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how to make line sets


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#1 jose

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:31 AM

want to get a few line sets different lenghts and was wondering how hard is it to make...its more cost effective to but the bulk roll and a few winders and make yourself but dont know if this is something i can do as a beginner...any info or pics would be greatly appreciated...also sleeving or no sleeving

Edited by jose, 13 September 2010 - 10:33 AM.

if you ain't flyin', u ain't tryin'

#2 awindofchange

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:02 PM

Making your own linesets are very simple.

Some items that you will probably need:
Bulk Line
Sleeving Material
Sleeving tool
Kite Stakes (at least 2)
Winders
Marker
Scissors or Knife
Lighter

First, mark out the length of your lineset with the two (or more) kite stakes, put one stake on one end and the other at the other end marking about 1 foot longer than what your final length of your lineset will be. This extra length will be used for the extra line used to make the loops on both ends.

Sleeve one end of the bulk line (to sleeve or not to sleeve, that is another debate that is very search-worthy and will NOT be discussed here). Tie your loop in the sleeved end and slip it over the kite stake. Walk out your line, wrap it around the second kite stake and then walk the line back to your first stake. Walk your line about a foot past the first kite stake (again to make the loop). Cut the end, fuse it with the lighter, sleeve it and place it over the first kite stake. You should have two loops over the first kite stake and the line wrapped around the second. The line will probably be loose at this point.

Leave both loops around the first stake and walk to the second stake. Pull the lines tight against the first stake and stretch them out good. The amount of stretch depends on the strength of the line. Once the line has been sufficiently stretched, pull the line snug against the first stake and them place a mark across both lines at the exact length you want the line set to be. DO NOT CUT at this line!!! Instead, cut the line at the furthest loop point when pulled tight against the first stake. This should give you about 6-8 inches of line past the marked point on both sides. Sleeve the first line so that the sleeving material is centered on the measured mark. Use the second line to get the sleeving material centered evenly. Mark the sleeving so that you can do the same on the second line. Fold the line over at the mark, tie your loop and then cut off the remaining line sticking out of the end of the sleeving.

There, you now have a perfectly matched set of lines at your custom length. :) For a quad set, larks head both ends together, set off to the side and repeat the above for the second set. Once the second set is done, wind both sets up on your winder and your done!

This post is worth exactly what you paid for it. :)

Edited by awindofchange, 13 September 2010 - 10:20 PM.


#3 Theresa

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:53 PM

Sorry Kent....to each his own, but not how I do it.... I know I would pull those stakes out of the ground with a few heavy tugs.

and make sure you cut 18" past....IF you are making 3 more 12" loops, folded in half....you'll need 3 x 6" = 18"

and be sure and slide on the sleeving (if using sleeving) BEFORE you fuse the end with a lighter.....

and.....

Hmmmmm...I'm sure i've written this out somewhere.... ??

I'll have to go look.

#4 Theresa

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:01 PM

want to get a few line sets different lenghts and was wondering how hard is it to make...its more cost effective to but the bulk roll and a few winders and make yourself but dont know if this is something i can do as a beginner...any info or pics would be greatly appreciated...also sleeving or no sleeving


Actually, Jose, can you ask Scott to show you? He has made many a line set with me :) and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to walk you through it!

Theresa

#5 Dano

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:20 PM

I thought Kent explained it quite well...

and covered your point of disagreement too.
"Pull the lines tight against the first stake and stretch them out good."

burning a line before or after sleeving is really a moot point isn't it


But as you said. "to each his own" Posted Image


PLEASE, don't ask which line is better, Jose. Posted Image Posted Image

Edited by Dano, 13 September 2010 - 08:33 PM.


#6 awindofchange

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:20 PM

Sorry if my method is not as perfect as yours Teresa.

My method as described above has the two stakes 1 foot longer than the actual length of the set. The first line has a loop in it already, so pulling 12 inches past the second stake is plenty and doesn't waste a ton of line. When you make the second loop, it too is pulled 12 inches past the first stake, again leaving another foot on the other end plus a little extra after the second loop is tied. The way I figure, if you make 3 inch loops, that uses up approximately 8-9 inches of line (3 inches on each side of the loop, a half inch or so for the knot and about 3/4" on each end for the pigtails depending on how close you want to make it). There really isn't any need to go to a full 18 inches over...but if you have tons of line to waste then heck, go 24 inches or more.

Depending on the size of your sleeving and weight of line, you can fuse it either before or after you sleeve it. Normally I do fuse after sleeving when sleeving 200# line or heavier but for 150# and less, it doesn't really matter. I have done them both ways and never had an issue so whichever way tickles your fancy then have at it.

As far as ripping the stakes out of the ground when you stretch your lines...you obviously don't use the kind of stakes that we do here... sorry that I assumed that the user would have enough brains to stake the lines down with something stronger than a twig.

So, just to clarify the obvious.........
When staking your lines, make sure to use a stake that is strong enough to be pulled against. As most rev's use 90# line, it doesn't have to be something like a 1" rebar buried 20" into the ground....but it should be a fairly strong screwdriver or kite stake that can hold at least 90# of pull against it.

