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Which Rev to fly in tough conditions?


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#1 kwmf

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:01 AM

Well, I finally got to fly my new mid-vents since my exam is done (I'm a certified CCNA now) and the weather has (FINALLY) decided to play along ... but the flight has led me to a new question.

I got the mid-vents because I found I often had wind that fluctuated such that the full vent was either under powered or sufficiently powered - basically averaging around the point where the full sail and full vent meet. I thought the mid-vent was the perfect solution to mother natures cruel trick, but it turns out she had another one up her sleeve just waiting for my mid to arrive Posted Image

When I got to the field the wind felt like it was that annoying in between wind that I got my mid for. Since it seemed promising and wanting to keep my comparisons consistant, I whip out my handy dandy wind speed meter to confirm. Sure enough, it's fluctuating either side of the 20km/h (12mph) mark that I found to be my handy dividing line between the full sail and full vent. It's a bit gusty when the wind jumps up but I decide to put my faith in the race rods surviving the stronger gusts in the interest of keeping the lower end going - I figure if it's a problem I can always land and switch frames to 3 wraps.

So I setup my girlfriend and my mids on race rods and 80 feet of 90# line and take flight. It didn't take long for us both to experience time when the mid was losing power and you would have to use some fancy footwork to power up again. Then there were other times the mid was very well powered up - mostly not enough for me to worry about the frame, but there was the odd occasion. We never just fell from the sky, but we did get that sudden loss of power where you're doing something and you just start sinking - sometimes you couldn't even hover in those lulls.

After flying for some time anyway, she decided to work on her tan for a bit and I decided I wanted to fly my Blast for a bit. I pulled out the wind meter again and watched it for a couple of minutes this time and saw the wind was actually going down to 12km/h (7mph) sometimes and other times jumping to 28km/h (17mph) or higher. Yes we were inland, but we don't normally get fluctuations THAT big.

My question is what would be the best setup to fly in conditions like this?

The way I see it there are 2 choices - Either the mid vent and deal with low wind conditions, of full sail and deal with the high wind conditions ... but I'm not sure which is the smart choice here. If one were to go full sail, I'm not sure what you would frame it with, since the gusts would seem to demand a pretty strong frame for the full sail - I'd even consider the SLE there. I don't think vented sails deal with the 'low wind' conditions very well (at least not at my skill level), so that makes it a tricky choice.

I didn't have time to mess with multiple configurations, so I'm hoping to draw on the experience here.

Steven

#2 REVflyer

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 04:28 AM

full sail, 3 wraps
or
mid-vent and race frame

give ground in a sudden gust, add energy is a sudden lull

For many years we only flew full sails, that's all the was! I keep thinking of all the choices now and wonder which was more fun. One kite that I flew regardless of the conditions, or so many I spend all day trying to get the perfect feel with different rigs and equipment

#3 bartman

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 10:08 AM

I'd have flown my mid through all of that and not even worry.

I have flown the vent in much higher winds with a 4 wrap which pushed the comfort level, but no issues were experienced.

Bart

#4 stroke survivor

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 10:52 AM

I think you've hit it on the head here - go with what your strengths are! :) If your low wind skills are weak, choose the full! If you have trouble with high winds, go midvent! Framing depends on winds, just keep it strong enough to handle the highs!! Unless you want to work on your weaknesses.......?:)

wayne from portland
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#5 John F

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:42 PM

Numbers numbers snoobbers. Just try. I think everyone is different. You can probably fly a midvent down to 5 on 50 lb lines but it will be underpowered. Some people like that. You will have a sweet spot for each kite. I usually get my mid out about 6 or 7 cause I like the way I fly it. I will go up to about 14 or 15 then to full vent or switch to 3 wrap. I like my kites a little underpowered. But that is just me.

John



#6 quaa714

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 06:10 PM

I agree with John......too much time is spent worrying/thinking about thresholds and limits. Fly the kite and find your comfort zone. When pushing the extremes at either end, work on the mechanics that help fly that particular condition.

Less thinking, more flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by quaa714, 22 November 2010 - 06:10 PM.

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#7 kwmf

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 11:45 PM

The question is not so much about what numbers to fly what, and more about what to fly when the 'numbers' vary a great deal from moment to moment

#8 quaa714

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 01:37 AM

The question is not so much about what numbers to fly what, and more about what to fly when the 'numbers' vary a great deal from moment to moment


Again, I refer back to my previous response.
Fly the kite you feel you will need to get the ball rolling. Then, when you get to the extremes that "vary a great deal from moment to moment" at either end of the window, WORK IT!
Again........don't focus on the number whether it be from moment to moment or in that awesome sweet spot, fly what you've got up and fly to your weakest skill set to improve that skill set.

Everyone looks good when flying the sweet breezes but learning to light wind or mega gust wind fly or the lulls and gusts in between is acquired and is born out of the days you speak of.
Less number crunching and concern for variations equals more flying, be it light, lulls, sweet, gusty or mega winds!!!!!

YMMV!

