21 replies to this topic

[Aerochic]

Just a little reminder to our US fliers to get out and vote on Tuesday! Most polling places are open from 7am to 8pm.

Sadly, there are no candidates representing the Rev Party, so we'll have to make the best choices we can.

[Scott_of_melnsct]

I voted last week.

We could draw some serious FBI attention with a group called the Revolution Party.

[AldenMiler]

Vote or be quiet!

I'll be voting tomorrow.

-Alden

[Love2fly]

Vote or be quiet!

I'll be voting tomorrow.

-Alden

Hi Alden-

You are sooooooo right!!!!

If you don't voice your opinion by voting, why "B & M" about what's happening?

[bartman]

Yes please get it done so the rest of us can stop hearing about it and start hearing around the results for the next two years.

Seriously, your politicians spend way too much time trying to hold onto power/get the power back than actually being productive for the people while they are in power. It's like a never ending election campaign.

IMHO looking in since we hear way too much of it on the news here and not intended to start any flames about this party or that party.

Bart

[Aerochic]

We could draw some serious FBI attention with a group called the Revolution Party.

OMG, I think anything political with the word "Revolution" attached to it would send the government into an absolute tizzy!

your politicians spend way too much time trying to hold onto power/get the power back than actually being productive for the people while they are in power. It's like a never ending election campaign.

Yup, it's disgusting, Bart. Once this election cycle ends I'm sure the presidential campaigning will start even though it's 2 years away.



At any rate...if you don't vote, you don't have voice.

[ahofer]

Pleased to see we are studiously avoiding political arguments here.

But we could argue about whether voting is either rational,

http://www.nytimes.c...freak.html?_r=1

or can reflect public preference (not if there are more than two choices)

http://en.wikipedia....ibility_theorem

The above notwithstanding, I was the 11th person to vote at my polling place this morning!

[Jeepster]

Already voted ... 23rd of September. In Illinois, we vote early and often!

Cheers,
Tom

[Andy S.]

Why bother voting yourself, when Diebold will do it for you?

All the best
Andy S.

[Laurel of MelnSct]

Vote or be quiet!

I'll be voting tomorrow.

-Alden

I can't vote. Do I still have the right to complain?

[HedgeWarden]

I can't vote. Do I still have the right to complain?

You have the right to complain, but nobody will listen to you.
If you had voted, there is a 64.7% chance that you will feel your vote did not count.

If Bartman has an idea for a better political system than our precious US system, OMG, please share it with us. Maybe if Canada invaded and freed us like the US does to other benighted countries around the world, we might, just might, end up with some rational political discussions in place of the spin, half-truths, and slanders that pass for discussion down here.

And if this betrays my own political leanings , JB may please delete it.

Anyway, vote I must and vote I did - by mail here in Washington state. Provides a paper record in case there are disputes, unlike some of the voting machines that have been sold to some states. A minor inconvenience with mail-in ballots is that final results are delayed.

Regarding the voting machines (Diebold and all others), quite a few years ago I joined the group of computer scientists and experts that requested all such machines have a paper record that the voter could check for accuracy. This would allow recounts, and even if the voter did not check the paper trail, it would deter fraud just knowing that a voter might check and find an inconsistency.

Diebold did not want to provide paper trails and government entities did not want to pay for them. Amazingly, Diebold used the fact that recounts would not be necessary (precisely because they would be impossible) as a benefit.

They also refused to expose their software to scrutiny citing proprietary rights. That amazed me, having worked developing software for government contractors such as Boeing and ITT for decades. All the code we developed was government property, and thus basically in the public domain except for any security concerns. No contract for voting machines should ever be let without the requirement that the code be open for public review!

There are other issues that ire me about voting machines, but they can be interpreted as partisan - not appropriate here.

Sorry for the digression, Laurel - YES you may complain. That will set you on the path to making wiser decisions when you may vote.

[Aerochic]

Hedge, Laurel isn't old enough to vote yet. I'm sure you didn't know that.

Regardless...

Laurel, I think it's great that you care so much! Most folks your age pay little attention to such things. You're free to complain until you can vote for yourself.

