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B-Series Mod???


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#1 FlyWithMe

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 01:32 PM

Ok so I'm getting ready to go Treasure Island for the festival and looking at my B-Series rainbow color full vent kite hanging on my wall. I'm thinking man do I need to get a no vent and and a mid vent for the festival? So I shop around and the best I can do is $299 each for the two kites.

Well it hits me..... I have some 1/2 inch wide velcro that has a very strong holding power, leftover from another project, what if I sewed this onto the kite around the vents and made some panels to fit over the vents. I could switch venting on my kite for any wind condition along with different rod choices of course. I think the added weight would be nothing and the verticle support provided by the velcro strips with or without panels added should benefit flite performance.

I would place it on the front so that the wind pressure would help hold the panels on.

before I do this though my question is has anyone tried this idea yet? If so what happened? If not do you think it's plausible.

Mike

#2 Watty

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:04 PM

Ok so I'm getting ready to go Treasure Island for the festival and looking at my B-Series rainbow color full vent kite hanging on my wall. I'm thinking man do I need to get a no vent and and a mid vent for the festival? So I shop around and the best I can do is $299 each for the two kites.

Well it hits me..... I have some 1/2 inch wide velcro that has a very strong holding power, leftover from another project, what if I sewed this onto the kite around the vents and made some panels to fit over the vents. I could switch venting on my kite for any wind condition along with different rod choices of course. I think the added weight would be nothing and the verticle support provided by the velcro strips with or without panels added should benefit flite performance.

I would place it on the front so that the wind pressure would help hold the panels on.

before I do this though my question is has anyone tried this idea yet? If so what happened? If not do you think it's plausible.

Mike


I haven't tried it myself, but I have seen some duelies that are outfitted like this. It seemed to work out okay for them. So, yes it is plausible.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#3 RevWizard

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:26 PM

Ok so I'm getting ready to go Treasure Island for the festival and looking at my B-Series rainbow color full vent kite hanging on my wall. I'm thinking man do I need to get a no vent and and a mid vent for the festival? So I shop around and the best I can do is $299 each for the two kites.

Well it hits me..... I have some 1/2 inch wide velcro that has a very strong holding power, leftover from another project, what if I sewed this onto the kite around the vents and made some panels to fit over the vents. I could switch venting on my kite for any wind condition along with different rod choices of course. I think the added weight would be nothing and the verticle support provided by the velcro strips with or without panels added should benefit flite performance.

I would place it on the front so that the wind pressure would help hold the panels on.

before I do this though my question is has anyone tried this idea yet? If so what happened? If not do you think it's plausible.

Mike

I did this when I created the first vented REV. It works, however it has one big negative. The Velcro does add quite a bit of weight, then you have the panels over the vents to add to that. Then you have the extra weight of screening in the vents. You are really better off with a separate sail for each wind.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#4 btbt

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:13 PM

Hey Mike,
pm sent....
It may help....
bt

#5 FlyWithMe

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:33 PM

I did this when I created the first vented REV. It works, however it has one big negative. The Velcro does add quite a bit of weight, then you have the panels over the vents to add to that. Then you have the extra weight of screening in the vents. You are really better off with a separate sail for each wind.


Shouldn't be any more weight than say a keychain camera or a couple of tails.

#6 RevWizard

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:51 PM

Shouldn't be any more weight than say a keychain camera or a couple of tails.


My information is from a real life experience of already doing it along with almost 20 years of flying REVs.
As I said in other words it adds weight.
You will really notice the extra weight in low winds.

One thing I did not try was using maybe 6 small tabs of Velcro on each panel versus all the way around the panels.
I thought of a tab in each corner and a tab on both of the long sides thus letting the wind push the removable panel in contact with the sail.
This would make it lighter however I am not sure how well it will fly.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#7 --Pete

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:21 PM

One thing to note. The lift of a wing or sail is based on the difference in pressure from front to back. Even tiny leaks can reduce that pressure differential. This is why big street banners have those little 'c'-shaped cutouts; even small paths for air to get from front to back make a big difference in lift. If I was 'patching' a vented sail, I would want really air-tight patches.

Formula-1 cars use a system called F-duct that can feed a little air onto the low-pressure side of the wings. This reduces the down-force and drag enough to give an increase in speed equal to several hundred horsepower on straightaways (where speed is more important than traction).

Edited by --Pete, 15 December 2010 - 06:27 PM.

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#8 Jim Foster

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:23 PM

Sand loves Velcro.

Save your pennies and get a non vented "B". Comes with a 2 and 3 wrap frame for medium and light winds.

You won't be sorry.

