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#1 Rigster

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:03 AM

I'm new to this forum so apologies if I'm repeating well trodden ground.

Are there any members on here from Cumbria in the UK?

After 4 weeks of waiting for the "right day" I flew my birthday present on Sunday. To say it was difficult would be an understatement. I'm not bad with a 2 lines but found the rev very difficult to keep in the air. The winds were light & gusty but it felt like I was doing brain surgery trying to coordinate everything. How long did it take you guys before you weren't embarassing yourselves (or am I just not cut out for this?). It felt a lot like a first driving lesson.

It's a new rev 1.5 SLE - not the SUL.

Any advice gratefully received ...

#2 Aerochic

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:14 AM

You'll get it. Honest!

If you're used to dual lines, then you're going to have to do a bit of reprogramming to your brain & hands. The movements are bit different (and opposite in some respects). I had the same problem at first! You might want to start by checking out some of John Baressi's tutorials that he's been working on. Go here and look at the menu on the right...

http://www.youtube.c...fe?blend=2&ob=1

Let me also state the obvious by saying that you should check to make sure all 4 of your lines are equal in length. That will mess up your day in a hurry if they aren't. :/

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#3 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:00 PM

Hang on in there newbie, I believe there are a quite a few good Rev fliers in your neck of the woods, we are mostly a very friendly bunch and it's my guess it won't be long before you are awash with invites "come and fly with us". Don't be afraid to drive a mile or two to meet up with folks, it will be time and petrol money well spent, you will come on more in an afternoon with an experienced pilot than you will in a month of Sundays on your own.

Welcome to the Darkside.
:big_starwars:
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#4 stroke survivor

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 09:14 PM

That's a good analogy, first driving lesson!!! :kid_smartass: Well it's out of the way and on to the next time!!:) You'll get it, just hang in there and keep trying!!:)

wayne from portland
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#5 Rigster

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:51 PM

Thanks for the encouragement - I'm definitely not going to give up on it. When it did what I wanted it to, albeit briefly, it was amazing. Inelegant but amazing.

I've watched all of the videos I can find, even the larks head one even though I've been using it for years as well as all of the tutorials I could find but nothing prepared me for how sensitive the kite was (I used the word "twitchy" on the day).

I guess what I was really asking was how long did it take others before they felt "in control" of their first rev as opposed to constantly reacting to what it's doing in the air? On the evidence of my first flight (read semi-controlled crash) there's something of a steep learning curve ...

#6 stroke survivor

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 08:13 AM

There's definitely a learning curve!! Getting together with some experienced pilots will shorten that curve!! :kid_smartass: If you keep at it, flying will become more of a test of control rather than reaction!! Locals: HELP THIS GUY OUT!!! :)

wayne from portland
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#7 spotter

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 05:46 PM

I guess what I was really asking was how long did it take others before they felt "in control" of their first rev as opposed to constantly reacting to what it's doing in the air?



I still dont feel in control when trying new stuff. Stick with it mate. I have been flying on and off for at least two years. The first 6 months I flew the rev solidly but now it is proberly once a month or so. It proberly took me about 10-20 hours before I could hold basic flight with out hitting the ground to oftan. Then a good 50-60 hours before I could hold any form of inverted hover (that being self taught as there are no other flyers near me). Like everything, some people learn quicker than others.
Trying to fly "Down Under"

#8 Rigster

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 10:52 PM

Thanks to everyone for the advice. The weekend's already looking like a washout - for those who've never heard of Cumbria there's a good reason why a large chunk of it is known as the Lake District. All that water has to come from somewhere.

I finding myself classifying days into "good flying weather" days & "bad flying weather" days - I must be hooked.

I'll let you know when I manage to gain some control over my rev.

Thanks again.

John

#9 BillLamm

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:23 AM

the time it takes to learn quads is a little different for everyone.. your 'learning to drive' analogy is very good.. how long before you could keep it between the lines, how long before you could drive with out tension in your neck and mild panic in your head.. I have had my rev for almost a year and even though I can tell it where to go and it does.. I cant always stop on a dime and back up as smooth as team flyers... inverted low glides are hard, I don't "own my hover" yet... so I know I am better but I know I have a lot to learn.. I can 'drive the car' but I am not ready for formula one racing yet.. :kid_smartass:
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#10 bartman

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 08:17 AM

One day you are going to be out flying for hours and suddenly it will hit you that you haven't crashed once or need to walk back to the kite to fix things.

Keeping it in the air just sort of sneaks up on you!


I echo what the others are saying if you can find other flyers. Flattens the curve and much more fun.

