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Equalizing Line Sets


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#1 Kitemac

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:27 PM

Starting to get ready for the flying season and was equalizing the line sets today. On the revs I understand you equalize the top lines and bottom lines separately using the knot system on the handles to fine tune any difference between top and bottom. Is there a rule of thumb when you also need to equalize top to bottom linesets? I know you experienced fliers can feel it but for a newbie knowing it would be helpful. One of the linesets has a two inch difference in top to bottom. I don't feel anything is wrong with the way the kite flys but I may not have the experience to sense the difference.

Thanks,

Kitemac

#2 Kitelife

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:45 PM

Hi Tom!

Here are a couple of references for equalizing R/L...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIbbM3udKFI"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rIbbM3udKFI[/url]

Lots more tutorials like the one above at LearnKites.com and in the Kitelife subscribers section, which I know you have access to (a thousand thanks).

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRPjbl0dVE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DNRPjbl0dVE[/url]

To be clear, we don't equalize using the top knots, that's for tuning, and in most cases, the top lines will end up being longer on a good flying Rev.

Getting your R/L lines equal are definitely important, otherwise it's like driving a car that is out of alignment, perpetually correcting - whether you know it or not. ;)

With regard to equalizing TOP to BOTTOM, I don't find it's very important unless one or the other has stretched so much that I can't find a good setting amongst the adjustment knots due to an extreme difference of length between top and bottom... As long as the top and bottom lines are within 4-5 inches of each other, I don't find any problems.

Again, equalizing R/L is of paramount importance.

John Barresi

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#3 Kitemac

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 03:02 PM

As long as the top and bottom lines are within 4-5 inches of each other, I don't find any problems.


John:

Thanks for the videos and tips. 4-5 inches is much higher than I expected so I am in good shape.

Tom

#4 Kitelife

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 03:15 PM

In all honesty, 4-5 is probably a bit too much... Most of ours are within 3 inches.

John Barresi

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#5 Wobbly

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:19 PM

Having a difference between the top and bottom line length's can in some circumstances be beneficial, if you find you have run out of adjustment on the top lines you can get the extra adjustment needed by swapping top to bottom and vice versa as the bottom lines if always used on the brake lines will generally be shorter than the top's, this probably depends on the quality of your line set and therefore how much they stretch/creep, as John said you just need to make sure left and right are the same length.

#6 Kitelife

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:25 PM

Good point Wobbly. ;)

John Barresi

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#7 Jim Foster

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:17 PM

When starting with a set of new lines, after a few flights, we switch top to bottom for a few flights, then back. This way we have minimal difference in stretch between top and bottom. By then, most all of the stretch seems to be out.

Works for us.
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#8 stroke survivor

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:27 AM

Depending on wind conditions, I'll put my Rev1 up to stretch my lines out!! Then I'll check them for length again!! Usually they're good to go after that!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#9 Jeepster

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:11 AM

Come on guys ... we should be using the correct terms.

Stretch: Stretch is a temporary elongation of the lines. Just like rubber bands, our lines stretch out under load and return to the original length when unloaded. Hopefully your lines don't stretch as much as rubber bands, but still. Prove it to yourself by anchoring one end of an older single line and pulling on the other end. It'll stretch with load and relax when the load is removed.

Creep: Creep is a permanent elongation of the lines. The material in our lines falls in the family of plastics, so they will show a permanent elongation when initially loaded. The higher the loading, the more creep is introduced ... well, up until the line breaks. That's what you're seeing on a new line set when the top lines become longer than the bottom lines. Prove this concept to yourself by anchoring a new line and pulling on the free end. If you pull hard, the end you're pulling on will move a couple of feet for a 120 ft line. When you remove the load, it will go back towards it's original length ... but not quite. That difference is creep. (Now you've got to do the same thing for the other three lines ... sorry!)

Since all lines creep, it's important to do as Jim says and rotate your top and bottom lines when they're new. After some high wind flights and line rotation they will have stabilized so that you can re-equalize them and forget about it for a long time. If you're right handed, then you probably pul harder with your right hand and will introduce more creep in those lines. The solution is to allow the left and right sets to rotate naturally by not marking them as such.

Cheers,
Tom

#10 Jim Foster

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:46 AM

We rotate our lines side to side on occasion.

Usually by mistake. :confused!:
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#11 Kitelife

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 01:22 PM

It's also not uncommon for the right lines to stretch ( or creep :kid_content: ) differently than the left, since most fliers are "heavier-handed" on one side.

Right-handers for example, will often find their right lines stretch a tad more than the right.

John Barresi

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#12 Simon

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 01:30 PM

It's also not uncommon for the right lines to stretch ( or creep :kid_content: ) differently than the left, since most fliers are "heavier-handed" on one side.

Right-handers for example, will often find their right lines stretch a tad more than the right.




Hi JB, VERY good point and if you have a flyer with only one Rev and they leave the lines attached or mark the handles so they always use the same side. This will exaggerate this left or Right handed effect.






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#13 RevWizard

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:34 PM

Hi JB, VERY good point and if you have a flyer with only one Rev and they leave the lines attached or mark the handles so they always use the same side. This will exaggerate this left or Right handed effect.

and what do you know, here is the guy who was head judge for the quad line ballet discipline at Scheveningen in 1996. He told my I am "a right handed rev flier". He gave the best competitors debriefing I ever lived through. Thank You Simon.
Yes, I am a right handed flier and I am still trying to balance it out with the left.
I am a bit different when it comes to lines because I always use the same line on the same position every time I use them. I adjust them maybe once a year if they need it, usually not. I use primarily Shanti lines, they are old but still in great shape.
It is basically again down to your personal preference. Mine works fine for me.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#14 Jim Foster

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:31 PM

We rotate our lines side to side on occasion.

Usually by mistake. :confused!:



Really funny thing. We flew at Huntington Beach today. When we set up, Lynn looked at her lines and said "Well, I've got my right and left lines switched. Oh well"

She switched her handles side to side and we had a great day. I had to laugh as I had just mentioned this earlier today in this thread.
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