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#261 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:04 AM

We have not had reason to use transitions like these previously. I was referring to calling the rows (1-4) to form diamonds in a vertical stack:-

/ \
\ /
/ \
\ /
/ \
\ /
/ \
\ /

or columns (1-4) to form diamonds in a horizontal stack:-

/ \ / \ / \ / \
\ / \ / \ / \ /

The blocks are as previously suggested:-

AA BB
AA BB
CC DD
CC DD

There are no moves to go to, just the identification of the group.

That being said, you have started to formalise the 'American Football' moves that I had in mind which could be very interesting indeed.

Felix

Really, I don't have a clue on the 'American Football' moves. I lived in Europe the majority of my life. I am more knowledgeable about football(known as soccer in the USA). I think it should be called World Football instead of Soccer.

Do you have a preference of how AAAA are laid out in the box format or is what I posted yesterday(early today your time) adequate?

I will work on you diamond basics late today(early tomorrow your time).

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#262 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:50 AM

Really, I don't have a clue on the 'American Football' moves. I lived in Europe the majority of my life. I am more knowledgeable about football(known as soccer in the USA). I think it should be called World Football instead of Soccer.

Do you have a preference of how AAAA are laid out in the box format or is what I posted yesterday(early today your time) adequate?

I will work on you diamond basics late today(early tomorrow your time).


The Rows to Block 'is' the 'American Football' thing!

I am not clear about AAAA. I had only used that letter based notation to define the four blocks in the 16 grid. <grins> Maybe we are talking at cross purposes here.

The basic diamonds would be good to see. I'm wondering if it will fit in with the more radical transformation you have already animated.

Felix

#263 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:57 AM

The Rows to Block 'is' the 'American Football' thing!

I am not clear about AAAA. I had only used that letter based notation to define the four blocks in the 16 grid. <grins> Maybe we are talking at cross purposes here.

The basic diamonds would be good to see. I'm wondering if it will fit in with the more radical transformation you have already animated.

Felix

Using the scheme in the drawing yesterday, I would suggest that:
AA - AA
AA - AA
would be:
01 - 03
02 - 04

I believe that the more radical diamond transformations will not be a problem. Last night I had already started sketching it out ideas, when my eyes could no longer look at the PC monitor.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#264 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 11:47 AM

Using the scheme in the drawing yesterday, I would suggest that:
AA - AA
AA - AA
would be:
01 - 03
02 - 04

I believe that the more radical diamond transformations will not be a problem. Last night I had already started sketching it out ideas, when my eyes could no longer look at the PC monitor.


We need a simple 'name' for the four blocks. The level of abstraction is obviously needed at a drawing level but on the flying field the fliers need to get the call without delay <grins>

I have attached very rough sketches of a couple of transitions I think could be quite useful...

Felix

Attached Thumbnails

  • 16 to Square.jpg
  • 16 to big ball.jpg


#265 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:22 PM

<snip>

I believe that the more radical diamond transformations will not be a problem. Last night I had already started sketching it out ideas, when my eyes could no longer look at the PC monitor.


I think that the Zig Zag may be a distraction. Here are some more rough sketches.

Felix

Attached Thumbnails

  • square to big circle-ball.jpg
  • big ball to 2 horizontal lines.jpg
  • 2 horizontal lines to 4 diamonds.jpg


#266 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:36 PM

I think that the Zig Zag may be a distraction. Here are some more rough sketches.

Felix


Oops, there was another image I wanted to post.

Felix

Attached Thumbnails

  • 16 grid to 2 horizontal lines.jpg


#267 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:51 PM

We need a simple 'name' for the four blocks. The level of abstraction is obviously needed at a drawing level but on the flying field the fliers need to get the call without delay <grins>

I have attached very rough sketches of a couple of transitions I think could be quite useful...

Felix

This seems very close to "7 - Ball" which is already on line.
I will look at it closer when I get home this afternoon.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#268 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:00 PM

This seems very close to "7 - Ball" which is already on line.
I will look at it closer when I get home this afternoon.


The final frames from 16 grid to ball are the same. The preamble is, I think a long way from the way the 16 grid has been established in practice which may be the source of a problem.

Lets look at the start sequence of the grid again...