Bart

#11 REVflyer

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 09:23 AM

drive a hundred kilometers and save a hundred hours of intense frustration,
don't even worry about the cost of petro either, you'll have saved a bloody fortune in useless or broken items.

which kite design/size/wind range fits your style?,
what handle lengths seems the most appropriate for your needs?
any special additions that will cut down on the learning curve?
What length of lines should be used,... .and when?

How do you TUNE with leaders, adjust flying lines, put away your kite and wind-up the line-sets?

Different techniques exist that all reach the same goal/destination, . . . . you just need enough experience to determine what fits you perfectly.

That's why we are a family, so you can try out mine and I can abuse yours! Go meet up with other Quad-heads and master the wind my friend.

Don't wait 'nother weekend, buy some gortex clothes and boots, weather is only an issue if you're not prepared for it. Source out your closest coach and buy 'em breakfeast, they will become a lifelong investment in your flying passion.

#12 Rigster

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 01:23 PM

Is there any way, other than this post, of finding out if there are any fliers anywhere around where I live. The message I'm getting loud & clear is that I'm better off finding an experienced teacher. I've googled for clubs but the only thing locally is on Walney - wave hoppers with death wishes.

Again thanks to everyone for taking the time - it must be irritating dealing with fresh meat all the time.

God give me patience to learn to fly, but do it now!

#13 bartman

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:09 PM

You do NOT need to learn from anyone else, but it does help to speed up the process. Speeding up the process is what everyone is suggesting for the easiest route. It is not the only route...

... I learned by myself with the DVD and tutorials on line and tons of questions that I asked here. Don't worry about asking questions. It is not impossible to do it by yourself and it doesn't take forever.

Something that helped me progress a bit faster was, after I had the very basics such as up/down/left/right and turn somewhat under control I flew while explaining to someone else beside me what I was doing. My mind was so focused on his questions and showing him that I suddenly realized those basic moves where much smoother and under better control. You will hear a lot of people say, "fly more think less" and that is what they are describing. Get a feel for how it moves and let your developing muscle memory take over.

One more time, ask questions, post your progress, soak up the encouragement to keep you going when you feel you have run into a wall and just keep at it!

I suggest starting a new thread looking for the locals to maximize the coverage.

Bart

#14 Andy S.

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:51 PM

Trying to avoid gusty winds might be helpful.....My own first experience with a Rev was severely marred by the conditions at the time.

FWIW & All the best
Andy S.

#15 RevJB

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 05:39 PM

I was where you are now about two years ago. Below are my thoughts on converting from dual line to Rev. I still have a long ways to go, but I'm a lot closer to Owning my Hover.

Not to Posted Image, but flying with others is the fastest way to learn. An experienced flyer can watch you and give you an ah-ha moment that will save hours of time.

Make sure your lines are equalized. I've helped multiple new fliers discover one line is significantly longer than all others.

Vertical spars go on the back (without the bridle and logo). You probably know this, but it happens.

Try flying with more brake. Have the top lines be 2-4" longer than the bottoms. This makers it harder to launch, but eliminates much of the twitching. If you don't have knots in your leader, See Mike Kory's post below.
Once you have all the knots in the leaders, you can experiment with different amounts of brake to see what feels comfortable. Give it 10-15 minutes on a setting to get used to it before changing for the best comparisons.

When you put more brake on, you will need to give a decent pull and possibly a strong step back to launch.


Just to be clear:
It doesn't matter how long your bottom leaders are. It doesn't matter how long your top leaders are.
What matters, is the difference in length between the top and bottom leaders.

Choose the knots you mostly fly on.
1. Measure the distance from the handle to the knot on the top leader.
2. Measure the distance from the handle to the knot on bottom leader.
Subtract: #1 - #2.
That's how much brake you're using.

I found this diagram I had posted a few years back on the IKE forum. It's another way to measure your brake.
Posted Image

Another helpful hint. If you have the standard Rev handles, without knotted leaders, you can re-do them. Remove the top leader and untie it so that you have a long line instead of a looped line. You can tie knots and attach the leader without it being looped & larks-headed. Another old diagram from IKE:
Posted Image

We've being using leaders like that on 180GO! for years without a problem. Here's our leaders: (sorry for the over-sized photo, it's what was already online)
Posted Image


I usually fly on the last knot or second to last knot on the top leader, and the last knot on the bottom leader.
Depending on the flyer, I'll use the other knots when teaching a newbie or converting them from the "no-brake" to "brake" way of flying.



Fly in decent winds when you are first learning. Very low winds or gusty, swirling winds are like learning to drive on a stick-shift with a bad clutch.

Find a large field to reduce turbulence from surrounding buildings or trees. I started on a small field and had real problems down low. I went to a much larger field and the winds were much smoother.

