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#1 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 01:21 AM

Ok I am at it again.
Seems to me that the the point of most friction and therefore potential wear on a Rev is on the top sail panel just bellow the leading edge (top 2inch or so) at the contact point with the vertical spar. Revs are pretty bullet proof and take a lot of abuse but (now here comes the obsessive bit) try holding your sail up to an electric lamp or ceiling light (not to close and not halogen) can you see the fractures and wear at this point?
As the sail stretches in use and wrinkles, more rubbing occurs.
Tunning the sail helps but is not a solve all. Lubrication also helps.
The spars a well made and seem to be perfectly wrapped.
But WRAPS MEAN RIBS.
Although these unavoidable ribs are not sharp they must increase friction on a loaded sail especially in variable winds having a rubbing and filing effect.
Heres a simple solution I thought may work (dont like tedlar tape on sail) I figure a wrap or 2 of Scotch cellotape 2inch applied at the crucial point on the vertical spar should smooth things out without adding to much weight and significantly increase life of the sail.
Ok so " I am at it again" And yes "I am obsessive"
But judge me not.Posted Image
There will be a lot of Revs flying close to living room kitchen lights tonightPosted Image
tommy harrison

#2 REVflyer

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 04:33 AM

obsessive?, No, more like "overly concerned visually", ....

Revs are no fun hangin' on the wall.
Ignore all the stress cracks, split mesh, foot prints, burns and soiling. The darn things are meant to be flown. Abuse 'em like a redheaded step-child by the woodshed! When it is a ragged mess years will have elapsed, then you go get a new one. Or fly a new one for a single season, take a little beating & sell it, using those coins towards a new one. It's not going to appreciate in value no matter what you do, geesh it's a kite. So use it and enjoy it's long lifespan.

If you are an exeprimenter and must address this issue.
You could paint part of the carbon frame tube (slather it on and let it drip off with the tube suspended and inverted) and make it more slippery,
or
you could add belt-loops to the sail, thus preventing any wiggle or rubbing by locking frame members into position (no-sewing necessary).

I wouldn't recommend a tape wrapper though, as the edge of the adhesive will pick-up grit and eventually you've created a slow moving dremel cutting wheel that would actually score the edge of whatever it contracts (like your sail!)

#3 --Pete

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 05:40 AM

...a wrap or 2 of Scotch cellotape 2inch...


If you want something smooth there, how about a short piece of heat-shrink tubing. It's available at most electronic shops. (Radio Shack or the like). Get a size just big enough to slip over the tube; cut to length; heat it with a hot-air gun (or very carefully with a lighter). It will shrink to a very tight fit on the tube.



--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#4 RevWizard

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 06:23 AM

What you are seeing as wraps on the spars is not really wraps. This is the resin(I think that is the proper name), that is impregnated into the actual carbon fibers which is more a weave. The carbon is wrapped around a metal mandrel. Next the this is all wrapped with clear cellophane tape(similar to scotch tape but not sticky)from end to end. Where the tape overlays each other is the ribbing, which you might think are wraps. The rods are then placed in a special oven to be cured. When the rods come out they are cooled and then the cellophane is removed, thus you see what appears to be wraps. As I understand it, you could sand this off without having any effect on the rods strength because it is resin not the carbon wrap. As I understand the ZEN rods, they are sanded down in some way to give them the beautiful carbon weave effect.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#5 AldenMiler

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 07:03 AM

John, thanks for the explanation!

I was noticing the same thing with my new "Rich Rods" and was wondering about lightly sanding them. I know this will void any warranty but I am going to try it on a set and see what happens.

-Alden
"Don't go in there!" RC

#6 --Pete

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:11 AM

John, thanks for the explanation!

I was noticing the same thing with my new "Rich Rods" and was wondering about lightly sanding them. I know this will void any warranty but I am going to try it on a set and see what happens.

-Alden


I really would not sand carbon fiber tubes. Cutting any of the carbon fibers (especially the outer ones) will drastically weaken the tube. You might get away with this near the ends (as in this case) but any sanding near the middle will cause a great weakening of the tube.

Edited by --Pete, 11 February 2011 - 08:12 AM.

--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#7 RevWizard

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:27 AM

I really would not sand carbon fiber tubes. Cutting any of the carbon fibers (especially the outer ones) will drastically weaken the tube. You might get away with this near the ends (as in this case) but any sanding near the middle will cause a great weakening of the tube.

You aren't sanding the carbon fiber in the way I mentioned.
You only sand the resin coating which on the outside. The carbon is on the inside. When sanding you will note that the dust is clear to white. If you were sanding the carbon the dust will be dark grey to black.
Basically all you want to do is to sand off enough to remove the resin ridges created by the cellophane wrap.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#8 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:22 AM

obsessive?, No, more like "overly concerned visually", ....

Revs are no fun hangin' on the wall.
Ignore all the stress cracks, split mesh, foot prints, burns and soiling. The darn things are meant to be flown. Abuse 'em like a redheaded step-child by the woodshed! When it is a ragged mess years will have elapsed, then you go get a new one. Or fly a new one for a single season, take a little beating & sell it, using those coins towards a new one. It's not going to appreciate in value no matter what you do, geesh it's a kite. So use it and enjoy it's long lifespan.

If you are an exeprimenter and must address this issue.
You could paint part of the carbon frame tube (slather it on and let it drip off with the tube suspended and inverted) and make it more slippery,
or
you could add belt-loops to the sail, thus preventing any wiggle or rubbing by locking frame members into position (no-sewing necessary).