Felix

#269 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:30 PM

In most all of these maneuvers it strikes me that where the different kites get isolated, and start and stop moving at different times, gives a less graceful appearance. Some thought should be taken to ensuring that at least two kites begin moving and stop moving at the same time. It might require that the kites move at different speeds, or it might require a completely different approach to getting the kites from one position to the next.

Just one opinion on the animations.


As John said, thanks for your input. I think that the objective has to be for quick transitions to be from one recognised 'figure' to the next recognised 'figure'. I favour the idea of 'morphing' so that the transition itself is effectively a 'figure' of controlled relative movement. The key to this is that the fliers know where they are starting from and where they have to get to.

I think that we may have to recognise the 16 grid as the starting point at this stage for the development and description of moves.

Felix

#270 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:38 PM

We need a simple 'name' for the four blocks. The level of abstraction is obviously needed at a drawing level but on the flying field the fliers need to get the call without delay <grins>

I have attached very rough sketches of a couple of transitions I think could be quite useful...

Felix

"Four Blocks"

No problem, I can do this for you.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#271 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:42 PM

I think that the Zig Zag may be a distraction. Here are some more rough sketches.

Felix


No problem, I can do this for you.

How would the two horizontal lines be formed, say from one horizontal line.
Groups 2 and 3 drop down while groups 1 and 4 move together over them?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#272 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:43 PM

Oops, there was another image I wanted to post.

Felix


No problem, I can do this for you.

I'll be back on this all in several hours. I have some other tasks that I must do now.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#273 --Pete

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:47 PM

Here's another way to go from 2 lines to 4 diamonds. It gives each kite a more-similar distance to move.

I particularly like that it goes from 2 lines -> apparent chaos -> 4 diamonds (appearing suddenly from the chaos)

Attached Thumbnails

  • 2line-4diamonds.jpg

Edited by --Pete, 30 November 2010 - 01:49 PM.

--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#274 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:49 PM

The final frames from 16 grid to ball are the same. The preamble is, I think a long way from the way the 16 grid has been established in practice which may be the source of a problem.

Lets look at the start sequence of the grid again...

Felix

We could work this out with three different approaches to the ball.
One from column groups, one from box groups and one from row groups.
What I had already done would be from box groups.

Renaming is very trivial, so if you wish to use different naming, please let me know. However once names are established, we should not change them.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#275 --Pete

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 01:55 PM

However once names are established, we should not change them.


Amen! This makes getting the names right extremely important. Get comments from people who speak other languages as well, so translations (or inadvertent similar sounding words) don't confuse things.

Remember the trouble that English-speaking cosmologists had when it was discovered that "Black Hole" meant something else entirely in Russian.
--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#276 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 02:07 PM

Here's another way to go from 2 lines to 4 diamonds. It gives each kite a more-similar distance to move.

I particularly like that it goes from 2 lines -> apparent chaos -> 4 diamonds (appearing suddenly from the chaos)


I think that we have line wrapping issues there but I would be happy to be proved wrong in the sense of organisation resolving from apparent chaos...

Thanks

Felix

#277 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 02:12 PM

We could work this out with three different approaches to the ball.
One from column groups, one from box groups and one from row groups.
What I had already done would be from box groups.

Renaming is very trivial, so if you wish to use different naming, please let me know. However once names are established, we should not change them.


Naming is not, in any practical sense, my call.

We need to get a consensus from the participants.

The ball from 16 grid just needs to be documented as we have identified it at this stage. Once it has been called on the field 10 times it will be written in stone... <grins>

Felix

#278 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 02:25 PM

<snip>
How would the two horizontal lines be formed, say from one horizontal line.
Groups 2 and 3 drop down while groups 1 and 4 move together over them?


I have to ask why it would be interesting to go from one horizontal line to two horizontal lines when there are so many other transitions available, apart, that is, from the "American Football" moves. <grins>

Felix

#279 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:52 PM

What I am thinking is back when you launch and how you would get to the dual horizontal lines.
Would you be launching from a grid formation on the ground or as a lined up, or both? Then form one of the basics.
Or would it be a random launch, get use to things and then form one of the basics and work from there.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#280 RevWizard

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 10:54 PM

Felix,

The columns to Ball(7.3) and Ball to 2 Horizontal lines(7.2) are now on-line. The Big Square to Ball(7.4) will be available in about 24 hours along with some of the others.

John M

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





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