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#81 Stephen

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:13 PM

OK, I guess that we do not go there... I was thinking that you might mean the 'stop' moment with half the kites in a 'leading edge up' moment.

Felix


Hi Felix,
I think that you have to at least go through there in doing your working with phantoms Grand Swing Thru. Half way through each Trade (180 two kite pinwheel or whatever you know it as) each 2x4 will have to become a 1x8. In the 4x4 matrix that you star with there will be a conversion to a 2x8 then a 4x4, then whne the phantoms come in a 3x8 finally a 6x4. The 3x8 will consist of two 1x8 formations with 4 phantoms and 4 real kites and one 1x8 formation of 8 real kites.

Under normal conditions what is the limit of kites on a vertical orientation tip to tip? I expect the opportunities for 16 fliers are not that common so the need for some standardisation is required so that everything can be quickly conveyed.

I really do hope that something can be transferred from the square dance world that I know. We went through the standardisation stage in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that there might be more mileage working with 8 kites in a 4x4 matrix with 8 phantoms that are used when required. I will try and spend some time thinking about possibilities that do not turn lines into a rats nest.

Thinking about your "Sprocket figure" as well as it being an asymmetric exchange the diamond it is also very similar to part of a traditional dance Venus and Mars where you have right and left hand stars that cross over and cross back eventually leading to a promenade which I think you would call a 2x2 pinwheel? I need to have another look at the matrix/grid flying manual.

Cheers
Stephen

#82 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:38 AM

Hi Felix,
I think that you have to at least go through there in doing your working with phantoms Grand Swing Thru. Half way through each Trade (180 two kite pinwheel or whatever you know it as) each 2x4 will have to become a 1x8. In the 4x4 matrix that you start with there will be a conversion to a 2x8 then a 4x4, then when the phantoms come in a 3x8 finally a 6x4. The 3x8 will consist of two 1x8 formations with 4 phantoms and 4 real kites and one 1x8 formation of 8 real kites.

Under normal conditions what is the limit of kites on a vertical orientation tip to tip? I expect the opportunities for 16 fliers are not that common so the need for some standardisation is required so that everything can be quickly conveyed.

I really do hope that something can be transferred from the square dance world that I know. We went through the standardisation stage in the 70's and 80's. I suspect that there might be more mileage working with 8 kites in a 4x4 matrix with 8 phantoms that are used when required. I will try and spend some time thinking about possibilities that do not turn lines into a rats nest.

Thinking about your "Sprocket figure" as well as it being an asymmetric exchange the diamond it is also very similar to part of a traditional dance Venus and Mars where you have right and left hand stars that cross over and cross back eventually leading to a promenade which I think you would call a 2x2 pinwheel? I need to have another look at the matrix/grid flying manual.

Cheers
Stephen


Hi Stephen,

The 8 kites vertically is not an issue though it is approaching the practical limit. John was concerned about wing tip hits but that should not be a problem for 'experienced' fliers.

Quite a few of the 'figures' that are being flown are already global in that teams all around the world use them in their routines. The idea for the Super Sixteen is to explore what becomes possible with a large team of 'experienced' fliers.

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I am certainly looking forward to seeing what you can come up with in translating the figures that you know into something that we can fly.

Felix

#83 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:59 AM

The Bigot animation has been updated with play and pause buttons.
Now at: http://gyraphicdesig..._v07o-play.html

Edited by johnnmitchell, 07 November 2010 - 06:10 PM.
Updated URL 2010.11.07

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#84 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:14 AM

The Bigot animation has been updated with play and pause buttons.
Now at: http://gyraphicdesig...07n8b-play.html


That is very good in the context of what Stephen has been saying about the configurations that are set up along the way. Some of the 45 degree alignments look very interesting <grins>

Felix

#85 --Pete

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:30 AM

John,
Very cool; very smooth animation.

Just out of curiosity, why does the background drift back and forth?
--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#86 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 11:40 AM

John,
Very cool; very smooth animation.

Just out of curiosity, why does the background drift back and forth?


Forward and back? Strangely familiar...

Felix

#87 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:50 PM

John,
Very cool; very smooth animation.

Just out of curiosity, why does the background drift back and forth?

It is suppose to give the effect of the clouds moving however I have not perfected this yet.
I have tried going only one direction, but then there is a distinctive jump when it moves from finish to start.
I am still working on other ideas. Someday I will have it where I like it.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#88 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 12:58 PM

At present I am working on numbering each part of the maneuver, thus completing the Bigot.
When that is done I will shift back to the Diamond as my project for next week.
The following week, I plan finishing up the Wiper, or what ever David called it.
Then each week for the next few months I will work on another one each week.
At least I will try to do it, depending on my other work.