I wouldn't recommend a tape wrapper though, as the edge of the adhesive will pick-up grit and eventually you've created a slow moving dremel cutting wheel that would actually score the edge of whatever it contracts (like your sail!)



Hey RevF I see what you mean about the grit stick. Guess I am an "experimenter" but rest assured my kites spend their time firmly stuck to the sky and never to the wall. Rain or shine! I do love to address an issue or two though.
As my budget allows I look forward to flying an army of mashed up Revs and fussing over a few crisp taut new ones.
Cheers
Ps. already sold the step-children.


tommy harrison

#9 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:23 AM

If you want something smooth there, how about a short piece of heat-shrink tubing. It's available at most electronic shops. (Radio Shack or the like). Get a size just big enough to slip over the tube; cut to length; heat it with a hot-air gun (or very carefully with a lighter). It will shrink to a very tight fit on the tube.




Nice idea Pete but I fear heat
tommy harrison

#10 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:25 AM

John, thanks for the explanation!

I was noticing the same thing with my new "Rich Rods" and was wondering about lightly sanding them. I know this will void any warranty but I am going to try it on a set and see what happens.

-Alden


Please let me know how it goes Alden. Sounds like a plan.
tommy harrison

#11 awindofchange

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:32 AM

John M is right, the ridges are actually the remains of the resin and give no real importance to the strength of the rod. You can lightly sand the ridges off without any problem. Just be careful not to sand down to the actual carbon in the rod.

That being said, I agree with Revflyer, why bother?? Just fly the thing till it is done and then you get to purchase a new one! If you are on a budget then you can purchase just the sail and use your existing framesets, lines and accessories. Also, flying your Rev until it is completely warn out doesn't mean you will be purchasing a new one every month. I have an old EXP (my very first Rev) still in my bag and use it regularly for teaching, training and demos. It is also the one I pull out when at the dry lake bed (ground like flying on sandpaper). This kite is now over 12 years old and still kicking. Even though your Rev will get some wear, you will be surprised at just how long they will last and how well they hold up. :)

Fly it like you stole it!

#12 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 11:50 AM

What you are seeing as wraps on the spars is not really wraps. This is the resin(I think that is the proper name), that is impregnated into the actual carbon fibers which is more a weave. The carbon is wrapped around a metal mandrel. Next the this is all wrapped with clear cellophane tape(similar to scotch tape but not sticky)from end to end. Where the tape overlays each other is the ribbing, which you might think are wraps. The rods are then placed in a special oven to be cured. When the rods come out they are cooled and then the cellophane is removed, thus you see what appears to be wraps. As I understand it, you could sand this off without having any effect on the rods strength because it is resin not the carbon wrap. As I understand the ZEN rods, they are sanded down in some way to give them the beautiful carbon weave effect.


Thanks for taking the time to explain John. Great to know how things are actually made. I did mistake the ribs for carbon wraps. I have noticed that some new rods I have had have been slightly tacky. This must have been resin.
tommy harrison

#13 RevWizard

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:00 PM

I neither would bother to sand my rods.

I just tried it long ago to see if they could be made smooth and was surprised to find out that the sandpaper did not turn black this it told me there must have been some type of coating on the rod which I didn't have a clue what it was.
I later found out actually what it was and why it was still there.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#14 RevWizard

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:04 PM

John, thanks for the explanation!

I was noticing the same thing with my new "Rich Rods" and was wondering about lightly sanding them. I know this will void any warranty but I am going to try it on a set and see what happens.

-Alden

I really don't know why those rods are green and what effect sanding might have on them.
I suspect that the green must be some new flavor of carbon or even paint. Who knows!

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#15 tommylurvebus

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:27 PM

Step-children and kite stealing you guys are Hard Core. Think I should loosen up a bit. I will check the UK prices for sail only. Posted Image to go with my sanded down rodsPosted Image

Edited by tommylurvebus, 11 February 2011 - 02:18 PM.

tommy harrison

#16 terry w

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 11:49 AM

you might try "zen " rods ... they are already sanded or vinyl electrician's tape ( of the appropriate width) running lengthwise ... no wrapping involved
we run self adhesive 3/4 inch dacron insignia tape on the backside of the sail ... in behind the upright rods ... in the wear area ... works way better ... :) :) :)
cheers
Terry
ISLAND QUAD
Posted Image

#17 Felix Mottram

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:15 PM

<snip>

This kite is now over 12 years old and still kicking. Even though your Rev will get some wear, you will be surprised at just how long they will last and how well they hold up. :)

Fly it like you stole it!


Some of the kites that the Decs took delivery of in 1999 were still in service in 2008 when we got some new sails at the Portsmouth event.

Looking at the list of events that involved sand in the interim suggests a very robust product <grins>

Felix

#18 tommylurvebus

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 08:25 AM

Some of the kites that the Decs took delivery of in 1999 were still in service in 2008 when we got some new sails at the Portsmouth event.

Looking at the list of events that involved sand in the interim suggests a very robust product <grins>

Felix


Encouraging facts indeed. Good to hear the sails are standing up admirably to our great British conditions. Thanks Felix. Next Saturday I am off to the southwest coast for a week of harsh February flying. Sure my kites are gener take a bashing wherever my skills are lacking. Im going to try not to worry to much about them whilst freezing my socks off. Oh I wish it were California so do my Revs. Posted Image
tommy harrison




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