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#141 david ellison

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:11 AM

Another concept maneuver is now available at: http://gyraphicdesign.com/Super16
Again, will it work in real life? If it does then this one might be a better one to train on first, before trying the Cross Thread.

Sorry, this one is not completed at this time for the return to the original position. I will do it at a later date if it proves feasible.


John - not sure about the practicality/feasibility of either of these moves unfortunately.
The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.
This new one would also need a huge vertical window to pull it off - in excess of the 10 kite ceiling.

#142 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:23 AM

John - not sure about the practicality/feasibility of either of these moves unfortunately.
The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.
This new one would also need a huge vertical window to pull it off - in excess of the 10 kite ceiling.


I think that David is probably right but I wonder if a little lateral thinking may be in order here. I was wondering how to 'set up' an attempt on the move as demonstrated by John, as in the two eights. It then occurred to me that 'the thread' may be more viable 'on the diagonal'. 'Windscreen Wipers' are not so far away in my view.

It may be best to leave the more 'adventurous' moves for the time being and focus on the ones that we know are flyable. <grins>

Felix

#143 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:17 AM

I think that David is probably right but I wonder if a little lateral thinking may be in order here. I was wondering how to 'set up' an attempt on the move as demonstrated by John, as in the two eights. It then occurred to me that 'the thread' may be more viable 'on the diagonal'. 'Windscreen Wipers' are not so far away in my view.

It may be best to leave the more 'adventurous' moves for the time being and focus on the ones that we know are flyable. <grins>

Felix

This is precisely why I have chosen to call them concepts. The diagonal version is what I first thought of, however I found it a bit more difficult to animate. I think I will place these two concepts on ice for a while and let us all just think about, maybe try simplified variations or what ever.
Now I will get myself back onto the diamonds and do some variations that have been mentioned here. Let's see, Gary mentioned something yesterday, I think Felix had mentioned some variation.
I'll just have to go back and review this thread quickly and see what was there. If you all have more ideas on Diamond variations, please say it or repeat it again.
Thank you all so much for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated and inspiring.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#144 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 08:40 AM

This is precisely why I have chosen to call them concepts.
<snip>


John,

The process of animating the moves potentially offers insight which would not be available to fliers.

If we go back to the 'Radar' which was a rotation around the lower (or upper) kites could you attempt to draw a thread where the left two columns set off on the diagonal just slightly ahead of the right two columns? There may be a case for making a 'stop point' where the kites are threading. It may be a square. The 'Radars' may need to be vertical!

A slight 'shuffle' into line may be required at the outset for the columns either side.

Felix

#145 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 09:34 AM

John,

The process of animating the moves potentially offers insight which would not be available to fliers.

If we go back to the 'Radar' which was a rotation around the lower (or upper) kites could you attempt to draw a thread where the left two columns set off on the diagonal just slightly ahead of the right two columns? There may be a case for making a 'stop point' where the kites are threading. It may be a square. The 'Radars' may need to be vertical!

A slight 'shuffle' into line may be required at the outset for the columns either side.

Felix

Do you mean a 180 radar where half the kites start from the left and the other half start from the right threading between each other at zero.
Then maybe continuing down the opposite sides, 90 on each side followed by a return back to their start point.
Or maybe at zero doing steps 3 and 6 of the Dosey-Do and return to their start point.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#146 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 10:55 AM

Do you mean a 180 radar where half the kites start from the left and the other half start from the right threading between each other at zero.
Then maybe continuing down the opposite sides, 90 on each side followed by a return back to their start point.
Or maybe at zero doing steps 3 and 6 of the Dosey-Do and return to their start point.


John,

How about this attached by way of an answer?

Felix

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  • diagonal thread.jpg


#147 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:14 AM

John,

How about this attached by way of an answer?

Felix


Followed by...

Felix

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  • diagonal thread 2.jpg


#148 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:22 AM

Followed by...

Felix

Do you mean they slide horizontally, in a threading fashion, together to form the parallel zig-zags?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#149 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:27 AM

Do you mean they slide horizontally, in a threading fashion, together to form the parallel zig-zags?