Try 120' lines if you have been using 75'. The extra length gives you a small amount of additional time to think and the extra length may allow you to get above the turbulence to cleaner winds.

Do whatever you can to kick the dual-line pushing and pulling habit. Try locking your elbows to sides and fly only with your hands.

Try and keep your hands down low. Easier said than done.

Most of my early mistakes were from over control. The Rev needs small inputs and then you can return to neutral. Try simple up, down, hover midway and rocking left and right to get a sense of it.

If you can have someone shoot a video of you flying possibly from behind you to show body and kites and post, I'm sure there are plenty of flyers that will give you feedback.


To answer your original question: After three to four sessions in decent winds on a good field, I was getting comfortable and starting to make regular progress.


Lastly: Start thinking what color your vented will be. Posted Image Once you get a vented, you are set for almost any wind condition.

This has been a lengthy post and may include plenty of things you already know. Hopefully some of this will be useful. YMMV.
John

Posted Image

#16 Rigster

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 02:38 AM

Much useful stuff, I never considered changing the knot layout on the handles - I'm working on the assumption at the moment that, as supplied, the rev will be set up pure vanilla. I'm guessing the gusty conditions will have had a significant impact - in hindsight it probably wasn't the best conditions for an initial flight. After reading a bit more it occurs to me that I was using the SLE spars not the 3 wraps in very light gusty conditions which seems to be a bad idea anyway?

Bartman- I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression in my last post - what I meant by "better off" was "well advised", not an admission of defeat. Apologies if it read badly.

RevJB - many thanks - some very useful info, a lot of which hadn't occured to me.

A very supportive community ...

#17 RevJB

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:27 AM

Glad info was useful.

I did forget to add a line about spars. I know others may disagree, but I strongly suggest you avoid the SLE while learning and use the 3-wrap as your standard. Trying to fly someone else's kite with the SLE felt like trying to keep a truck in the air. The extra weight also adds momentum, potentially leading to more over control.

I've watched many Rev learn-to-fly lessons at festivals and have never seen a spar snap.

FYI, I got engaged on the shores of Lake Windermere. Someday I'll have to go back and bring the Revs (and my wife).

Cheers
John

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#18 Adam

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 05:46 PM

Hang in there and practice. Watch the videos that came with your kite, and also the John B tutorials on you tube. They will help. Very subtle control imputs will keep you aloft.

I spent almost two hours with my Rev 1.5 SLE in a 12 to 20 MPH wind. It was great. I had a few unplanned landings, but in only a few minutes I was doing controlled landings and launches, 360's both directions, figure eights, and flying back and forth accross the window. I did drop the kite straight out of the sky twice from top center of the window (it almost landed on my head)Posted Image . I even did a few inverted launches, and rolled the kite from an inverted landing to right side up.

I was so concerned that I was not going to be able to fly the Rev, but I think those worries are behind me now. I cant wat to get out there again with my Rev.

I am planning on going down to the Washington Monument and flying there on Sunday, and hope to see some other Rev flers there.

Lets hope for some good wind!

Rev rules! What am I going to do with all of my dual line kites?
"It was the wind Captain"

#19 stroke survivor

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:15 PM

Dualies make great dust collectors!! :kid_devlish:

wayne from portland
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#20 Baloo

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 09:51 PM

I am suprised you have had so few UK replies. Hi Bob. Hi Andy (I have not forgotten my promise to you about trying my Revs out, just pretty much had so little time off since. Off Tomorrow though. Not sure if my plans include kites yet)

I know there are a few Rev fliers up your way. One of them has recently become very busy with work. He is from Wigan (not too far from you?). Do be prepared to travel a bit to find other fliers. After all it is you that needs help. You will find it maks a BIG difference.

I travelled 3 Hours in FOUL (wind, rain, snow, hail) to spend a couple of Hours with John Barresi quite a few Years ago, wow it was SO windy, I only held his lines for a few minuites, then put one of my Revs up and it promptly pulled some knots through the sail.

Traveled over 2.5 Hours to a skills Weekend at Dunstable, 3 hours to spend a few Hours at Ainsdale. Then a few Kite Festivals, Portsmouth, Bristol, Weston and some others.

Pretty much the only reason that the folks yo see on Youtube etc are better then you (and me) is practice.

I fly mainly on my own, I think it has taken me quite a long time to tune into Revs, a difficult transition from Dualies for me. However now I mostly fly Revs. I had to buy a foil to get used to the handle movements for a quad line kite. It will all make sense. If you go it alone dont get frustrated.

There are many more Rev pilots in the USA, and I think that generaly they are more used to going longer distances to fly shoulder to shoulder.

I am sure more UK folks will pick your thread up. Best of luck. Keep in touch.




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