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Progressive stack lines


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#1 SynTaks

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:21 PM

Sorry if this has been asked/explained before. I'm terrible at poking through and finding what I need, so I just ask...lol

I am wanting to make a progressive stack. Rev II, Rev 1.5, and Rev I...

I was going to just order the stacking lines from A Wind of Change, because they list them there, but after a month of waiting for a reply to the email I sent him (poke ...poke ... poke) I thought I'd just ask this before I actually tried ordering them.

The way he has it listed on his site is as follows:

4 1/2 Foot Stack lines - EXP, 1.5 SLE, Rev II

5 Foot Stack Lines - Rev 1

Rev Speed Series - Super Sonic, Shockwave, Blast

As I said, I'm doing a Rev II, Rev 1.5, and Rev I.

Do I need 4.5-foot lines between the Rev II and Rev 1.5 and then 5-foot lines between the Rev 1.5 and Rev I? Or do I just use 4.5-foot lines all the way through? 5-foot lines all the way through?

I didn't want to call Ben to bug him about this. He's a busy guy.

Also, what length are the progressive speed series stack lines? I assume that, because of the amount of pull we noticed with just stacking 2 B-series, that the pull from a progressive Shockwave, Blast, Blast 2/4 will be quite a bit more than just a Blast 2/4, so I was thinking about letting Syn play with that idea...

Thanks in advance...

--TaK

Edited by SynTaks, 15 December 2010 - 07:26 PM.

Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#2 stroke survivor

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:45 PM

If you're gonna order from Kent at AWOC, ask for a set of progressive stacking lines, and explain what kites you plan to use! I've ordered from him before and if you explain what you're gonna do, he'll make sure to get you the "right" stuff! Send him a PM or use the 800# that he has on his website!! You won't be sorry!!!:)

Edited by stroke victim, 15 December 2010 - 07:47 PM.

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#3 SynTaks

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:24 PM

If you're gonna order from Kent at AWOC, ask for a set of progressive stacking lines, and explain what kites you plan to use! I've ordered from him before and if you explain what you're gonna do, he'll make sure to get you the "right" stuff! Send him a PM or use the 800# that he has on his website!! You won't be sorry!!!:)


Haven't gotten an answer on the phone and he hasn't responded to PM or email. I figure he's just really busy.

Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#4 RevWizard

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:30 PM

Haven't gotten an answer on the phone and he hasn't responded to PM or email. I figure he's just really busy.

Kent is on this forum very regularly. He will respond.
As for 800#, it is a bit of an overkill. You really don't need anything stronger then your control lines.

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#5 SynTaks

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:37 PM

Kent is on this forum very regularly. He will respond.
As for 800#, it is a bit of an overkill. You really don't need anything stronger then your control lines.


Now I remember... AWoC 800 number won't let Alaskans call it...lol

Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#6 awindofchange

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:03 PM

I must apologize for not getting back to you, I always try to reply to e-mails right away. I somehow must have missed your e-mail or it somehow got deleted because this is the first I have heard of it. I normally do not check my PM's as I always forget to check to see if there are any messages. If it doesn't pop up in my face then I forget to check them. I will try to be more punctual on this.

Anyways, we do have the stack lines in stock. Most of the time we just use the standard 4.5 ft. stack lines on all three kites (2 sets needed). We have had one person who used the 5 ft. stack lines on the Rev 1 and it worked perfectly so either way you wanted to go shouldn't be an issue.

I would be more than happy to get a set up to you in Alaska. We have been having some issues with our 800 number and as soon as our contract comes up we will be changing companies so hopefully it will get better.

Give me a call to order because we can send you the stack lines through normal postage (envelope) instead of package freight. This will save you a ton on shipping costs.

Again, sorry for not you having to wait so long to get an answer to your question.

#7 stroke survivor

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:21 AM

Glad you are now in touch with Kent, his service is great and I know it will be correct!!:)

John: I meant his 800 phone number!:)

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#8 antman

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 01:00 PM

800# what are u pulling a truck??for a progressive stack youll need nore more then 150# 5 foot lines.. 5 per kite i made my own for my home made progressive.. (all revs) As a poor man of the kiting world i did this so i could have one..

Edited by antman, 16 December 2010 - 01:01 PM.

GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#9 awindofchange

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 02:34 PM

he was referring to our 1-800 number (800#) - not 800 lb line.

#10 SynTaks

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 03:34 PM

he was referring to our 1-800 number (800#) - not 800 lb line.


LOL ... Yeah ... What he said.

Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#11 --Pete

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:07 PM

800#? Well, I've broken stack lines of 500# before, and that was with little kites about 18" across. When you make serious stacks the tension gets serious, too.

You just have to anchor a pulley to something solid with 10' of rope through it. Attach the flying lines to the ends of the rope. Hook lanyards to the ends of the rope and get flying. The anchor takes the main pull and the lanyards let you steer the kite(s).

Stay out of line with any part of the system because if (when!) something breaks, things will go flying at extreme speed. I have heard cracks that imply speeds in excess of 700mph (Mach 1). Don't use wrist straps unless they have weaker break-away links in line. No sense losing an arm just to have fun flying.

