Jump to content


Photo

in the air again


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 01 January 2011 - 10:41 PM

After 15 years leave of absence, I am flying again.

Gave myself an SUL and mid vented B for Christmas, thanks to an American friend.
Used my old 10", rev 1 handles at first.

These are some photos trying out some handles my father in law made
17" handles, talk about twitchy!
I performed some stunts I have never seen before and would prefer not to see again.
But the kite recovered beautifully in mid air.

If only I could remember to pull on the brake lines rather than let them go when it is hurtling leading edge down into the sand.

Plenty of catching up to do.

The wind built up over the afternoon so both sails got an airing.

Dave

Attached Thumbnails

  • page2.jpg
  • page3.jpg
  • page4.jpg
  • page5.jpg
  • page6.jpg


#2 --Pete

--Pete

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 401 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SE Michigan

Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:30 AM

Just abandon any idea of Up and Down when you work the handles; get it into your head that the handles control Forward and Back. Releasing the brake ends of the handles does not make the kite go Up, but Forward.

Likewise, differential movements of the handles cause CW and CCW rotation, NOT (repeat NOT) left or right motion.

Any time I hear of someone causing a kite to do MORE of the wrong action, I suspect they are thinking of Up/Down and Right/Left, rather than Forward/Back and CW/CCW.

BTW, the CW/CCW concept is very important with 2-line kites as well -- maybe even more important since they don't have 'brakes'.

Nice photos -- especially the layout.

Edited by --Pete, 02 January 2011 - 10:08 AM.

--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#3 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:47 PM

yep, exactly my problem.
When I last flew, in retrospect, my break lines were too slack so I gave up on anything but powering the kite through the sky at altitude.
As a result I completely trained my muscle brain into forward is down, backward is up.

Self taught is always a danger.
It took me 2 years to "unlearn" Basic programming.
3 years to drop my wrist and barre an F cord rather than wrap my hand around the neck and use my thumb.

Always launched from LE up position.

Now I am spending half my flying time with the leading edge down.
Gingerly lifting the kite off the beach and then putting it down again.

My next difficulty is left and right in the inverted position
As it lifts off the sand, LE down, my instinctive is to pull my right hand back to slide the kite right.

It is excellent doing battle with your own mind.
The distraction for daly life is absolute.

i am spending y spare time scouring the archives to see what other bad habits I need to fix.
Watched all the videos which were not available 10 years ago.
Got my thumbs up onto the tops of the handles with great improvement in control.

I have ordered some titanium tube from Latvia! to make some new handles.
The 17'' from my father in law are solid stainless steel and far too heavy.
And 17'' is too long for anything but the lightest winds.

Thyanks for your kind advice.
My wife is a professional photographer.
helenrobertsphotography.com

Dave

#4 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:30 PM

At the risk of public humiliation - make sure all your lines are of equal length!!:kid_smartass: If there's a difference, make them all the same!! Unequal lines make for some very interesting results!! :kid_cussing:

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#5 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 03 January 2011 - 06:35 PM

That information would have been helpful a week ago :-)

They were out about an inch and half left to right.
And 4 inches top to bottom.
I have now learned the tops stretch more...
So I have rotated top to bottom and equalized lines by the droop method....no ageist comments please.

Maybe you could advise at what sort of wind speed or leading edge curve I should consider slipping an extra rod into the leading edge of the vented B.
I have already been advised to tighten the bungees.

Dave



#6 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:19 PM

In addition to this last question I should probably mention I have only a 3 wrap frame for the 1.5

I am flying the vented sail on 3 wrap which seems great at 8 to 15 mph but starts to flex ?significantly? over 15 mph
I do not have a 4 wrap for a 1.5, but I do have a 2 wrap from the SUL, that may help stiffen the leading edge.

I am not so much concerned at snapping a rod..the verticals apparently...

It is more concern at stretching the sail if it "cups" too much.
Or making it harder for me to learn the basic manoeuvres.

Dave

#7 REVflyer

REVflyer

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,337 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germantown Maryland

Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:56 AM

if you add a big dose of DOWN in your handle tuning it will slow down and have much less pull on the kite. If you added enough DOWN you could tune out the forward drive entirely. Fly like that for ten minutes and then slowly add more UP until it's more controlled. If a piece of plywood can never get square to the wind it has no significant air pressure either. So if you can't pull the leading edge up to square (or beyond) you can create that same effect with your kite.

When the lines are singing loudly and the frame is flexing significantly, even away from the center of the window it's time to stiffen-up the frame.

If you want to flail, then leave the lighter weight sticks in and use more of the window's edge as your flying space. Work on dumping all the pressure and then snapping it back again, try some slack line stuff or an axel, enjoy that burst of energy when you need it by flying back towards the center.

#8 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 04 January 2011 - 11:07 AM

Double stuffing your LE will make it stiffer, but I would rather use my 4 wrap for higher winds!! :kid_smartass: Use the 2 wrap to lower the wind range on your vented as well as using it in your SUL!!:kid_content: Revflyer is right about tuning out the drive, if you don't have leaders on your handles, make some!!:kid_devlish: There's info in other posts on how to do that!!!:) Being able to adjust your kite to the conditions will make it so much more fun to fly!!:lol: You're on the right path, asking questions from those who have experience, will greatly help you learn faster!!:)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#9 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:30 PM

2 wrap in a vented.
There is something I would not have considered.
Thanks again

#10 sirrom

sirrom

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 167 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 05 January 2011 - 10:12 PM

2 wrap in a vented.
There is something I would not have considered.
Thanks again


I fly with Race Rods in my vented and standard all the time :)

Not sure the last time I put anything else in them :sly:
BRETT
(Formerly sirrom2000)
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image

#11 Kitelife

Kitelife

    Forum Guru

  • Forum Host
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,936 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, OR USA

Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:56 AM

Dave, do you have leaders on the top of your handles, effectively extending the top lines by 6"-8"?