What I need for these next figures are:
1. the name of the figure, for cataloging properly.
2. a sketch or drawing of the figure with some explanation text. Just scan it and email it to me.

The priority will be set on a first come first served basis.

Week 1 - Bigot
Week 2 - Diamond
Week 3 - Wiper, or what ever David called it.
Week 4 open

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#89 Baloo

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 01:46 PM

Wonderfull animation John, runs well here. The previous ones were slow with me.

The Bigot would look good in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Even better if the directions were switched at the end of routine?

#90 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:36 PM

Wonderfull animation John, runs well here. The previous ones were slow with me.

The Bigot would look good in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Even better if the directions were switched at the end of routine?

The difference is that the first was an animated gif file. The second being a .swf file running from .html code.

I'll try to keep your thought in mind to add in later on. I just want to add numbers to the Bigot then I am going to refine the Diamond.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#91 --Pete

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 03:46 PM

Re: oscillating background

It is suppose to give the effect of the clouds moving however I have not perfected this yet.
I have tried going only one direction, but then there is a distinctive jump when it moves from finish to start.
I am still working on other ideas. Someday I will have it where I like it.



Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)


--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#92 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 04:04 PM

Re: oscillating background

Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)


<grins> And then we get to fly the kites...

The visualisations are fantastic. The practicalities are somewhat demanding. I'm looking forward to the next opportunity to fly 16.

Felix

#93 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 04:09 PM

Re: oscillating background



Well, the first bit, while it was moving in the first direction was VERY effective. I suppose making a background long enough to loop without a jump would add quite a bit of both overhead and file size. Any fractal generator capabilities in that animation program? If so, you could generate at the left and erase at the right.

Or how about layers from back to front: sky, clouds, ground, kites. Then the sky could stay still, clouds (as sprites like the kites) could move continuously in the next layer; a static ground in the next layer; and kites could move in the next layer. (I assume it has layers, since the kites appear in front of the clouds.)

Layers, no problem. I can create as many as I want.
The primary problem is to create the precise background. It would be a lot of time. The programs used are Adobe Illustrator CS5 and and Flash CS5 for the vector stuff and Photoshop CS5 for the pixel(raster) stuff. The background is the only raster.
I think a complete fade out to black at the end and a complete fade in at the start from black would be the easiest to accomplish. The thought of 50% gray or 100% white is also being considered.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#94 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 05:28 PM

At present I am working on numbering each part of the maneuver, thus completing the Bigot.
When that is done I will shift back to the Diamond as my project for next week.
The following week, I plan finishing up the Wiper, or what ever David called it.
Then each week for the next few months I will work on another one each week.
At least I will try to do it, depending on my other work.

What I need for these next figures are:
1. the name of the figure, for cataloging properly.
2. a sketch or drawing of the figure with some explanation text. Just scan it and email it to me.

The priority will be set on a first come first served basis.

Week 1 - Bigot
Week 2 - Diamond
Week 3 - Wiper, or what ever David called it.
Week 4 open

I am granting Felix the privilege of changing priorities when he feels it is appropriate.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#95 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:14 PM

The Bigot animation has been updated with numbers for the sequences.
There is also a name added along with Start and End.
The background is also animated differently.

The latest version is at: http://gyraphicdesig..._v07o-play.html

All older versions have been deleted.

I am now moving on to the next animation "Diamond" where I will added in the extra features of the Bigot animation.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#96 --Pete

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:18 PM

John,

You might want to check that link.
--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#97 RevWizard

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:19 PM

John,

You might want to check that link.

At about the time you responded, the link had already been corrected.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#98 Baloo

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:34 PM

Dont know what others think. I think it looks great witout trying to make the clouds move.

It would mean more work, and in my opinion distract from the image.

The clouds and ground look great as they are.

The only way to make it look better in my opinin (FWIW) is to make it loop till the stop button is clicked. The end of loop till it re-sets itself is a bit distracting.

But then hey, who am I to complain. Great job John.

#99 Murph

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 01:02 AM

Excellent piece of work John.

Looking forward to seeing the 'Diamond Geezer' next Posted Image

Chris

#100 dazlarsen

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 04:09 AM

Looks like things are moving in the right direction for a Super Sixteen routine.I am soooooooo looking forward to the new season,to see the routine or perhaps even have a go myself.I must say the animations being put together are great,big shout out to John.The animations make things look so much easier than trying to picture the moves in my head,while reading what to do.I will definately be keeping an eye on this thread,to see what progresses
All the best

Daz




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