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#21 Kitelife

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:25 PM

We only use our Zens in the extreme light conditions... No "different conditions" to account for, we go to the 1.5 Pros in anything over 2 mph, finer control and more agile.

However, we use a Race Frame with 2 wrap center in our Zens... We needed a little less flexibility for our active, push and pull style.

For a flat footed (non-dynamic) flier, the Zen rods are probably superior as they'll capture more wind without any foot/arm movement. ;)

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#22 kwmf

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 11:34 PM

Thanks, I'm working on moving about. I'm not completely flat footed, but nowhere near as active as ou guys - well, not that fast and flowing anyway.

Since I'm still learning WRT which frames for which conditions (I usually get nervous and switch up early, switch down when things don't stay in the air), can you explain the effects of the hybrid frame vs a single spar all the way?

I also haven't seen much on the Zen rods, how are they different to the Race Rods?

Thanks, Steven




#23 REVflyer

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:50 AM

the zen tubes aren't laid-up as wrapped around a mandrell, . . . more like a weaved pattern. It's all a big industrial secret, trying to stop the copycats from the orient!

The race tubes have a different flex, I have lots of experience with these sticks. The zen frame I only have in two kites the Zen itself and a 1.5 B-series full sail. I'd probably push the zen frame into higher winds than the race frame if I had to choose. I've broken lots of race frame sticks, mostly thru a temporary loss of brain function, like tapping a concrete seawall diagonally. They weren't designed for that kind of abuse regardless of how lightly you think you're doing it!

John's position is also my own, use the Zen until the appropriate conditions arise for the 1.5s, then switch, faster flight and more responsive tricking

#24 kwmf

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:46 AM

Oh I'll definitely switch up before breakage, be it frame or kite - I'm a bit of a chicken right now given my inexperience and the exchange rate.

I'm pretty settled on getting a Zen now, I'm just curious regarding the hybrid frame and the zen rods since I don't have experience with either.

If I'm understanding correctly, I get the impression the Zen rods flex more and that's why you would run them into higher winds due them being more prone to flexing than breaking. I'm also thinking that the 2 wrap center + race frame is there to provide a stiffer center while still providing as much weight reduction as possible with plenty flex (altho not as much as the zen frame).

Am I on the right track with my understanding?

#25 stroke survivor

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:43 PM

Oh I'll definitely switch up before breakage, be it frame or kite - I'm a bit of a chicken right now given my inexperience and the exchange rate.

I'm pretty settled on getting a Zen now, I'm just curious regarding the hybrid frame and the zen rods since I don't have experience with either.

If I'm understanding correctly, I get the impression the Zen rods flex more and that's why you would run them into higher winds due them being more prone to flexing than breaking. I'm also thinking that the 2 wrap center + race frame is there to provide a stiffer center while still providing as much weight reduction as possible with plenty flex (altho not as much as the zen frame).

Am I on the right track with my understanding?


Hope you get some info regarding that question!!:kid_smartass: Still deciding on frame acquisitions myself, so am interested in every ones answers!! Only have SLE and 3wrap LE and am considering a race frame for a full vent 1.5!!:) Also wondering what frame will help the performance of my older Rev I with 4 wrap spars?:blink:

Edited by stroke victim, 02 July 2010 - 08:45 PM.

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#26 Aerochic

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 07:51 AM

Still deciding on frame acquisitions myself, so am interested in every ones answers!! Only have SLE and 3wrap LE and am considering a race frame for a full vent 1.5!!:) Also wondering what frame will help the performance of my older Rev I with 4 wrap spars?:blink:


Race frames are da bomb, Stroke. :)



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#27 stroke survivor

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 09:20 PM

Race frames are da bomb, Stroke. :)




Sounds good - now if I just had some extra cash!!:kid_cussing:

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#28 kwmf

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 10:26 AM

I definitely like flying my race rods ... and I'm nowhere near appreciating the subtle differences on offer yet.

When I got them I called them my anti-gravity rods ... but I ended up flying in even lower winds and now I'm after the Zen Posted Image



#29 kwmf

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 04:24 AM

However, we use a Race Frame with 2 wrap center in our Zens... We needed a little less flexibility for our active, push and pull style.

For a flat footed (non-dynamic) flier, the Zen rods are probably superior as they'll capture more wind without any foot/arm movement. Posted Image


I just realised something - what you're saying is that the stock Zen and rods are will probably fly better than your setup as long as one has less skill and doesn't try fly it your way. Posted Image

So if I fly the 1.5 like you guys and the Zen like a statue I should be good to go .... LOL

#30 Bazzer

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 06:43 AM

I just realised something - what you're saying is that the stock Zen and rods are will probably fly better than your setup as long as one has less skill and doesn't try fly it your way. Posted Image

So if I fly the 1.5 like you guys and the Zen like a statue I should be good to go .... LOL


The Zen rod is most definitely for the flat foot. It will allow you to get up in the vapors.
For the more active two wrap center and race is a lightweight option.
My current favorite combo is still a two wrap centre with 3 wrap leading edge and race rod verts.
Which is what the first prototypes were flown and tested with.
Then Ben made up the Zen rod which allows flat foots to fly in the low stuff.
Which lets face it is what we all wanted.
Personally I prefer a bit more weight in the leading edge with a softer flex than the race.
Makes for a more positive feel and weighty axles.
In the low wind fly what makes you feel good.
The Zen frame is an excellent starting point.
Over time you will find your magic combination.
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#31 kwmf

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 07:16 AM

The Zen frame is an excellent starting point. Over time you will find your magic combination.


Thanks for the info ... I'm starting to get a little bit of an idea on the different frame sets now that I have them all for my 1.5, but I haven't gotten into mixed frames or the Zen frame and I am not flying well enough yet to get the difference.

Basically that says to me the Zen frame is indeed a good starting point for me. I don't mind flying it flat footed while I learn to fly the 1.5 more actively - right now I don't really care how I fly as long as I can fly Posted Image

As soon as Rev gets back to my local shop with some info and comment on my desired color pattern, you should have some work from me. Once I get good enough to appreciate the Pro, you'll probably have more work from me in the same or a similar color scheme.Posted Image

Steve




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