the two attachment points on the handles. Any tuning adjustments will be made on the bottoms. That way your constant is the top lengths, this makes the "3-D catch" easier 'cause you can reach out there further without cutting your pinky fingers on the raw spectra.

I want the newest pilot to have the confidence and skill necessary to make decisions in this arena. So their lines are always right, it makes a huge difference overall in acquiring all the kite's capabilities. This skill has nothing to do with flying the kite. It is really a simple question, "did you align your handles before attaching the kite?" All the rest of this is a personal preference gained thru trial and error (lots of 'em)

#14 Felix Mottram

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:17 AM

I'll claim to be an experienced flier

. . . . . ... and I strongly suggest pilots use a single overhand knot in 100# hi test bridle line (doubled, as attached to the handles, but each of the strands is independent/separate) which can be quickly untied and easily moved as a minor adjustment if necessary. Yes an eighth of an inch matters if you want a neutral.

<snip>


There are many ways to...

I have generally relied on a visual check of the kite LE down when connected to the lines and handles, top of handles staked. With sufficient 'brake' the vertical spars will only be a couple of inches off vertical.

Felix

#15 REVflyer

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 03:48 AM

I can appreciate that it's another set-up step Felix. Maybe you can quantify the differences in handle alignment from attached on the kite, but I sure can't.

The stake method of testing "alignment" is foolproof and I want everything perfect, every time, not off 1/4", but aligned so close you can fly on one finger only. This test is just as important as having some liquid refreshments throughout the day to me! We would all be amazed how far off most kite lines are, when they are subjected to this level of scrutiny.
And NO you don't have to care this much, it will still fly just fine!

Several members within our local kite club spend lots of time fiddling with stuff, just to see what happens if we changed it. Some work out and some stink, but it's still a great time to share our experiments together. Over they years we have tackled many different areas on quads and in particular the 1.5 platform, 'cause almost everyone has one of these kites.
~ whisper battens to shape the sail,
~ active vents, adjustable vent covers,
~ weird fabrics, mylar, orcon, tie-dyed icarex
~ various bridles designs, even indoors,
~ lots of different handle lengths and materials to make them from,
~ different manufacturers' line-sets,
~ lighting methods
~ overall size & panel construction variables

If you are making comparison-judgements or playing with options, it becomes crucial to limit the number of variables, ideally only one should be considered at a time. Perfectly aligned handles/ lines is a given.

If a new pilot is having trouble, we will do the alignment step first, then change the reverse setting on leaders, (maybe we'll even need to add leaders!) then lessen their grip pressure and finally work of getting those darn feet from a stuck in concrete position. It's okay to move around a little bit, adding or subtracting energy, no bonus points for rigidly stationary!

5 minutes worth of fine tuning makes the kite fly almost by itself, it is dialed-in so sweet.

I'm approaching the conclusion of a second decade on Rev handles and they are more fun to fly & better constructed today, then ever before.

#16 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:14 AM

I can appreciate that it's another set-up step Felix. Maybe you can quantify the differences in handle alignment from attached on the kite, but I sure can't.

<snip>

5 minutes worth of fine tuning makes the kite fly almost by itself, it is dialed-in so sweet.

I'm approaching the conclusion of a second decade on Rev handles and they are more fun to fly & better constructed today, then ever before.


I am fully in agreement with the value of fine tuning. I would only suggest that with handle tops staked through attached loops so that they lie free, side by side, it is possible to check line lengths at the kite end. With leading edge on the ground the angle of the vertical spars will give a clear indication of the amount of brake!

Felix




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