Jump to content


Photo

in the air again


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#21 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:47 AM

Thanks for the information about lines.

My Ebay titanium tubing arrived from Latvia today.
8mm OD, 1mm wall, bent relatively easily in simple tube bender but should withstand pull of the lines easily.
Shipping costs almost as much as the tubing!

My local fishing shop had identical EVA grips to my stock handles.

My old Rev 1 handles, 11 1/2" handles are 83 grams each
My new 13" 52 grams each.

Thanks to the forum for all the manufacturing variations.
I have enough spare for another 4 sets, if any South Australians are reading this.

Now to get some spectra...

Dave



#22 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:21 AM

Handles almost finished.

Picture shows my original REV 1, 11" handles with dodgy leaders.
Then my newly made titanium handles, 13" and 15"
Unfortunately I do not know what the bend is supposed to be, so I do not know the tip to tip lengths.
Subject to experiment.

The tubing is 8mm external diameter 1mm thick
Easily bent with standard tube bender.
The grips are EVA fishing rod grips, identical in "feel" to the originals.
The end are a wall anchor plug and stainless steel self tapping screw. (As described in forum)
The threads in the first 5 mm were burred down with a dremel so they would not abrade the leader.

After flying today I realise I need some end-caps to protect my thumbs.

But they were beautiful to use.
So light, that the pull of the kite held them forward against my middle finger so I did not need to "grip" the "grips".

Wit the knots on the top leader closer together (1"), I had more fun with the tuning, taking the advice of letting the top out until a Leading Edge launch needed a little encouragement.

I am now waiting on some spectra so I can replace the current ropes I am flying on.

Dave

Attached Thumbnails

  • handles.jpg


#23 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:32 AM

When you get some caps, thread the leaders through them first, then attach the leaders to your handles!! :kid_smartass:Some like caps, others don't use them, whatever works for you!!:) Nice handles!!!!!:)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#24 hyzakite

hyzakite

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 224 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:usa

Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:51 AM

Used titanium tubes from where? Maybe flying at night is easier with glowing handlesPosted Image I wouldn't be pulling your hair out trying to figure out caps quit yetPosted Image

#25 --Pete

--Pete

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 400 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SE Michigan

Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:44 PM

Several people on eBay have titanium tube. It is light and strong. It is also relatively corrosion free. Search for { titanium tubing }

There is one guy from Latvia, and another guy (Titanium Joe) based in Canada and the US who both seem to have quite a variety of sizes.

You probably want an alloy: 3Al-2.5V (also Grade 9) (easier to work) or 6Al-4V (also Grade 5) (a bit harder to work, but stronger). Look up { titanium alloys } on wikipedia.org for more than you want to know about the various alloys.

You probably don't want the CP (Commercially Pure)(Grades 1-4)

Edited by --Pete, 13 January 2011 - 01:03 PM.

--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#26 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 13 January 2011 - 01:26 PM

Pete is absolutely correct.
The Latvian tubing is grade 2 and a criticism could be that it is a little soft.
This does make it easier for the hobbyist.

Dave

#27 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 13 January 2011 - 01:31 PM

I forgot to add.
I purchased a Geiger counter for a trip through the nuclear test sites in south Australia.
Also from eBay in the former USSR.
They have problems with firewood, amongst other things, following Chernobyl
So there are personal counters available.

The tubing is supposed to come from aerospace, but just in case it was from submarines...

It will not be glowing in the dark...but my hair has fallen out

Dave

#28 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:49 PM

I worked out the handle angle issue, and why they were bent in the first place.
In fear of describing the obvious
A closed fist is not at right angles to our arm.
It is kiltered away from our thumb.

The maximum change in relative line lengths, on rotating the handle position, occurs when the attachment points are perpendicular to the lines.
Conversely virtually no change in relative line length occurs when one attachment point is directly behind the other.

So, when I hold the handles in my most comfortable, relaxed, and natural position, the top attachment point should be equidistant from the kite as the bottom attachment point.
To minimize the strain in my arm at this time my forearm would also be pointing directly along the axis of the pull in the lines.
So, if I stand with my forearms horizontal, a weight on the top leader should see it hang down in line with the bottom attachment point.

One consequence of this, for the way I hold the handles, is that the angle becomes less acute as the handle gets longer.

This logic assumes you need the most sensitive control in the neutral position.
If you tend to over control in reverse flight you would have straighter handles :-)
(And, of course, you would need to lengthen the bottom leader to compensate)

Simlar issues wil occur at the kite end of the lines.
These will reference the relative angle of the kite surface to the points that the flying lines effectively attach to the bridal.

And finally, the ratio between the length of the handles and the vertical height of these bridal attachment points will determine the amplification (or reduction) of handle movements with repect to change in the inclination of the sail.
On this theory, the same result could be achieved by lengthening the handles or shortening the vertical distance of the points that the lines attach to the bridal. Although having a range of handles is the simpler solution.

extendable handles would be an interesting optiion but probably overcomplicate things.

Dave

Edited by dave sainsbury, 14 January 2011 - 03:42 PM.