Flying forwards...

Felix

#150 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:33 AM

Flying forwards...

Felix

Sorry, I must have fried my brain yesterday flying in the sun all day.

I'll have at it and we will see what comes out. It might be what you were thinking or even something else that you might like.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#151 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:46 AM

Sorry, I must have fried my brain yesterday flying in the sun all day.

I'll have at it and we will see what comes out. It might be what you were thinking or even something else that you might like.


I'll add my sorry as I had then pictured the right columns being the ones starting ahead in the move contrary to how I had described it initially.

Felix

#152 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:01 PM

I'll add my sorry as I had then pictured the right columns being the ones starting ahead in the move contrary to how I had described it initially.

Felix

I think I will have a slight variation in the timing in that the right columns moves at a slightly different speed as the left columns.
Should I try starting this from the ground with the outer kites moving at varying speeds faster then the inner kites?
Or, should I start it from columns already in the air?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#153 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:12 PM

I think I will have a slight variation in the timing in that the right columns moves at a slightly different speed as the left columns.
Should I try starting this from the ground with the outer kites moving at varying speeds faster then the inner kites?
Or, should I start it from columns already in the air?


I anticipated a different start time but i think that the flying speed should be the same for the best effect.

Edit. A small shift in the vertical position should be enough.

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 14 November 2010 - 12:14 PM.


#154 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:30 PM

I anticipated a different start time but i think that the flying speed should be the same for the best effect.

Edit. A small shift in the vertical position should be enough.

Felix

Fine, I will create a vertical shift with all starting at the same time moving exactly the same distance.
This is considering that I am of course starting from the vertical columns and not from the ground.

Do you have a name for this maneuver yet? If not, how about zig-zag?

I am already visualizing this moving on into a diamond, maybe as the base figure.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#155 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:41 PM

Fine, I will create a vertical shift with all starting at the same time moving exactly the same distance.
This is considering that I am of course starting from the vertical columns and not from the ground.

Do you have a name for this maneuver yet? If not, how about zig-zag?

I am already visualizing this moving on into a diamond, maybe as the base figure.


Zig Zag would do fine. I think that holding the Zig Zag at the crossover would be good..

I would consider this to be a 'Diamond' based move.

Felix

#156 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:49 PM

Zig Zag would do fine. I think that holding the Zig Zag at the crossover would be good..

I would consider this to be a 'Diamond' based move.

Felix

OK, I am working on it now. I doubt I will have it done before you bed down for the night. Hopefully I will have the basis when you look here in your morning.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#157 Felix Mottram

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

OK, I am working on it now. I doubt I will have it done before you bed down for the night. Hopefully I will have the basis when you look here in your morning.


And if we were to switch to the squares at the cross over point, where would we be then?

Thanks John

Felix

#158 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:53 PM

And if we were to switch to the squares at the cross over point, where would we be then?

Thanks John

Felix

I am thinking that you might want to break out of the crossed lines first, then you could work on 4 squares.
Or would you want to keep the crossed lines and move into the squares directly?

John

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#159 RevWizard

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 03:38 PM

Felix,

The start step of the zig-zag is now available.
As shown it would probably need 200 ft lines. I need to start it much closer to be more practical for 120 ft lines.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#160 andelscott

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:36 AM

The Cross Thread looks very high on the RichterScale of potential foul ups making it a huge risk in an arena presentation.


I can see that these manoeuvres look amazing, but - with the cross stop in particular - it looks as if there will be a lot of crossed/pulled strings... To me, the highest risk factor is instability (myself or another flyer) when we are all mutually dependent and there is no clean exit available. Visualising the line crosing and line twists is much more difficult with the 2 dimensional representations available to us, without a lot of real-life experience to back it up.

So I do like David's idea of a Richter Scale for moves - this could be very helpful for encouraging and developing novice teams and MegaFly opportunities. Defining the factors leading to difficulty and a Request For Comment on a Quad-line MultiFlier Richter Scale format could be spawned to another discussion thread? [I'd guess that STACK or other multi-line competition formats have developed some of these elements in the context of smaller numbers of participants.]
Andy




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