In talking about the slack in your bottom lines, might be one of the issues...

Lots of topics here about "tuning" and "leaders" to chew on. ;)

John Barresi

johnbarresi.com | kitelife.com | learnkites.com | teamiquad.comkitemap.org
youtube.com/kitelife | facebook.com/kitelifemagazine | KiteLife on Google+

 

"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

My full list of kite articles - kitelife.com/author/john-barresi
 

Please reward posts that are helpful, give positive reputation by clicking on "Like This" button on the right side of each post.


#12 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:17 AM

If you got a package with your "B", you should have leaders on your handles!! :) If you only have handles that came with the SLE, you'll need to make some yourself!!:) There's plenty of info on the forum about that!!!:)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#13 beach

beach

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,858 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:El Cajon Ca.

Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:52 PM

Dave I'll let the experts guide you in set up but I'll just welcome you back............. BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#14 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:58 AM

Dave I'll let the experts guide you in set up but I'll just welcome you back............. BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


Don't let him fool you, probably forgot more than some of us know!!! :kid_devlish:

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#15 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 08 January 2011 - 12:16 AM

Thanks again for all your advice.
Yes I have leaders on the top of my handles, they are visible in the second photo.
The interval is about 2" which is a bit too much I think.
I like the idea of tuning each time I fly.
Experimenting with power versus brake.
Of forward versus backward is probably a better head space.

My days of thundering into the sand are now over, thanks to lengthening the forward lines.

Rev kites are so expensive in Australia a b series is $560

A friend in America packaged an SUL sail and 2 wrap rods
A mid vented rev B with 3wrap rods
And a couple of rods to repair my old rev 1
All this, with postage was still less than a single b series kite!
We are a limited market and individual accessories are hard to find.

I already had handles and some dodgy lines from the olden days and did not think to include them in the package.
I am making up another shopping list

So, what lines do I need
I like 75 foot.
Do I need a light wind set and a strong wind set?

The titanium tubing is on it's way from Latvia for mynnew handles :-)
on your advice I might order 4 wrap rods for the mid vent.

I am not sure what race rods are, or whether a novice would benefit.

Of course I would like a zen and a vented model of those kites with the eyes....

I am stuck in a caravan park with 30 mph winds too scared to stretch my sails, in 35C heat.
My good wife is off fishing

So i am left with my iPad for company, and some friends, probably snowed in, on the other side of the globe.

Dave

#16 lylenc

lylenc
  • Forum Member
  • 38 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Walla Walla, WA

Posted 08 January 2011 - 12:55 PM

For 30 mph winds: Vented Rev II

Relatively light pull and venting dampens inputs so not too squirrely yet retain speed. Can add more brake (lengthen top or shorten bottom) if too fast for you.

Edited by lylenc, 08 January 2011 - 01:04 PM.

"Just One More"
Craig
Walla Walla, WA

#17 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:47 PM

An interval of 2" is too much, you should work for something in the 3/4" or 1/2" range!!:kid_content: Top leaders should be about as long as the gap from top of handle to bottom of handle, maybe a little shorter!! Shorter knot differences mean finer changes in line length, resulting in more control over tuning!!:) Race rods are a little different - they weigh like a 2 wrap, are strong like a 3 wrap, and have a different flex altogether!! Line lengths - up to you and where you fly!! 75' is good, are they 90#? A set of 120' is good for groups, have some 150# for your Rev1, maybe some 50' or 75' x50# for light winds??

Edited by stroke victim, 08 January 2011 - 03:53 PM.

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#18 dave sainsbury

dave sainsbury
  • Forum Member
  • 29 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:adelaide south australia

Posted 09 January 2011 - 04:18 AM

I would not know dyneema from spectra.
Current line is some sort of heavy duty braid.

I guess good qualities are light weight strength and no stretch.
Spider wire fishing braid would sound good but would probably decapitate bystanders

Dave

#19 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:30 AM

Dyneema is a slightly stretchier line than spectra, but will do, OK! :kid_brooding: The fishing line is only safe when by yourself and nobody around!!:kid_brooding:Stick to spectra if you can, least stretch and creep, slick in wraps, easy to maintain!!:) And usually safe around other fliers!!! :)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#20 RevWizard

RevWizard

    Rev Guru and Historian

  • Forum Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,462 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe & North America

Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:05 PM

Dyneema and Spectra are identical in chemistry, and only minutely different in construct quality consistency.

Both are ultra high molecular weight polyethelene arranged as generally paralel fibers, thus the qualities of super slick gliding surface, and no knot retention. Both fibers will not accept dye and are white, they must be woven with another yarn in order to retain a knot, or accept color in the cord or web.
The difference, between Dyneema and Spectra is this, Spectra fibers are observed to be less consistent as shipped by the factory.
The two factories:
Spectra is made by Honeywell, in Colonial Heights, VA
Dyneema is made by DSM in Heerlen, Netherlands.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users