#29 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 15 January 2011 - 03:18 AM

I worked out the handle angle issue, and why they were bent in the first place.
In fear of describing the obvious
A closed fist is not at right angles to our arm.
It is kiltered away from our thumb.

<snip>

Dave


I have been advocating holding the handles 'horizontally' especially in lighter wind as then it is possible to 'pull back' from hands forwards to hands behind the body in one smooth pull without altering the angle of the handles relative to the kite thus avoiding any accidental 'turning' input! I have to say that 'learning this' is not trivial...

In lighter winds a closed fist may not be appropriate anyway! <grins>

Felix

#30 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 15 January 2011 - 04:02 AM

wicked advice
i felt guilty if my handles strayed from vertical but i can see exactly what you mean.
But remind me not to stand too close when you are flying in light wind.
Dave

Edited by dave sainsbury, 15 January 2011 - 01:34 PM.


#31 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:07 AM

wicked advice
i felt guilty if my handles strayed from vertical but i can see exactly what you mean.
Dave


Thanks Dave,

Let that be a lesson to everyone! Don't stick with the orthodoxy...

Go for it... Innovate <grins>

Felix

#32 Baloo

Baloo

    Frequent Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands UK

Posted 16 January 2011 - 01:41 AM

I feel the trick is not to think too much about where the handles are. Just let them be where it feels good / right.

In previously quoted wise worde "Use the force" we are all advocates of "The Dark Side" after all remember. :kid_devlish:

Oh yes, I feel I should add, I have watched Felix fly in light winds, saying he is a bit of a flailer would be putting it lightly. :) I tend to be a very static flyer which means I dont fly well in light winds, or in any other winds realy. :lol:

Edited by Baloo, 16 January 2011 - 01:46 AM.


#33 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,859 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 16 January 2011 - 06:51 AM

I feel the trick is not to think too much about where the handles are.
<snip>
Oh yes, I feel I should add, I have watched Felix fly in light winds, saying he is a bit of a flailer would be putting it lightly.
<snip>


The handles need to be in the 'right place'!

Getting them there may require energetic activity <grins>

Felix

#34 KaoS

KaoS
  • Forum Member
  • 14 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Australia

Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:52 PM

Welcome back to Rev flying Dave!

There are a few of us who fly each Sunday morning at Moana Beach - feel free to come and join in the fun. You won't be the longest distance traveller either, there is another West Beacher who makes the trip regularly.

Glad to hear you got your Revs for a decent cost - not all Aussie sellers have such high prices!
Kevin Sanders

Willunga, South Australia

#35 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:07 AM

Look forward to seeing some other rev heads...although the phrase means somethig different when the Clipsal is on!
When do you fly?
Nice sunset tonight but not much wind.
The SUL is in this photo somewhere

DSC00054.JPG

#36 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:12 PM

Nice thing about the SUL, you don't need a lot of wind to fly it!!!:kid_devlish: Light winds make for great practice conditions!! You can learn a lot about your kite, while you learn more about flying in winds that are less than "perfect"!!:)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#37 kitecowboy

kitecowboy

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 365 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta

Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:50 PM

I would not know dyneema from spectra.
Current line is some sort of heavy duty braid.

I guess good qualities are light weight strength and no stretch.
Spider wire fishing braid would sound good but would probably decapitate bystanders

Dave



with a bit of practice you can decapitate with most any line. ;)
Cowboy, rocks in your pockets couldn't hurt.

#38 RevWizard

RevWizard

    Rev Guru and Historian

  • Forum Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe & North America

Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:18 PM

snip...
Spider wire fishing braid would sound good but would probably decapitate bystanders

Dave

Spider wire is a different weave. It is designed for fishing not kiting. I hear tell it also stretches a lot due to that weave.
I am not saying it can't be used. It is simply not as good as line woven for multi-line kite flying.
If I recall correctly it is also colored green or something like that which makes it more difficult to see in the grass, thus a being more of a hazard.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#39 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 28 January 2011 - 04:50 PM

Flame shields up.

You have all been very tolerant, so please excuse this appalingly often asked newbie question.
Is it possible to construct a rough guidline for configurations in different wind speeds.
Or are the variables of technique, intention of flying and preference too great to ever reach agreement.
Or are there simply too many configurations...I would avoid combination setups.
It would just be fabulously useful for a newcomer to say ...my typical windspeed is...and then see a selection of possible configurations.

eg

Rev 1, 4-wrap, 3-20 mph
4 wrap+SLE, 3-25 mph

Rev 1.5, 3 wrap+SLE, 4 - 20

Full vent, ????, 12-25

Rev 2, 3 wrap, 6-35

Flame shields down

Dave

Edited by dave sainsbury, 29 January 2011 - 11:46 PM.


#40 Baloo

Baloo

    Frequent Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands UK

Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:58 PM

If you go to the Rev home site there are various suggested wind speeds for most combinations of sail and frame.

Just look up the various sails and the rod / wind speeds are on there.

Oh yes, and the reason I know this, I asked exactly the same question a few Years ago :)

Edited by Baloo, 28 January 2011 - 10:59 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users