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90# line vs 150#


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#1 bartman

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:18 AM

A funny thing happened on the way to WSIKF...

Well, not really, but comparing notes with Kite Cowboy later we noticed something about our line sets.

We both bought 90# sets from our local guy, but the 90# set I got from the Kite Shoppe at WSIKF is much thinner. We think that we actually have 150# sets even though Paul had the spool and it was marked 90#. Quite possibly a mistake from the supplier, but that is neither here nor there.

We thought we had 90# lines, probably did not and how we figured this is by how our lines tended to droop more than other people's lines and in the low wind we felt like we were trying to keep a brick in the air. I noticed this the most when Watty was easily staying up with a B-Std sail and I was losing altitude. Now, skill level aside Mark from the Flying Squad also felt my kite was "heavy" when he flew it.

I'm pretty sure the line weight was playing a factor in this.

How much difference would the two weights make overall? Let's pick Sunday as an example where the wind was getting quite light by mid afternoon.

Bart

#2 Kitelife

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:53 AM

iQuad uses 150# whenever our Revs start to get overloaded or pull a lot, usually anything over 18-20 mph... Slows the kite down in high winds, makes it quite a bit more docile and controllable, and the lines aren't singing like they'll break at any moment. :)

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#3 bartman

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:15 AM

So I should keep that set, which I was going to anyway, for higher winds. 10-4.

In light winds would the 150# lines make everything feel heavy to those that flew my sail?

Note, a reminder, that both Paul and I felt like we had a brick on the line during the light winds and the lines were one common denominator, skill level aside.

Watty, are you reading this? What were your lines on Sunday? It is when we attempted that pinwheel when I finally fell out of the air trying to turn over, but you hung there perfectly.

Bart

#4 Dean750

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:27 AM

But... to answer your question Bart, Posted Image

There is a HUGE difference between the two in light wind. You figure that the 150# line is almost twice the diameter of the 90# so even though I'm not positive, I'd guess they'd weigh almost twice as much. 150's create way more drag because of the above statements.
You mentioned one looked thicker than the other. I'm hoping that you know which is which now. But if you really want to learn what the difference each weight offers try with your std. sail in wind up to 10mph lets say. Fly the 90#. It'll be fast and I personally think a little to twitchy. Then try it with the 150# line. The kite should still have full power but less frame distortion and fly a little twitchier than a mid vent on 90#. But no where near as twitchy as a std sail.

Hope that helps a little.

Dean

#5 Kitelife

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 11:33 AM

Yes, 150# lines would make your kite feel like a dog in light winds.

John Barresi

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#6 Watty

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 02:03 PM

So I should keep that set, which I was going to anyway, for higher winds. 10-4.

In light winds would the 150# lines make everything feel heavy to those that flew my sail?

Note, a reminder, that both Paul and I felt like we had a brick on the line during the light winds and the lines were one common denominator, skill level aside.

Watty, are you reading this? What were your lines on Sunday? It is when we attempted that pinwheel when I finally fell out of the air trying to turn over, but you hung there perfectly.

Bart


I was using 90 lb Laser Pro Gold. If you compare 150 lb line next to 90 lb, you will notice some thickness differences. You will also notice that the 150 lb line is much more stiff than the 90 lb.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#7 Theresa

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:43 PM

even though Paul had the spool and it was marked 90#.

Bart


Bart....a question...does the spool say 90# Gold?

There is another LP 90# grade called Comp (Competition Grade) and it is 'fatter' and heavier looking than the 90# Gold.

T

#8 bartman

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:44 PM

I'll have Paul look at that. It's got me wondering as there is a considerable difference in thickness between what I got from you vs what I had already.

Bart



#9 kitecowboy

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:14 PM

doubled up it wont go through the sleaving i got from T.
Cowboy, rocks in your pockets couldn't hurt.

#10 Theresa

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:32 PM

doubled up it wont go through the sleaving i got from T.


So it's probably not 90# Gold :(

The sleeving (bridle line) that I gave you is LP 100#. It will fit on LPG 90# and LPG 50#. I have to use LP 170# Bridle to fit on LPG 150#.

#11 Jeepster

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:12 AM

You figure that the 150# line is almost twice the diameter of the 90# ...


Opps, thinking diameter is a common misconception. Strength comes from the cross sectional area of the line not the diameter. Theoretically, 150# line has 150 / 90 = 1.67 times the area. Thus, the diameter of 150# line is only about 1.29 times as large as 90# line.

The main point is still the same, 150# line is 67% heavier and 29% thicker, so it slows up the kite.

Cheers,
Tom

#12 bartman

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:29 AM

I certainly do not want to imply line weight is responsible for lack of skill in lower winds.

I'm certain, though, that Paul and I do not have 90# lines after doing some comparing of notes. Well, unless it is that "other" LGP stuff Theresa mentions, but we can't be sure. Interesting that on the trip back all these little things came up in conversation to start building a bigger picture. I've wondered why there seems to be so much more droop in my lines for quite some time and how they seem to catch side winds so easy. It will be interesting to see how the new set compares in my choppy winds.

Bart

#13 RevWizard

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:23 AM

snip...
We both bought 90# sets from our local guy, but the 90# set I got from the Kite Shoppe at WSIKF is much thinner. We think that we actually have 150# sets even though Paul had the spool and it was marked 90#. Quite possibly a mistake from the supplier, but that is neither here nor there.
snip...

Did it occur to you that you might have received some other brand of Dyneema/Spectra lines and not LPG? There is some really cheap stuff out there that is quite thick for same strength as LPG or Shanti. Many are not woven as tight. They wear out faster and break much sooner then LPG or Shanti.
I fly primarily Shanti and have never had a Shanti line break. Most of my lines are 15 years or older. For team flying I shift to LPG because LPG will sometimes lock up Shanti lines when mixed.
I had one of my first line sets cut be a fighter. I think they were Spider line which is no longer made for kites, just for fishing.
I also was provided some Climax lines directly from Climax. I broke several of these, landing on my bum, when stretching them before the first flight. I gave them back with a no thank you.

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#14 bartman

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 10:57 AM

I'm sure it was LGP. He's a friend of ours and would not knowingly sell us something we didn't ask for. It has held up well, just now starting to figure out it is different. We may have never put it together had we not noticed differences at WSIKF.

Bart

#15 bartman

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:54 AM

Took a couple photos. Clearly a difference, but is it that much of a difference? If I stretch them both the difference is even less.

However, the thicker stuff will NOT go through the sleeving that Theresa uses when Paull tried to use it on these, apparently, thicker lines. Now maybe Theresa has a secret, but just saying for comparison sake.

Bart

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