(Yes, I know 800# was a phone number reference.)
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#12 stroke survivor

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 07:47 PM

What were you stacking to break 500# lines??Posted Image If something needs that strong a setup, I'll be glad to keep out of the way!!!:unsure:

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

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#13 --Pete

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:07 PM

It was 13 Rainbows. A fairly small diamond kite (16" x 20"?) with an aircraft aluminum frame, sparred along the leading edges and spine plus a spreader. I broke the train lines in a fresh breeze of maybe 20-25 mph.

k-02-36-k.jpg

Here is Eva (5'9" and fairly sturdy) leaning back into a gentle breeze of perhaps 10 mph with only 7 Rainbows. You can see her hair is barely disturbed.

k-01-12-k.jpg

I would estimate that a ground pass through the center of the wind might make 50 or 60 mph. You don't want spectators running around when flying these on braided Kevlar™. You will notice I am standing well back from Eva.

Edited by --Pete, 16 December 2010 - 09:10 PM.

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#14 hyzakite

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 05:31 PM

I think I must be missing something about Progressive Stack Lines Posted Image My thoughts are that because the connection points are the same length only at the center of a progressive stack, rev 2 connected to a rev 1.5 connected to a rev 1. Then wouldn't the 6 other stack lines need to be slightly longer to adjust for the slight diagonal connection points? Unless the center point isn't used to connect a progressive stack.

#15 --Pete

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:26 PM

You just have to anchor a pulley to something solid with 10' of rope through it. Attach the flying lines to the ends of the rope. Hook lanyards to the ends of the rope and get flying. The anchor takes the main pull and the lanyards let you steer the kite(s).


I ran across one of my rigs for hard-pulling dual line kites. The tiles are 12" square; the rope is 1/2" braided nylon, the pulley is designed for the main sheet on a fair-sized sailboat. On this one I made the lanyards out of the main rope.

IMG_1269s.jpg

Hook the kite lines to the loops at the left; anchor the pulley; put the tips of your fingers through the loops at the right. Now you can fly a stunt kite pulling several hundred pounds. If the anchor should pull loose or break, it flies away from you, popping the loops off your fingers as it goes.



--Pete
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#16 --Pete

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:53 PM

I think I must be missing something about Progressive Stack Lines Posted Image My thoughts are that because the connection points are the same length only at the center of a progressive stack, rev 2 connected to a rev 1.5 connected to a rev 1. Then wouldn't the 6 other stack lines need to be slightly longer to adjust for the slight diagonal connection points? Unless the center point isn't used to connect a progressive stack.


Lay the widths and separations of the kites out on the floor with masking tape and measure. I think you may be right, but the difference is probably small for 4.5' stack lines. It would tend to let the center of farthest kite(s) bow a bit away from you. If you planned to stack a lot of kites, each progressively larger, the effect would be cumulative. By laying it out, you can adjust the lengths to fit the actual distances.

One thing to note about progressive stacks: the angle of pull that you have noted on the outer stack lines means the the farther/larger kites will be trying to rip the closer/smaller kites in half -- more likely just pull the end-caps off or pull the spar joints apart. If they can resist being pulled in half, the closer/smaller kites will be trying to crush/collapse the farther/larger kites. This effect will be magnified by shorter stack lines, and lessened by longer stack lines. Draw the rig out on paper, to scale, and look at which way the stack lines are pulling. Just drawing the leading edge spar and the outer stack lines should show you what is happening.



--Pete
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#17 hyzakite

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 07:03 AM

Lay the widths and separations of the kites out on the floor with masking tape and measure. I think you may be right, but the difference is probably small for 4.5' stack lines. It would tend to let the center of farthest kite(s) bow a bit away from you. If you planned to stack a lot of kites, each progressively larger, the effect would be cumulative. By laying it out, you can adjust the lengths to fit the actual distances.

One thing to note about progressive stacks: the angle of pull that you have noted on the outer stack lines means the the farther/larger kites will be trying to rip the closer/smaller kites in half -- more likely just pull the end-caps off or pull the spar joints apart. If they can resist being pulled in half, the closer/smaller kites will be trying to crush/collapse the farther/larger kites. This effect will be magnified by shorter stack lines, and lessened by longer stack lines. Draw the rig out on paper, to scale, and look at which way the stack lines are pulling. Just drawing the leading edge spar and the outer stack lines should show you what is happening.





So much for the idea of a progressive stack with custom b2, jb pro and a zen kites. It's just not worth trying the "what will happen if I" approach on those kites. Time to read deeper into progressive stacks. I can picture the bending, pulling apart, crushing and collapseing. However with my luck, there would 14 rods showering down to earth and a ball of material at the end of 4 linesPosted Image

#18 Jeepster

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 08:30 AM

So much for the idea of a progressive stack with custom b2, jb pro and a zen kites. It's just not worth trying the "what will happen if I" approach on those kites. Time to read deeper into progressive stacks. I can picture the bending, pulling apart, crushing and collapseing. However with my luck, there would 14 rods showering down to earth and a ball of material at the end of 4 linesPosted Image


The best advice I can give you is to call Kent at A Wind of Change. He is not only extremely knowledgeable about stacking Revs, but readily shares that knowledge ... and is a pleasure to converse with.

Cheers,
Tom

#19 hyzakite

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 09:12 AM

The best advice I can give you is to call Kent at A Wind of Change. He is not only extremely knowledgeable about stacking Revs, but readily shares that knowledge ... and is a pleasure to converse with.

Cheers,
Tom



I can try to call their 800 number again but that is a hard number to make contact on, maybe I'll try the other number on the site.

Mike

#20 stroke survivor

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 10:28 AM

If you can't reach Kent by phone, PM him!! Personally wouldn't include a Zen in the stack, flies completely different than the others you included in your stack!!:wacko: It also has a lower wind range!! You'll see that Rev offers a stack that has a 2, 1.5, and 1 in that order!! I've also seen 2 kite stacks that use a vented in front of a full sail!! :)

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