Obviously there are several ways to build line sets. The above is only my way of doing it but as always, YMMV.

When you dig out your writing and find more problems and issues with my method, please let me know so that I can be a better kite person. I am always willing to learn from the elder kite flyers. ;)

Edited by awindofchange, 13 September 2010 - 11:55 PM.


#7 andelscott

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:05 AM

Thanks all for this discourse. Whilst I try to get my head around the "loop allowances" in each method ...and the stakes separated by 1 foot more than the final line length required... :ani_giveup:

I'm assuming that the line stretching is achieved through of a steady pull rather than jerking action - but is the point of "stretch completed" discernible [other than through bitter experience]? For example, does it stretch noticeably at first, then progressively less until (in extremis) it snaps?
Andy

#8 Jeepster

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:47 AM

I'm assuming that the line stretching is achieved through of a steady pull rather than jerking action - but is the point of "stretch completed" discernible [other than through bitter experience]? For example, does it stretch noticeably at first, then progressively less until (in extremis) it snaps?


Point of order: Our flying line exhibits both stretch and creep. Since it's a form of plastic, the fibers/weave will permanently yield under load ... ie take a set and not return to its original length ... that's creep. In addition to creep, the line will elongate under load and return to it's original length when the load is removed ... that's stretch and can't be removed.

Said another way: When the line is new, you can pull on it with an increasing load and it will elongate in proportion to the load. However, when the load is removed, the line will not return to it's "off the spool" length. That's creep, and that's what we're trying to remove from new line when making a line set.

If you make up the individual lines independent of each other and don't use a scale to induce the same loads in each line, then you'll have various levels of creep in each line. That will mean lots of adjustment after you've flown for awhile. The alternative is to pair up the upper lines and the lower lines. Remove double the length of the line set off a spool (plus enough extra for all four loops.) Sleeve both ends. Place the loops over a stake/nail/post and stretch out the doubled over line. Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up. Since the sleeves/knots reduce the breaking strength by about a third, your 90# line will now break at about 60# of load. But, since the line is doubled, you can pull with 120# of force before the line will theoretically break. Pull and tug away with abandon ... tugging does seem to assist in increasing the creep. The closer you get to the breaking strength the less post-flying adjustment will be needed.

Now measure the line length plus one times the amount for your loops (don't forget an additional 1/2 inch for each knot you place in the sleeving.) Cut the line there, melt the exposed ends, and sleeve away. I use the sag method to get the lines even. You will be surprised at how much extra line you will cut away ... if you don't pre-creep your lines, this has to come out during the initial flying sessions.

Now make the remaining pair of lines the same way. If you measure the same length before cutting, this pair of lines will be close enough to the other pair for the initial usage. Remember that reasonable differences between top and bottom lines can be adjusted our with your pigtails. After flying in high winds and rotating the top lines with the bottom lines, make your final adjustments ... probably for the life of the lines.

I know it sounds annal, but I absolutely hate to futz with line sets at the flying field. This "work" is usually accomplished in the hallway of our local school during down times.

Now, has anyone seen my tin foil helmet?

Cheers,
Tom

#9 Theresa

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:43 PM

Now, has anyone seen my tin foil helmet?

Cheers,
Tom


I borrowed it! :)

#10 Theresa

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:44 PM

Never meant to cause an upset!! Calm down, it's just kites! Or rather...just string!

I updated and finally split off dual from quad:

http://thekiteshoppe...hp?showforum=54

Just my way, certainly not the only way!

:)

T

#11 play365

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:43 AM

Thanks all for this discourse. Whilst I try to get my head around the "loop allowances" in each method ...and the stakes separated by 1 foot more than the final line length required... :ani_giveup:

I'm assuming that the line stretching is achieved through of a steady pull rather than jerking action - but is the point of "stretch completed" discernible [other than through bitter experience]? For example, does it stretch noticeably at first, then progressively less until (in extremis) it snaps?





Andy you know full well that you get me to do your lines ? Posted ImagePosted Image
GARY




Posted Image

#12 Jeff

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:35 AM

I know it sounds anal...

You lost me at "creep."

:P

;)
CYuLf.jpg 0LPEo.png and ybuXm.png

#13 andelscott

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 12:53 PM

Andy you know full well that you get me to do your lines ? Posted Image:P


OK - I'll make 'em and then you can fix 'em! :P
Andy

#14 Jeepster

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:02 PM

You lost me at "creep."

:P

;)



I knew you'd understand the anal part ... remember posting this on a thread a few years ago?

"Just got a spool of spectra, and I'm making my 120' line set. I did one line, and I was a little anal about getting it exactly 120'. Posted Image I know it will stretch, after all.

Now the easier part will be making the other 3 to match. Posted Image "

Cheers mate,
Tom

#15 Jeff

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 02:08 PM

Yeah, but I've mellowed a bit since then.
CYuLf.jpg 0LPEo.png and ybuXm.png




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