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Understanding lines and handles


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#1 Taihapemike

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 01:14 AM

Ok- this post is about me trying to understand the effects of lines and handles in low wind... Today I was flying my rev1 when the wind died out, just for giggles I took my rev off the lines and hooked up a flexifoil bullet 3.5mtr foil , it flew like a charm with tons of pull.

I've flown the foil lots of times and I would have had to work really hard to keep it up in such light wind on it's factory lines and handles (about 15 inch plastic) - the only difference being 8 inch rev handles and slightly lighter lines!

Can anyone shine some light on this?

#2 REVflyer

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:33 AM

If you are adding "forward" in your leader tuning you're going the wrong way! You need the sail square to the wind for maximum pressure. Try longer throw handles and a big dose of "Reverse" or DOWN in the leader tuning + some hours of practice.

Laying the kite out, as flatly as possible,...Archer Style, with the leading edge pointing away from you, towards the horizon. The kite has more lift with the leading edge facing left or right rather than parallel with the horizon (upright).

Try "using the glide" with the leading edge inverted (from the top of the wind window) to recover your field. How far away will the kite glide, . . . if you release the handles entirely?
(Lots further than you ever imagined!!!!)

Don't be afraid to move your feet, the kite and your handles (in longer arm motions) either!
You have to add the energy (in light wind conditions), not a sudden surge, but a steady, smoother application of power.

Go to shorter line lengths and thinner string.

Try a lighter and more delicate grip, so you can feel slight differences.

Examine your kite carefully with an eye towards trimming down the weight, but remember "well-placed mass" isn't necessarily a bad thing. All light and floaty requires constant attention, like trying to steer an oak leaf fluttering in the wind! Modify it too light and it becomes delicate as well. A quick motion or sudden wind increase can mean damage and add'l. expenses incurred.

Local flying conditions and good safe footing are almost more important than the kite choosen. Look for an open flying area, with a place for excellent traction on the soles of your shoes when you need a burst of energy added.

Relax, take some deep breaths, stretch your body and rest occasionally.

Practice enough in tough conditions and they will become your preference, at least that's what's happened with me!

#3 REVflyer

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 03:53 AM

After rereading your post I think I've answered the wrong question. You didn't want to improve the REV's low wind performance, (SORRY) rather seeking an explanation on why the foil flew differently on your REV handles. My bad!

The difference is less drag on the thinner lines, as well as your tuning on the leaders from the REV handles. A foil (or stack of REVs for that matter) would have much more forward drive as you wouldn't normally be backing up or intending to stuff the sail with maximum pressure always. Bleeding some of that pressure off of the bottom/trailing edge is normal flight tuning. The Rev handles probably has more "DOWN" in the tuning, so you're capturing more pressure, that's quite necessary in low wind conditions.

Shorter handles are smoother in transition between forward/reverse + they work better when used with a 2-handed effect technique (one handle starts the action ~ the other stops or partially restricts it). Long throw handles aren't smooth, they are about maximizing the flyer's input thru an extended action. They will reach further, so you don't have to! They allow for dramatic changes, that equates to twitchy for some or as I like to call it responsive. You can dump all the pressure with a quick flick, then snap it back to loaded sail again just as instantly.

#4 Taihapemike

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 03:08 AM

After rereading your post I think I've answered the wrong question. You didn't want to improve the REV's low wind performance, (SORRY) rather seeking an explanation on why the foil flew differently on your REV handles. My bad!

The difference is less drag on the thinner lines, as well as your tuning on the leaders from the REV handles. A foil (or stack of REVs for that matter) would have much more forward drive as you wouldn't normally be backing up or intending to stuff the sail with maximum pressure always. Bleeding some of that pressure off of the bottom/trailing edge is normal flight tuning. The Rev handles probably has more "DOWN" in the tuning, so you're capturing more pressure, that's quite necessary in low wind conditions.

Shorter handles are smoother in transition between forward/reverse + they work better when used with a 2-handed effect technique (one handle starts the action ~ the other stops or partially restricts it). Long throw handles aren't smooth, they are about maximizing the flyer's input thru an extended action. They will reach further, so you don't have to! They allow for dramatic changes, that equates to twitchy for some or as I like to call it responsive. You can dump all the pressure with a quick flick, then snap it back to loaded sail again just as instantly.


Thanks so much- actually you first reply has also been of great help to me too!

But I think I've worked out what the biggest difference is... I think when I put the rev handles on I took better care of my flying style as I didn't know what to expect. Insted of my usual foil flying style of " how much drag can I get from this thing" I started to see how much control I could get. Now I can get it to fly with the heavy handles and lines but far prefer the rev set up ( also makes for quick kite changes when the wind drops )

If there is one thing I have learnt about revs it's that people are so keen to help other flyers- and thats the kinda people this world needs!
Cheers m

#5 REVflyer

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 04:35 AM

Many folks have helped me. I'm just trying to pass on what I've picked-up from them, the same way, .... thru sharing. I've seen stuff I can't replicate too. Some guy from france on the web, . . . with the kite rolled up in the string, unrolling in flight (partially?) Then the kite returns back towards him and he kicks it away again, I think unrolling it the rest of the way. All done indoors! Unbelievable.

I've personally witnessed live
a guy rolling-up a rev2 sized home-built into the lines on the way to catching it, then unrolled it again as he executed the throw. Again unbelievable!!! Every time you think you've seen it all, somebody knocks your socks off and I've been on Rev handles for almost 20 years.

Enjoy sir and thanks for recognizing your own developing skill-set from my weak effort at writing. It's lots easier to have somebody show you in person though, their tricks of simplification on a particularly difficult technique or their tuning opinions. The fastest way to improve your own flight skills is by mixing it up with others. It will cut years of frustration off of the learning curve compared to individually learned skill acquisition, probably save you thousands of dollars in wasted kites you'll never use in the long run too!

When we meet people interested in sport kites or rev flying I advise them to join our WOW kite club and then don't buy any kite for a whole year. By then you'll know what you want, after having explored many different kiting styles and options. Many long time members of our local community have multiple kites and are happy to share. Explore all the different varieties with people who can be helpful and want to do it! Finally the new flier will determine a specific need and order a kite worthy of their own enthusiasm, heck we will all want a turn on it so the sharing continues. Eventually that flier will be the one folks are seeking out for advise or receiving the spectators sent over for lessons.

That's how we grow our passion, share it openly and freely with anyone that approaches or appears interested as a bystander.
-plm

What a world we would have, . . . if everyone thought about sharing their passion, knowledge and possessions with their fellow man!

Edited by REVflyer, 16 February 2011 - 04:37 AM.





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