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#9 badinfluence

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 07:40 AM

hey KWMF, i love all of your posts and we have answered a few of each others questions before which you have been a big help. After reading through the all of the replys i have come to realize that you may have the same disease as me. I have become a huge rev addict and i believe that we now simply have too many choices to choose from. My rev flying seems to have taken a turn for the worse and it now feels like an example of going fishing......

asking myself,,, how strong are the winds today? what linesest should i use? what pound test will be best? what handle lenght today? which rev should i fly,,1.5, Zen, B series, etc.? what rods should i use???? on and on.......

sorta sounds like which rod should i use, what lure should i use, where should i pick to go, top or bottom of water, float or no float,,on and on.....

I have literally backed myself up in a corner with all of these choices and worse yet, when someone says to you....get the race rods because they work for me,,,you get the race rods. Great examle for me is the Zen. I thought it was a magical light wind kite from everyone bragging how great it was. Got me excited. I got the Zen and took it out on a horrible day and had greats results with it and thought it waas magic. I few weeks later i took it out again on another bad wind day and struggled with it as well.

I think this is the point i am trying to make. Years before i got into revs there was only a handful to choose from and it all worked then. Worring about what flys best and when only makes things worse for me when it doesnt work after it did work. Dont get me wrong, there is "some" truth to the right basic setup, but in comparison, when i see you ask some of these questions, i feel like you are reading my mind and asking the same question i was going to ask.....

In response to your question.....in tough condition such as swirley changing winds...0-3mph...indoor rev outdoors, 4-10mph 1.5sle or b series with 3 wrap frame or race frame, 4-10 mph Zen with zen frame, higher winds i use vented b, very low winds i use 15' or 35' lineset, normal or high winds i use 75' or 120' lineset. mostly use 13" handles but have used 15" in very light winds or indoor handles with indoor rev. I try to look at bad winds as a challenge and fun but i have also thrown the handles down in disgust and lost my cool as well in very poor winds. Some people make it look very, very easy....

#10 lasapcheong

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 08:10 AM

We get quite a bit of those annoying inland big fluctuations of wind out here. Here's how I normally look at the following configurations side by side.

Full Sail/3 wrap vs Midvent sail/race rods
Midvent sail/3 wrap vs Fullvent sail/race rods

In fluctuating conditions, I'd normally go for a lighter sail with heavier rods. I"d rather have lift at my disposal and deal with the intermittent gusts/pull compared to a "vent-ier" setup and having to struggle to pump/glide when lulls occur. Also, based on my personal preference of heavier brakes on my handles, a "lighter" and more powered up setting is necessary for myself.

Hope this helps..

-Darryl

#11 kwmf

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 08:53 AM

Since all my flying is solo, when I'm in doubt about conditions I just use a B2 now - solves all my problems :)

#12 stroke survivor

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 09:36 AM

Since all my flying is solo, when I'm in doubt about conditions I just use a B2 now - solves all my problems :)


Mumble, groan, gripe!!!! Posted Image Sounds like an answer to me!!!Posted Image

wayne from portland
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#13 Kitelife

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 06:18 PM

hey KWMF, i love all of your posts and we have answered a few of each others questions before which you have been a big help. After reading through the all of the replys i have come to realize that you may have the same disease as me. I have become a huge rev addict and i believe that we now simply have too many choices to choose from. My rev flying seems to have taken a turn for the worse and it now feels like an example of going fishing......

asking myself,,, how strong are the winds today? what linesest should i use? what pound test will be best? what handle lenght today? which rev should i fly,,1.5, Zen, B series, etc.? what rods should i use???? on and on.......

sorta sounds like which rod should i use, what lure should i use, where should i pick to go, top or bottom of water, float or no float,,on and on.....

There is little substitute for guessing at a kite choice, then making it work until it's just not enjoyable... More or less what quaa714 (Rich) said.

Two hours of making a vented B fly in 5-6 mph will make your Zen seem like a cruise ship in light winds. :)

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#14 kwmf

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:38 PM

Mumble, groan, gripe!!!! Posted Image Sounds like an answer to me!!!Posted Image


The B2's are awesome - massive wind range and huge overlap in those ranges ... takes some doing to pick the wrong sail

#15 JasonOsteo

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:07 AM

My early setups for Rev flying were:-

0-3mph - Book and a cup of coffee, enjoy being outside.
4-10 mph - Rev 1, 'revolution equipped' T300 frame, 100' spektra.
11-15 mph - Rev 1, 'revolution equipped' T300 frame, 100' spektra.
16-20 mph - Rev 1, 'revolution equipped' T300 frame, 100' spektra.
20-25mph - Rev 1, 'revolution equipped' T300 frame, 100' spektra, and grippy shoes.

25+ mph - coffee and book in the car/cafe waiting for the wind to drop.

After getting a Rev II - 7+mph - Rev II 80' lines

If you want a kite to cover a large range, the B2 has to be it. Any problems past that are 'user error'.
People are like Slinkys. Basically useless but fun to watch falling down stairs.




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