Edited by Jim Foster, 15 December 2010 - 06:25 PM.

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#9 cadguy

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:36 PM

Hey kids,
It will fly well. I did this 2 years ago. My panels are made of black Orcon with the 6 velcro tabs just as John mentions. Have only replaced 2 of the 12 velcro tabs on the sail so far. I also put a 1/4" hem on the panels that is just rubber cemented down for added durbility. Make sure you fully assemble the rev to get a proper measurment of the vent panel to make your pattern.
I, too, will be going the Treasure Island event again. Any one is welcome to give it a test fly.

Dayton David

IKE - 180GO!

p/s : the mid-vent sail became available about a year after I bought the full-vent.

Attached Thumbnails

  • full-vent panels.JPG
  • panel.JPG
  • panel off.JPG
  • panel on.JPG
  • panel_corner.JPG
  • panel_peel.JPG

Edited by cadguy, 15 December 2010 - 06:43 PM.

"Dayton" David Kovacs

ike_member.png and 180or.png

PIGS aloft

#10 awindofchange

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:14 PM

Ok, how about this idea. Instead of velcro, just sew together two panels of mesh weave like a "mesh pocket" with a small enough opening on the top of one of the panels so that you can slide in a piece of reinforced mylar or ripstop poly. That way you can pull the film out for stronger winds but slide the film in for lighter winds. The mesh will weigh a fraction of the Velcro, won't attract sand and when the panels are out, looks just like a factory Rev.

What'cha think? :)

#11 REVflyer

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:03 AM

My information is from a real life experience of already doing it along with almost 20 years of flying REVs.
As I said in other words it adds weight.
You will really notice the extra weight in low winds.

One thing I did not try was using maybe 6 small tabs of Velcro on each panel versus all the way around the panels.
I thought of a tab in each corner and a tab on both of the long sides thus letting the wind push the removable panel in contact with the sail.
This would make it lighter however I am not sure how well it will fly.



I concur completely with Doctor John,
but this is a great modification if you're willing to give up that low end performance. My Buddy Dave Ashworth has one, as tricked out as is possible, with three mini vents on each wing. The covers are "captured w/velcro" but not entirely surrounded by it. Build a little overlapped two layer edge into the parameter of the sail and insert the cover underneath, then hold in place w/ small pieces of velcro.

YES, it does add a ton of weight, (cover + venting alone) but the other side of that is the incredible versatility it offers as conditions flux thru-out the day. He sets up one kite and laughs as the rest of us constantly try to adjust or change our sails entirely. A couple of weeks ago winds ranged from a steady 10 to gusts of 44 mph. His kite was most excellent, but so also are his skills as a kite builder. I've know him for a dozen years and he has never bought a kite. His indoor innovations are the most highly recognized within our little kite club's circle.

He also created a set of "active vents" (as in all modifications though, you gain something and you give something up too!) Dayton Nations 2003 I think. It had micro-carbon rods sewn into sleeves that were tied at opposite ends. When a big gust came along they snapped open like the eyes blinking. The problem is all the yank & spank is effectively removed as well. Who wants all smooth an graceful at all times?,... NOT ME! I entered this kite as a proxy, the year Lam Hoac won Grand National Champ with a sport kite. Kurtiss Mitchell was also there with a 3-pack of Windfire Plasma Flames. Dave beat that rig for 2nd place, but Lam's efforts were simply extraordinary.

If you have a spare sail laying around, that you can ruin, I'd try mods on that one first.

If you wanted to reach dave for more detailed information (either option), he's on our wow club's web-site as the secretary. He doesn't frequent this site, nor directly copy anything, wouldn't offer dimensions/plans, but might be darn useful for a couple of guidance planning phone calls. He could write a book, as he never does the same thing twice. Unfortunately it can be hard to tune his efforts, as too many variables are entered at once, to point at one thing and say "that's why it has such over-steer!" When we fly pairs together I just stick him on one of my kites, it's easier than chasing a unique set of tuning efforts for bridles on each of his kites to match the standard from the factory. 32-1/2 inch spars = what the frack!?!!, Nothing standardized ever fits, french bridle for example, or new Zen tubes!

geeky-engineer types are all the same

#12 REVflyer

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:06 AM

the mesh is the heavier part!

#13 FlyWithMe

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 02:23 PM

I, too, will be going the Treasure Island event again. Any one is welcome to give it a test fly.

Dayton David

IKE - 180GO!

p/s : the mid-vent sail became available about a year after I bought the full-vent.


Not sure when I'll be there or if every day cause I got family flying in from NYC on Jan 14-17 go figure. But I would love to give it a try. Will look for ya on the beach.

Mike




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