[Dano]

Laurel isn't old enough to vote yet. I'm sure you didn't know that.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was thinking she might have been a felon.

Edited by Dano, 06 November 2010 - 10:16 AM.

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

I can't vote. Do I still have the right to complain?

God I hope so. You complain as much as you like about who or what you feel the need to.

Without free speech there can be no democracy. Peter Pan (or more accurately, J. M. Barrie) said "Every time a child says, ‘I don't believe in fairies,’ there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead."

Bob says every time somebody denies somebody else’s right to free speech, democracy dies, just a little bit, and if nobody complains those little bits start to fester.

I am not prepared to say weather or not I believe in fairies but I am more than happy to say that I support your right to express any opinion you damn want.

<Bob will now put away his soap box>

[HedgeWarden]

I should add...

It is great, Laurel, that you are interested in politics. In a democracy, it is important that every voter take the time to examine the issues before voting. Ideally, an objective analysis is preferred - look at all sides (there are more than two, generally), but ignore 98.3% of the ads during the pre-election frenzy.

Sites like FactCheck can be very useful in sorting facts from half-truths and pure rhetoric. Newspapers, although they may have a political bias one way or the other, generally also provide somewhat objective background analysis of the issues. Everyone has a right to an opinion - but too often the opinion is not informed, but based on neat sounding sound-bites or slogans instead of facts.

It is work, but it makes your complaints (and later your votes) more informed and to the point.

Whew - sorry, sounds like a lecture. Again, congratulations for being interested and having an opinion!

[HedgeWarden]

Hedge, Laurel isn't old enough to vote yet. I'm sure you didn't know that.

Regardless...

Laurel, I think it's great that you care so much! Most folks your age pay little attention to such things. You're free to complain until you can vote for yourself.

Yes, I did not know that for sure, but I assumed so. But she is also wise enough to listen to bits of cranky opinion from us old codgers, and re-framing them into a useful path for her generation.

Oh, and you may complain after you reach the age to vote (only if you vote)! You must be prepared to be outvoted very often if you think for yourself.

If you do not want to be outvoted, then check the polls close to the election date, and vote with the poll predictions. But that does not sound like you, Laurel.

[Dano]

[quote name='HedgeWarden' date='06 November 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1289092254' post='75014']
If you do not want to be outvoted, then check the polls close to the election date, and vote with the poll predictions. /quote]


[size="4"][size="4"]If you're going to suggest doing that Howard, then what's the point in voting ? ?[/size]


[/size]

Edited by Dano, 06 November 2010 - 06:34 PM.

[Aerochic]

It is great, Laurel, that you are interested in politics. In a democracy, it is important that every voter take the time to examine the issues before voting. Ideally, an objective analysis is preferred - look at all sides (there are more than two, generally), but ignore 98.3% of the ads during the pre-election frenzy.

Sites like FactCheck can be very useful in sorting facts from half-truths and pure rhetoric. Newspapers, although they may have a political bias one way or the other, generally also provide somewhat objective background analysis of the issues. Everyone has a right to an opinion - but too often the opinion is not informed, but based on neat sounding sound-bites or slogans instead of facts.

It is work, but it makes your complaints (and later your votes) more informed and to the point.

This is great advice not just for Laurel, but Everybody! :clap:

[HedgeWarden]

[quote name='Dano' date='06 November 2010 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1289097146' post='75015']
[quote name='HedgeWarden' date='06 November 2010 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1289092254' post='75014']
If you do not want to be outvoted, then check the polls close to the election date, and vote with the poll predictions. /quote]


[size="4"][size="4"]If you're going to suggest doing that Howard, then what's the point in voting ? ?[/size]


[/size]
[/quote]

Sorry, Dano - my sarcasm did not come through clearly.

Context is important. You have demonstrated the political technique of taking a quote out of context to change it's meaning.

You have also demonstrated why I am not a politician - a politician must be extremely careful to avoid sarcasm, parody, irony and such devices because they will be taken out of context to attack them.

Your question is cool with me, though - my sense of humor often misses the mark.

Your point is well taken.

Edited by HedgeWarden, 07 November 2010 - 05:09 PM.

[--Pete]

Where is the "that's irony/sarcasm" smiley?